We will gladly take Suzuki off your hands if you dont want him anymore

changing GM and coach will not change things, they been a "off the rush" team for well over a decade, it is why creative talented players crap out in MTL and why they cannot develop their prospects, your not allowed to have fun in MTL if your a player, remember when suban was reprimanded for doing the low fives with Price when they won....

KK is trending in the bust category, Suzuki is improving but how long until MTL puts a stop to that and CC has not played enough in MTL for them to wreck him yet.

@Zuki9797
@GMS
@leemer
And anyone else they won’t let me mention

Kk has been one of the only good forwards the last couple of games. Subban was a hot dog and a distraction. Think your being a little too hard on mtl, there drafting has been ****

Id suggest picking up puck moving D, like Dunn and deangelo and ghost. play romanov top 4. Get rid of danault, tatar, lehlonen, armia. restructure the top 6. give KK stable linemates and make sure suzuki marries caufield. sign RNH and play him in the top 6. This team is close, but the pieces around the core are wrong. the reason we attempt off the rush goals is because we don't have enough solid puck movers. you arent getting rid of weber, so don't even suggest that. get d-men who make high risk high reward plays. you have an elite goalie in net so don't cry when turnover happens because thats a part of the new game.

I think KK is actually still pretty promising, once he’s fully grown and adds some pounds he will be force, the skill is there already. Suzuki is good yes, but I don’t get the crazy hype train on him, people saying they wouldn’t move him if it was to get a player like Eichel? Lol that’s insane. Team is just so meh, don’t have any game breakers. Gally may be hurt but he’s been horrible, danault knows his days are numbered and plays like it, Tatar too. Not even gunna get into drouin when he is in the line up, so soft and just not good, and Weber is an absolute anchor back their, he can’t retire soon enough. So in short we need an actually top line forward, and a top pairing puck mover, easy to get ya I know.

Yup,
Suzuki has talent but his work ethic and decisions drive me mental. I’d trade him for Eichel right now if I could. Just hope we somehow find several things in the offseason. Better lw, a top end player and some more size and grit upfront

Hopefully MB or whoever makes some big moves.

What do you expect? This team doesn't have a superstar forward and I certainly wouldn't consider Weber to be a superstar anymore. This is a team full of 2nd and 3rd liners. This is exactly what you get for icing this roster.

That’s kinda my point. We need high end, smart players. And especially some more size and grit upfront

Those are typically homegrown, unless MTL wants to trade Suzuki, Romanov, KK and a 1st for Eichel.

Not even trending... he IS a bust. If you're drafted top-3, you're expected to be a 1st line C, maybe a 2nd line C or worst case scenario get moved to a 1st line Winger.

Unfortunately for KK, he's a carbon copy of his older Finnish friend, Joel Armia who was taken later in the first round at 16OA which is probably where Jesperi should have/would have been taken if it weren't for MTL drafting based on need and reaching for him. IMO He will never score more than 20goals and is prob gonna max out at around 45-50pts for his career highs. Definitely not good enough but what can you do when both times we drafted 3rd OA, the draft classes were probably the weakest at Center.

It truly is sad tho that at the same point in their respective careers, I feel as tho Galchenyuk was further along and made more of an impact than Kotkaniemi does.

Kaprisov is 24 and people gave him time? Suzuki is a year older than kk and caufield is only 6 months younger. How in the ****ing world is a 20 years old a bust. Kk doesn’t have consistent playing time or line mates and is still pretty physically immature. Give the kid a chance. Can’t even drink in the states

Grit and determination do not win championships, skill does. This is true in every sport. The highly skill team more often than not, wins. Sure, you might get your occasional Cinderella story, or a miracle coach being inspired, but those things are as rare as they come. The fact of the matter is, the skill level, game intelligence and creativity on this team as a group is low to average, very average. But the GM is one those who like many, is fooled by grit, determination and "character". You can have all those things as much as you want, without any actual skill, you just like Cinderella, would be waiting for a fairy godmother to magically transforms your reality into a dream.

Lastly, I've said here before, you do not win by trying to 'win' every year. This team should be looking at its next crop and understand, that's its veterans have had their day. We should be looking at getting as many blue chip 2017 to 2020 drafted prospects as much as we can, (not draft picks, I do not trust this gm to draft well) but many are too emotional entangled with certain players, that they rather continue to lose and go nowhere, than see those players traded.

The difference is Kaprizov was a 5th round pick... and altho yes, minnesota gave him time, he was still dominating in the KHL against men. Kotkaniemi has never dominated play anywhere, save for maybe 1 WJC the year he got drafted... he's been AVG in LIIGA, he's been good in the AHL, and just OK in the nhl to date. As a 3rd OA pick, that is NOT good enough and therefore I classify him as a bust in relation to where he was taken. WHICH by no means was his fault. That's entirely on the habs.

