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This is the Leafs year and Tavares Discussion

Créé par: Hawks_Are_Dumm
Date de création initiale: 29 avr. 2021
Publié: 29 avr. 2021
Équipe: 2020-21 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Explications
Toronto is rolling. With this year's playoff format, they can do it. I think they could go back to back even. This team looks so nasty.

Let's talk about Tavares. His ATOI is 18:16 this year, the least he's ever played in his career. He's managed to put up 32 even strength points in 49 games. For reference, Crosby has 35 even strength points in 49 games. Draisaitl has 40 even strength points in 47 games playing on a line mainly with McDavid. Nathan MacKinnon has 36 in 43 at even strength. So Tavares is up there with the best guys in the league. If he is compared to other second line centers: David Krejci, 20 EV in 44 GP; Jordan Staal, 23 EV in 47 GP; Nick Backstrom, 28 EV in 49 GP; William Karlsson, 26 EV in 48 GP. That's just a few of the better 2Cs in the NHL. All things considered, is Tavares' on ice play worth 11 mil? No. However, for his role, he is really good. He'll have 20 goals by the end of the season and that's in a shortened season. In Toronto, you are going to get a 30 goal, 70 point guy in John Tavares. Plus he's the captain. Thoughts?
Rachats de contrats
  • Mikhail Grabovski: 0 $
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Phil Kessel: 1 200 000 $ (15%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2021
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
2022
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Logo de TOR
2023
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2381 500 000 $80 768 908 $0 $0 $731 092 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de TOR
Nylander, William
6 962 366 $
AD, AG
UFA - 4
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Matthews, Auston
11 640 250 $
C
UFA - 4
Logo de TOR
Marner, Mitchell
10 903 000 $
AD
UFA - 5
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Hyman, Zach
2 250 000 $
AG, AD
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de TOR
Tavares, John
11 000 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo de TOR
Foligno, Nick
1 375 000 $
AG, C, AD
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
1 645 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
3 500 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 3
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Simmonds, Wayne
1 500 000 $
AD, AG
NTC
UFA - 1
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Thornton, Joe
700 000 $
C, AG
NMC
UFA - 1
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Spezza, Jason
700 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
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Galchenyuk, Alex
1 050 000 $
AG, C, AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
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Rielly, Morgan
5 000 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 2
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Brodie, TJ
5 000 000 $
DG/DD
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de TOR
Campbell, Jack
1 650 000 $
G
UFA - 2
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Muzzin, Jake
5 625 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de TOR
Holl, Justin
2 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 3
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Rittich, David
1 375 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de TOR
Sandin, Rasmus
894 167 $
DG
RFA - 2
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Dermott, Travis
874 125 $
DG/DD
RFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de TOR
Engvall, Pierre
1 250 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 2
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Bogosian, Zach
1 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 1
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Andersen, Frederik
5 000 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 1
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Brooks, Adam
725 000 $
C
UFA - 2
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Nash, Riley
2 750 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de TOR
Hutton, Ben
950 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
Logo de TOR
Sabourin, Scott
700 000 $
AD
UFA - 1
Équipe de réserve
Logo de TOR
Noesen, Stefan
925 000 $ (0 $)
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de TOR
Liljegren, Timothy
863 333 $ (0 $)
DD
RFA - 2
Logo de TOR
Hutchinson, Michael
725 000 $ (0 $)
G
UFA - 2
Logo de TOR
Marincin, Martin
700 000 $ (0 $)
DG
UFA - 1
Logo de TOR
Robertson, Nicholas
821 667 $ (0 $)
AG
RFA - 4

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29 avr. 2021 à 9 h 53
#1
exo2769
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I'm not a TOR fan, but the law of diminishing returns apply here. You may not think he's worth $11M, but when you have the best #2C in the game (ok Drai's probably it right now due to the PP skills, but it's close as you pointed out) you tend to pay up. If there's ANY position that a team should pay up for...it's the center position. I love their physicality these days! Dirty??? No, That's just gossip for people to talk about. I like watching them play.
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29 avr. 2021 à 9 h 55
#2
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Chewbacca88
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Quoting: exo2769
I'm not a TOR fan, but the law of diminishing returns apply here. You may not think he's worth $11M, but when you have the best #2C in the game (ok Drai's probably it right now due to the PP skills, but it's close as you pointed out) you tend to pay up. If there's ANY position that a team should pay up for...it's the center position. I love their physicality these days! Dirty??? No, That's just gossip for people to talk about. I like watching them play.


You hit the nail on the head. They are an exciting team to watch. I love their 4th line. As a Hawks fan I can't stand Thornton for obvious reasons but seeing him and Spezza on a line together is pretty cool.
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29 avr. 2021 à 10 h 0
#3
Lenny7
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John Tavares is very good at hockey. He'll still be 34 when the contract finishes, meaning that, while there will likely be some regression, it's not going to be an albatross like some of those 30+ guys that signed long term.

