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How Does This Feel Wild Fans

Créé par: OldNYIfan
Équipe: 2021-22 Wild du Minnesota
Date de création initiale: 17 avr. 2021
Publié: 17 avr. 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Spitballing some ideas for trading Matt Dumba so that Minnesota can go 7-3-1 for Seattle. Trade made prior to the expansion draft so that Minnesota can protect Foligno, Greenway and Hartman in addition to the two NMCs and Eriksson Ek and Fiala. Qualifying exposures: Rask and Sturm, Soucy, and one of the goaltenders. Exempt: Allison, Boldy, Kaprizov and Rossi.

Philadelphia will obviously be looking to upgrade their defense and has numerous forward prospects that should be interesting to Minnesota. Jay O'Brien (right-handed C Boston College sophomore) is an alternative to Allison, but is further away from the NHL; Allison should be ready next season. The Flyers probably won't part with Morgan Frost, Bobby Brink or Tyson Foerster.
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Transactions
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  1. Allison, Wade
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2022 (PHI)
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17 avr. 2021 à 14 h 58
#1
Banni
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No from Minnesota wild. The ask is a top 6c, or top 6c prospect for dumba. That has always been the ask from wild gm bill Guerin. He's not backing off that
17 avr. 2021 à 15 h 8
#2
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The trade makes no sense before the expansion draft due to free agency but i would rather trade Frost instead of Allison if we would trade for a defense man. We have so many center prospects to trade with (Foerster, Frost, Wizdom, Laczynski, Bunnaman and Willman) if Frost would be traded for dumba it would be like Frost + 2/3 round pick in my opinion.
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17 avr. 2021 à 15 h 9
#3
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Quoting: ModanoisCool
No from Minnesota wild. The ask is a top 6c, or top 6c prospect for dumba. That has always been the ask from wild gm bill Guerin. He's not backing off that


After watching this team this past season I'd rather part with Frost than Allison. Allison is the heart and soul type player this team needs. He's been incredibly noticeable in his first two games in the NHL. Seems like he has a lot of Scott Hartnell in him
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17 avr. 2021 à 15 h 18
#4
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Quoting: HikinenNisti
The trade makes no sense before the expansion draft due to free agency but i would rather trade Frost instead of Allison if we would trade for a defense man. We have so many center prospects to trade with (Foerster, Frost, Wizdom, Laczynski, Bunnaman and Willman) if Frost would be traded for dumba it would be like Frost + 2/3 round pick in my opinion.


Quoting: flyersarephilly
After watching this team this past season I'd rather part with Frost than Allison. Allison is the heart and soul type player this team needs. He's been incredibly noticeable in his first two games in the NHL. Seems like he has a lot of Scott Hartnell in him


Thanks for the input, guys. As you can see from my Team Explanation, I thought you all had a higher opinion about Frost than Allison, who I personally think is one of those below-the-radar guys that is going to surprise a lot of people next year. Good luck!
17 avr. 2021 à 15 h 39
#5
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Quoting: flyersarephilly
After watching this team this past season I'd rather part with Frost than Allison. Allison is the heart and soul type player this team needs. He's been incredibly noticeable in his first two games in the NHL. Seems like he has a lot of Scott Hartnell in him


So 2 games is a pretty small sample size, I hope he does end up like a Hartnell though. And Honestly, the Wild probably want Frost or Patrick given both are NHL ready. I know Frost’s sample size is also pretty small but I really like what I’ve seen, the guy has got the speed and playmaking that we crave so badly. So fingers crossed we’re both right and everybody gets what they want.
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17 avr. 2021 à 16 h 23
#6
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Quoting: jnowariak
So 2 games is a pretty small sample size, I hope he does end up like a Hartnell though. And Honestly, the Wild probably want Frost or Patrick given both are NHL ready. I know Frost’s sample size is also pretty small but I really like what I’ve seen, the guy has got the speed and playmaking that we crave so badly. So fingers crossed we’re both right and everybody gets what they want.