But you are 100% right, it's hard to play well with inconsistent line mates - nothing he can do there. But it IS his fault he's physically immature. Plain and simple, work harder off the ice.

Truer words have never been spoken. Enough with the "lets just get into the playoffs and then anything can happen". Build the right way and create a perennial cup contender not just a playoff pretender.

2012&14 kings were the most skilled?
2019 blue jackets more skilled than tampa?
2020 blue jackets more skilled than Toronto?
2019 blues most skilled?
There is a clear need for grit and physicality in the playoffs, and as I stated in the rant this team has some stupid and uncreative players. You can have your core of caufield, Suzuki, kotkaniemi, Romanov, toffoli and add a little more skill along with grit.

My point was how come everyone else gets time and kk doesn’t. mackinnon took a huge leap from a 50 point player at 21 to a 97 point top 3 player in the game at 22. Matthews took big steps last year. Barkov took a large leap at 23 from under a point a game to 96 points. Mcdavid is still improving.
Kucherov went from 66 to 85 at 23 and 85 to consistent 100 at 24

How is it that all of them will take large jumps at 22/23/24, but kk can’t?
Also physical immaturity has nothing to do with work ethic and everything to do with genetics. You’ve probably been to school with kids who were small in high school and maybe at the end or shortly after had a major growth spurt. And you probably went to school with kids who were 6’4 at 14. He’s still filling out and is in the presses of putting on mass. And especially as a hockey player it’s tough to add 20 or 25 pounds in the offseason and not dramatically effect your game, whether it be skating or stick handling.its a slow process.

Give the kid a chance. As I mentioned he still can’t drink in the states yet he can’t improve at hockey anymore? I’ll throw out a random number. What if he puts up 50 points next year? Or 60? Then what
And are kaako and hughes busts?

Matthews' 3rd year after being drafted: 68gp-37g-36a-73pts
Mac's 3rd year after being drafted: 72gp-21g-31a-52pts
Barkov's 3rd year after being drafted: 66gp-28g-31a-59pts
Kucherov's 3rd year after being drafted: 82gp-29g-36a-65pts

and KK's...: 56gp-5g-15a-20pts

I understand your logic and the reason why you want to give him time, but at what point will everyone stop pointing to his age and how he's the youngest at this and the 3rd youngest at that. He can't even crack the top-6 on a weak MTL forward group.

As for your Jack Hughes and Kakko reference, the jury is still out on hughes but atleast he is Centerring NJ top line in only his 2nd season. Kakko is in the same boat as KK, so yeah I wld consider him a bust this point too. Comparable to a guy like Nolan Patrick.

And just to be clear, I'm all for giving the kid a chance and letting him figure it out a little while longer. But all i'm saying is that I have next to no confidence in him becoming a star Centerman in this league. His peak for me like i said previous, wld be a very good 3rd line guy who scores 14-18goals a year and puts up about 50pts as his career max. Not terrible, but not great for a guy taken 3rd OA. An effective NHLer no doubt tho.

Jack hughes is on the top line because there is no talent. Kk is behind Suzuki who is a year older and is better at this point and danault who has excelled the last few years at 5v5.

People will stop(including myself) pointing out his age when it can no longer be used in as a reasonable issue. Not trying to bring in a sad story here but,

At 18 he left his family and country to come to Canada and made the nhl immediately. He is staying to play in the nhl, while being responsible defensively all while learning English and even French. He then also has the pressure of being the third overall pick and supposed to be the up and coming #1 centre for a huge hockey city.

I understand you want to write him off for some reason. I also understand that you understand how I want to give him more time. If he can’t take steps in his next two years feel free to call him a bust. At this point he isn’t given the same ice time and line mates as Suzuki and yet he has to be responsible defensively. Again if Ofer the next two years, next year and the year after he’s still a below average centre, then yes he’s a bust.

I know if said this twice, but he still can’t drink alcohol in the USA, and yet he’s somehow done developing?

Outliers are outliers. Go back the last 20 years, and look at the teams that won, how many of those team's core and immediate support were players with low to average ability and skill, but elite level grit?

I'm not saying grit is irrelevant, in general, it is often that which separate good players from great ones; but all that means nothing if elite ability and pure skill is nowhere to be found. You win by having good players. It is that simple.