In conclusion, John Tavares was a good signing, is a good captain, and, as I said above, is good at hockey.
29 avr. 2021 à 10 h 9
#4
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I don’t have a problem with Tavares at all
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29 avr. 2021 à 10 h 22
#5
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agree. just dont like that contract. would be nice to see him have some more ice time tho
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29 avr. 2021 à 10 h 47
#6
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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I thought the contract as a UFA was OK. Tavares play...as expected. What the Leafs did was overpay their 3 top RFA, collectively 4.5m too much at the time of signings.
Of course just before Covid the league was expecting a cap of 86m for 21/22 which makes a lot of signings made pre Covid rather bloated.
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29 avr. 2021 à 10 h 52
#7
In Pridham we trust
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Quoting: palhal
I thought the contract as a UFA was OK. Tavares play...as expected. What the Leafs did was overpay their 3 top RFA, collectively 4.5m too much at the time of signings.
Of course just before Covid the league was expecting a cap of 86m for 21/22 which makes a lot of signings made pre Covid rather bloated.


Tavares had a slow start to the season (apparently it was a stick issue) but he's looked like his old self for last 10-15 games.

Aside from the slow start this year, if it wasn't for COVID (as you mention) and the cap was rising the way it was supposed to, I really doubt there would be much talk about Tavares' price tag.

Also Nylander got market value.
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29 avr. 2021 à 13 h 21
#8
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Chewbacca88
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Quoting: Barilko14
Tavares had a slow start to the season (apparently it was a stick issue) but he's looked like his old self for last 10-15 games.

Aside from the slow start this year, if it wasn't for COVID (as you mention) and the cap was rising the way it was supposed to, I really doubt there would be much talk about Tavares' price tag.

Also Nylander got market value.



Yeah, Nylander's actuall cap hit of 6.5 or whatever isn't terrible. His actual salary and signing bonuses and the breakdown of the first couple years was insane.
29 avr. 2021 à 13 h 22
#9
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Chewbacca88
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Quoting: CrazyK04
Yeah, Nylander's actuall cap hit of 6.5 or whatever isn't terrible. His actual salary and signing bonuses and the breakdown of the first couple years was insane.


He made like 11 million in the first season
29 avr. 2021 à 13 h 26
#10
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We comparing teams 2Cs that play in divisions with actual defenses / other good teams with Toronto’s pushover North division. Hard to do that.
29 avr. 2021 à 14 h 36
#11
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Modifié 29 avr. 2021 à 14 h 48
Ive never really took in how Habs fans were going off about his contract and how they were happy they didnt meet with him, meanwhile webers on the books til hes 40 and hes already playing like hes 45, he could very well be the slowest player in the league, i knew he was on the books that long i just never took in that habs fans were chirping hard meanwhile theyre in a worse spot

JT is the best player on Montreal pretty easily
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29 avr. 2021 à 18 h 24
#12
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Quoting: vr1995
Ive never really took in how Habs fans were going off about his contract and how they were happy they didnt meet with him, meanwhile webers on the books til hes 40 and hes already playing like hes 45, he could very well be the slowest player in the league, i knew he was on the books that long i just never took in that habs fans were chirping hard meanwhile theyre in a worse spot

JT is the best player on Montreal pretty easily


Although I don't love the Leafs cap investment of about 41m in 4 players...at least those four players show fair value by their play

Next year the Habs have given raises to Petry and Gallagher. Along with Price and Weber that's 32m with term in four players on the downsides of their career.
29 avr. 2021 à 22 h 57
#13
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I don't think anyone really dislikes Tavares the person/player......what fans don't like is all that money/cap space tied up in four players making it tough to have a good defense and a #1 goalie
30 avr. 2021 à 10 h 34
#14
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Quoting: palhal
Although I don't love the Leafs cap investment of about 41m in 4 players...at least those four players show fair value by their play

Next year the Habs have given raises to Petry and Gallagher. Along with Price and Weber that's 32m with term in four players on the downsides of their career.


Exactly they pay their stars.

take ottawa for example, they have crazy potential with their prospect pool, but melnyk is cheap and could hinder them signing all of them, marner last year everyone complained and laughed at the leafs for the deal and look this year, noones making a peep
30 avr. 2021 à 12 h 0
#15
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Quoting: vr1995
Exactly they pay their stars.

take ottawa for example, they have crazy potential with their prospect pool, but melnyk is cheap and could hinder them signing all of them, marner last year everyone complained and laughed at the leafs for the deal and look this year, noones making a peep


Actually I'll disagree with Melynk being cheap. They were semi finalists and acquired Duchense for Cup run. But even with Karlsson, Stone and Duchene they were finishing out of the playoffs. So he made three trades get futures for his 3 UFAs. No reason a non playoff team should be spending to the cap, when they will need cap space in the near future.
It costs about 130m to run an NHL team. The difference between spending 81m or 71m in players salaries isn't very much.
So while Melynk might be cheap, I think Sens have done a good job of spending wisely. Now that players are due for bigger contracts, we'll see how cheap the Senators are. IMO they will offer fair contracts to their players. Now whether or not the players want those contracts is another issue.
30 avr. 2021 à 12 h 7
#16
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Quoting: ecupirate07
We comparing teams 2Cs that play in divisions with actual defenses / other good teams with Toronto’s pushover North division. Hard to do that.