Thanks for the thoughtful and knowledgeable input. A bright Philly guy made the Frost and first proposal and I was advancing an alternative, but given Minnesota's need at center, I think that he and you are right.
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17 avr. 2021 à 16 h 35
#7
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If Dumba IS to go to Philly and we're getting a lesser value prospect, I would probably prefer this year's pick as it'll more likely be higher in the draft order. Another pick/prospect would be nice too
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17 avr. 2021 à 16 h 47
#8
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Quoting: C21
If Dumba IS to go to Philly and we're getting a lesser value prospect, I would probably prefer this year's pick as it'll more likely be higher in the draft order. Another pick/prospect would be nice too


I'd rather have next year's pick:
-This year's PHI pick will be about 15oa.
-MN already has 2 (20ish) 1st's this year.
-A supposed stronger draft.
-A full season (hopefully) of play and scouting for the kids.
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17 avr. 2021 à 16 h 49
#9
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Thanks for the thoughtful and knowledgeable input. A bright Philly guy made the Frost and first proposal and I was advancing an alternative, but given Minnesota's need at center, I think that he and you are right.


I don’t fault PHI for not making a move this last off-season but it was a risk. PHI does have depth down the middle and now we know they NEED a top pair RHD. I think they’re willing to part with one of those guys, especially after the Patrick rumors right before the deadline.

What does change my thinking is where PHI is going to pick this year. Does a 2nd and a 1st swap work? I really think Dumba will be protected in expansion and moved after. He’s more valuable once teams know what their roster looks like and I bet WPG is really wishing they didn’t play so hard to get this past offseason. There will be teams that want him and his remaining term is probably attractive even if the cap hit isn’t.
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17 avr. 2021 à 16 h 49
#10
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Quoting: wabit
I'd rather have next year's pick:
-This year's PHI pick will be about 15oa.
-MN already has 2 (20ish) 1st's this year.
-A supposed stronger draft.
-A full season (hopefully) of play and scouting for the kids.


That's precisely why I made it the 2022 instead of a third 2021.
17 avr. 2021 à 16 h 50
#11
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Quoting: wabit
I'd rather have next year's pick:
-This year's PHI pick will be about 15oa.
-MN already has 2 (20ish) 1st's this year.
-A supposed stronger draft.
-A full season (hopefully) of play and scouting for the kids.


The idea of a weak/strong draft is being over played. A 10-15 pick this year is still worth more than a 20-25 pick next year.
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17 avr. 2021 à 16 h 59
#12
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Quoting: jnowariak
The idea of a weak/strong draft is being over played. A 10-15 pick this year is still worth more than a 20-25 pick next year.


Just for the record, I have the counter-intuitive (to the point of weird) theory that any pick after #10 in this year's draft is better than any pick after #10 in next year's draft, because the chance of hitting a "blind" home run in this year's under-scouted and under-exposed draft is greater than the chance of doing so next year.
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17 avr. 2021 à 17 h 3
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Quoting: jnowariak
I don’t fault PHI for not making a move this last off-season but it was a risk. PHI does have depth down the middle and now we know they NEED a top pair RHD. I think they’re willing to part with one of those guys, especially after the Patrick rumors right before the deadline.

What does change my thinking is where PHI is going to pick this year. Does a 2nd and a 1st swap work? I really think Dumba will be protected in expansion and moved after. He’s more valuable once teams know what their roster looks like and I bet WPG is really wishing they didn’t play so hard to get this past offseason. There will be teams that want him and his remaining term is probably attractive even if the cap hit isn’t.


I'm still not sure how much depth PHI does have down the middle.
-Giroux and Couts are both rentals next year. I think Couts re-signs for big money. Not sure what is going to happen with Giroux.
-Patrick hasn't really done much.
-They have some nice prospects, but they haven't really had their NHL chances yet.
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17 avr. 2021 à 17 h 12
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Quoting: jnowariak
The idea of a weak/strong draft is being over played. A 10-15 pick this year is still worth more than a 20-25 pick next year.