Okay, because you said pure skill wins. I pointed out 5 times in 7 years off the top of my head where that’s not true. It’s not outliers of its happens all the time. As you can read in this post, I said we have several stupid players. I definitely agree skill is necessary. I got confused when you said only skill is necessary and not grit and determination

Ok so from what I understand, in your eyes he has 2 years to prove his worth as a top-6 C. I guess that's fair since that would put him at 22 almost 23yrs old. The odds and numbers are against him but I'm sure we're all rooting for him

1) The trading for "rebound" players and praying for them to elevate their games has not worked - time to push the draft and stockpile some picks. Armia is a typical example. Tatar was a throw-in. The **** with Merrill, Gustafson and Staal should never have happened. Byron is a another example of a potential flash in the pan that never materialized
2) Our LHD prospect pool is extremely strong - Norlinder, Struble, (Physical stud) Guhle (shutdown defender) , Harris (stready eddie) but they are just prospects at the moment. We need more goal scoring and centre depth. I would be packaging a 2nd rounder plus something to move into another top 40 pick in this year of the gamble. I would love Sillinger, McTavish, Lucius, Pastujov, Bourgault, Raty if we could swing 1 or 2 of them. Not a rebuild but get some more scoring prospects which admittedly don't grow on trees
3) KK is 20 years old - he will be fine - not sure what all the fuss has been about so far just because Tkachuk has outplayed him. Poehling and Evans are 3rd or 4th liners. The team needs more depth at Centre beyond KK and Suzuki but the free agent tree is dry. We will need a trade here. Unlikely Buffalo parts with Eichel to a team in the division but the asking price is too much. Move on from Danault - nice for a shutown centre but he adds no scoring
4) Weber - thank god he is likely only good to be here for 2 more years but he can't play top pairing minutes. If we have a chance to move him, he should be dealt and even partial salary retained for next year. One of Chiarot or Edmundson should be gone - too much overlap in their similar games. We need a puck moving LHD and if we can trade for unlikely to be protected in the expansion draft - Vince Dunn or Jake Bean, pull the strings. Play Romanov. Give Brook or Fleury a chance.
5) Convince Carey Price to waive his NMC in the expansion draft so we can keep Jake Allen. Very unlikely Seattle takes Price in the draft at that cap salary although Price may want to be closer to his home town. Sure hoping Seattle plucks Byron, or Chiarot, Lehkonen. etc.
6) Sadly I think Bergevin is here for 1 more year - it might be too rushed to try to find a new GM before this expansion draft and prospect draft. He has to change his approach to live with the youth including a guy like Jesse Ylonen. Coaching - Joel Bouchard has done a great development job in Laval.
7) I don't know what to think of Drouin's situation - mental health, physical health issues personally or in family. I love what I see in Caufield's game - vision, skating, passing, and shooting - Cole is going to be a star so I hope they pair him with the right players.

Agree with basically all of that.
Couple of things though
Only Bourgault will be available and he is okay. If they go after a puck mover to play with Weber not sure Dunn is that guy. Unfortunately really good ones are tough to find.
If you’re ever going to replace bergevin it should be now. Tatar, danault, armia, Perry, drouin(under contract but do you move him?) lehkonen, Byron, chiarot and are all question for returns. And the Seattle expansion draft

This offseason is when lots of key moves will be made. If bergevin makes those key moves, then there’s no point of getting rid of him later

The fuss about KK is exactly what you mentioned. We need to stop using the "he's the youngest player in the draft - he's one of just 3 teenagers playing in the nhl - he's only 20 years old"
For reference, this was posted on Habs forum a while ago;

Career statistics under the age of 21:

DRAFT NAME GP G A PTS P/G
2006 Jonathan Toews 146 58 65 123 0.84
2000 Marian Gaborik 206 74 81 155 0.75
2009 Matt Duchene 200 63 83 146 0.73
2016 Pierre-Luc Dubois 164 47 62 109 0.66
2014 Leon Draisaitl 116 23 43 66 0.57
2012 Alex Galchenyuk 167 38 56 94 0.56
2003 Nathan Horton 126 42 27 69 0.55
2011 Jon Huberdeau 117 23 36 59 0.50
2013 Jonathan Drouin 89 6 34 40 0.45
2018 Jesperi Kotkaniem 168 22 40 62 0.37
2007 Kyle Turris 66 8 13 21 0.32
2001 Alexandr Svitov 103 6 13 19 0.18
2015 Dylan Strome 18 1 1 2 0.11

So to be perfectly frank, and looking at that list, KK is another Drouin... just worse. That doesn't bode well for him or instill much confidence in his career progression thus far. Even Galchenyuk's stats and overall effectiveness at the same age with equal amount of Games played was much more encouraging. And look how he turned out for us...