lol what's with carolina fans on this website being completely insufferable?
30 avr. 2021 à 12 h 12
#17
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Quoting: mondo
lol what's with carolina fans on this website being completely insufferable?


since we cant take a joke and Toronto fans being light years worse, it is what it is I guess
30 avr. 2021 à 12 h 14
#18
too dumb to log off
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Quoting: ecupirate07
since we cant take a joke and Toronto fans being light years worse, it is what it is I guess


"i was joking" is such a cop out lmao
30 avr. 2021 à 12 h 52
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Quoting: ecupirate07
since we cant take a joke and Toronto fans being light years worse, it is what it is I guess


Carolina fans are sneeeeaaaky bad
30 avr. 2021 à 12 h 55
#20
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Quoting: palhal
Actually I'll disagree with Melynk being cheap. They were semi finalists and acquired Duchense for Cup run. But even with Karlsson, Stone and Duchene they were finishing out of the playoffs. So he made three trades get futures for his 3 UFAs. No reason a non playoff team should be spending to the cap, when they will need cap space in the near future.
It costs about 130m to run an NHL team. The difference between spending 81m or 71m in players salaries isn't very much.
So while Melynk might be cheap, I think Sens have done a good job of spending wisely. Now that players are due for bigger contracts, we'll see how cheap the Senators are. IMO they will offer fair contracts to their players. Now whether or not the players want those contracts is another issue.


chabot aside, whens the last time theyve signed one of their stars? im talking resigning their stars
30 avr. 2021 à 13 h 27
#21
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Modifié 30 avr. 2021 à 13 h 33
Quoting: mondo
"i was joking" is such a cop out lmao


at least we are all laughing

Seriously though the North is a cake walk. Tavares was fantastic 2 years ago. The last 2 he has tailed off from being worth the money. This year's numbers dont show a tail off because the north doesnt have a challenger. He'll slowly continue his slide into 2C production and the contract will look really bad. At least Toronto had one really good year and then these two close to PPG years. May get 1 or 2 more.
30 avr. 2021 à 13 h 28
#22
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Quoting: vr1995
Carolina fans are sneeeeaaaky bad


I do enjoy the good no on trade proposals because they typically warrant them.

There is one who is less than sneaky bad.

We all have our faults.
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30 avr. 2021 à 13 h 51
#23
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Quoting: vr1995
chabot aside, whens the last time theyve signed one of their stars? im talking resigning their stars


???? Not signing the stars isn't necessarily a bad thing, and certainly doesn't signify cheapness.
Apparently Karlsson was offered 10m. EK probably wanted to leave Ottawa anyway, so the Sens got a great haul in that trade with San Jose. Don't you think San Jose regrets signing Karlsson?
Duschene is getting paid too much for too much term by Nashville. Great move by Sens moving away from him.
Sure the Sens probably wish they had signed Stone. But Stone was going to be a UFA, so really the Sens had no choice whether he stayed or went.
Fact is rebuilding teams shouldn't be spending to the cap. It just hurts future cap flexbility. Canucks, Sabres, San Jose, Philly, are a lot close to the cap than Ottawa, and not much better if at all right now, and certainly the Sens seems to have many more good assets in cost controlled players.
30 avr. 2021 à 13 h 55
#24
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Quoting: ecupirate07
at least we are all laughing

Seriously though the North is a cake walk. Tavares was fantastic 2 years ago. The last 2 he has tailed off from being worth the money. This year's numbers dont show a tail off because the north doesnt have a challenger. He'll slowly continue his slide into 2C production and the contract will look really bad. At least Toronto had one really good year and then these two close to PPG years. May get 1 or 2 more.


North division may not have multiple contenders but none of the teams are massive pushovers. Ottawa is the worst team in the division and they not only play up to the Leafs constantly but they're inarguably better than Anaheim/San Jose, Detroit/Columbus, New Jersey/Buffalo.

Besides, you play what's in front of you. Tavares has been fantastic this season regardless of what you think about the opposition. Discounting him is extremely disingenuous.
30 avr. 2021 à 14 h 6
#25
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Quoting: mondo
North division may not have multiple contenders but none of the teams are massive pushovers. Ottawa is the worst team in the division and they not only play up to the Leafs constantly but they're inarguably better than Anaheim/San Jose, Detroit/Columbus, New Jersey/Buffalo.

Besides, you play what's in front of you. Tavares has been fantastic this season regardless of what you think about the opposition. Discounting him is extremely disingenuous.


The bottom of the west is bad. Bottom of the Central is worse than expected because Columbus under performed. North has Ottawa, Calgary, and Vancouver. Either way. Tavares is a good 2C but not at 11 million dollars.

Discounting Pesce was equally disingenuous but that didnt stop 90% of leaf's nation.
 
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