I don't think so, after the top few players this year's draft is a complete crapshoot. I also don't think PHI will have a 20-25 pick next year and will be on the Playoff bubble, even with Dumba.
17 avr. 2021 à 17 h 35
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Quoting: wabit
I'm still not sure how much depth PHI does have down the middle.
-Giroux and Couts are both rentals next year. I think Couts re-signs for big money. Not sure what is going to happen with Giroux.
-Patrick hasn't really done much.
-They have some nice prospects, but they haven't really had their NHL chances yet.


I think it’s fair to still be skeptical of the C prospects, if I’m not mistaken you’re a critic yourself which is fair enough. I do think there is top 6 ability in Frost right now, his injury didn’t do him any favors.

Patrick can still be a middle 6 C, possibly more if he finds his mojo. I have to assume the lock up Coots and they also have Hayes locked up. Couple that with the fact that Giroux is still a pt per game player and I’d argue they have depth. Even if it isn’t the youngest.
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17 avr. 2021 à 17 h 38
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Quoting: wabit
I don't think so, after the top few players this year's draft is a complete crapshoot. I also don't think PHI will have a 20-25 pick next year and will be on the Playoff bubble, even with Dumba.


I think we look at prospects differently and that’s fine. What’s interesting is the top of next year’s draft is probably better than this year’s but that curve will collapse to the average around pick 10 if I had to make a guess. Hype matters and is driving more of the discussion than facts this year.

It comes down to whether you think your team can scout the guys who are gonna be NHLers or not.
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17 avr. 2021 à 17 h 55
#17
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Quoting: wabit
I'd rather have next year's pick:
-This year's PHI pick will be about 15oa.
-MN already has 2 (20ish) 1st's this year.
-A supposed stronger draft.
-A full season (hopefully) of play and scouting for the kids.


That's absolutely fair. I just see a decent possibility of that pick being nearly 15 spots lower next year, so even though it's a stronger class, that's my worry

Admittedly, I haven't really looked into next year really at all tho
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17 avr. 2021 à 17 h 57
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Just for the record, I have the counter-intuitive (to the point of weird) theory that any pick after #10 in this year's draft is better than any pick after #10 in next year's draft, because the chance of hitting a "blind" home run in this year's under-scouted and under-exposed draft is greater than the chance of doing so next year.


I don’t think the cliff comes that soon, I’d think it starts after the 3rd round. I would bet lots of teams are going to draft for certainty earlier in the draft and the fact that the OHL isn’t gonna play means that those guys are just gonna fall, overagers might rise at their expense. What SJS and DET did by brokering the trades will probably net them a middle 6 guy or two with upside.
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17 avr. 2021 à 18 h 0
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Modifié 17 avr. 2021 à 18 h 5
Quoting: C21
That's absolutely fair. I just see a decent possibility of that pick being nearly 15 spots lower next year, so even though it's a stronger class, that's my worry

Admittedly, I haven't really looked into next year really at all tho


I think most of the draft hype is being driven by the very top of it. This year is not the year to be bad since there is nobody that stands out as a no doubt number 1. Next year has a couple guys that will push to lead the league in scoring. What comes after? Probably guys that are similar in talent across the draft.

What entices me about moving up to PHI pick is the chance to get Wallstedt.
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17 avr. 2021 à 18 h 8
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Quoting: jnowariak
I think most of the draft hype is being driven by the very top of it. This year is not the year to bad since there is nobody that stands out as a no doubt number 1. Next year has a couple guys that will push to lead the league in scoring. What comes after? Probably guys that are similar in talent across the draft.

What notices me about moving up to PHI pick is the chance to get Wallstedt.


I think you're right. This year's class is so unpredictable. It is a weaker class imo, not necessarily based on the prospect's potentials, but rather their production. And that's not even taking Covid into account making this draft even more unpredictable

And yes, Wallstedt is super attractive. The first guy I thought of when looking at that pick, quickly followed by Chaz Lucius who could still be an option even without Philly's pick depending on how the board falls

Heck, Kent Johnson (among many others) could still be there at Philly's pick
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17 avr. 2021 à 18 h 16
#21
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Quoting: C21
I think you're right. This year's class is so unpredictable. It is a weaker class imo, not necessarily based on the prospect's potentials, but rather their production. And that's not even taking Covid into account making this draft even more unpredictable

And yes, Wallstedt is super attractive. The first guy I thought of when looking at that pick, quickly followed by Chaz Lucius who could still be an option even without Philly's pick depending on how the board falls

Heck, Kent Johnson (among many others) could still be there at Philly's pick


This is the reason why you want this year’s 15 over next year’s 20. There is a greater chance that your guy falls to you and he’s probably a “better” prospect as well. It is a weaker draft class but that’s not to say that top 6 and top 4 guys won’t be available mid-late 1st. Trust your staff and see what happens. Just don’t draft Zobril and Senyschyn when Barzal and Conner are on the table.

I’d be very happy with any of the names mentioned and I’d throw Sillinger into that mix as well.
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17 avr. 2021 à 18 h 20
#22
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Quoting: jnowariak
I think we look at prospects differently and that’s fine. What’s interesting is the top of next year’s draft is probably better than this year’s but that curve will collapse to the average around pick 10 if I had to make a guess. Hype matters and is driving more of the discussion than facts this year.

It comes down to whether you think your team can scout the guys who are gonna be NHLers or not.


I don't have a high opinion of MN's new head scout, and I've not been a fan of MNs scouting staff in the past.

Hype matters more this draft than in any in recent history. There are a bunch of kids where past hype is all they'll have to go on to get drafted this year. The 1st round is going to be littered with guys that "should" be taken in the 2nd/3rd rounds simply because they can play this year while others can't.

The CHL isn't fully up and running, and I'm not sure if they allow fans/scouts to watch the games that are happening. Lots of US high schoolers lost some/all of their seasons.
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17 avr. 2021 à 18 h 26
#23
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I don't hate this trade. I would be ok with it as is. Actually considering most GMs are probably playing hard ball since they know Guerin is in a tough spot with Dumba I would be pretty pleased with this return.
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17 avr. 2021 à 18 h 33
#24
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Quoting: wabit
I don't have a high opinion of MN's new head scout, and I've not been a fan of MNs scouting staff in the past.

Hype matters more this draft than in any in recent history. There are a bunch of kids where past hype is all they'll have to go on to get drafted this year. The 1st round is going to be littered with guys that "should" be taken in the 2nd/3rd rounds simply because they can play this year while others can't.

The CHL isn't fully up and running, and I'm not sure if they allow fans/scouts to watch the games that are happening. Lots of US high schoolers lost some/all of their seasons.


Fair criticism of the scouting staff, I know Brackett had the Gm over his shoulder on draft day so I’ll give it some time.

As for the idea that hype is important, drafting on hype will lead you down the wrong road. All leagues other than the OHL have played meaningful seasons and none of those guys were projected top of the 1st round after last season. If an NHL team can’t get its hands on game film then that scouting staff has utterly failed. I get that not being able to scout in person is a detriment but the league has started going to more emphasis on video scouting in the past years. A successful draft means you get a couple NHL players, the things you listed are just excuses hockey men will use when they draft dud after dud this year.
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17 avr. 2021 à 19 h 18
#25
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Quoting: jnowariak
Fair criticism of the scouting staff, I know Brackett had the Gm over his shoulder on draft day so I’ll give it some time.

As for the idea that hype is important, drafting on hype will lead you down the wrong road. All leagues other than the OHL have played meaningful seasons and none of those guys were projected top of the 1st round after last season. If an NHL team can’t get its hands on game film then that scouting staff has utterly failed. I get that not being able to scout in person is a detriment but the league has started going to more emphasis on video scouting in the past years. A successful draft means you get a couple NHL players, the things you listed are just excuses hockey men will use when they draft dud after dud this year.


Game tape is different than watching the games in person. Going off of last year's rankings is going down the wrong road also, just look at Raty.

With MN already having a couple of 1st this year if I'm going to add a 1st somehow I'd rather it be in the future, it just gives more flexibility to the team. For this draft I'd rather have stocked up on mid-round picks rather than 1st rounders (it's a good chance of just being BOS (2015) all over again this year and mid 1sts). For normal years I'd rather have a 1st than mid-round picks.
 
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