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Oiler Fans what do you think

Créé par: trentbarney
Équipe: 2020-21 Red Wings de Detroit
Date de création initiale: 31 mars 2021
Publié: 31 mars 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Cap Dump plus three pieces for a cup run? If this isn't it what is your counter?
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DET
  1. Neal, James
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2021 (EDM)
  3. Choix de 2e ronde en 2022 (EDM)
  4. Choix de 4e ronde en 2023 (EDM)
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
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Équipe de réserve
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3 000 000 $3 000 000 $ (1 925 000 $$2M1 925 000 $$2M)
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875 000 $875 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
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31 mars 2021 à 12 h 3
#1
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Wings can get. It's seperate so we should decline.

Neal costs a first as a dump
Lgd gets a 3rd+ 5th
Staal gets a 4th
Bernier gets a 2nd/3rd, especially retained
31 mars 2021 à 12 h 15
#2
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Oilers decline. We do not need any more D and cant even find room for the D we have.
Nurse/Barrie
Laggesson/Larsson
Russell/Bear
Jones/Bouchard
Lennstom

Neal's Buyout is only 1.9 and we certainly will not be giving a first for him. A first for 1.9 million is ridiculous.

Bernier would be nice to have, but we have Stalock who is pretty good and we will see what we have with him when he gets into the lineup.

Glendening is great on the face offs and is still pretty good. But is he really an upgrade over Khaira or Hass who both play the PK?
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31 mars 2021 à 12 h 19
#3
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Modifié 31 mars 2021 à 12 h 25
I have a alternate offer for you. Basically you are getting a year, and a half of Koskinen at 4.5M, 2 years and a half of Neal at 5.75M a late first, a late fourth, and Jones. Neals buyout at the start of next year is 1.9M for 4 years so it’s not a crazy one if you want to go down that road, also Koskinens buyout would be 2 years 1.5M if you want to buyout him. Glendening is a good fourth liner that is very good at winning face offs, Jonathan Bernier is a very good veteran goalie, that can split starts with Smith for this year. Essentially the first is for Koskinen, and Neal to get dumped to Detroit. Jones for Bernier as I don’t see him as a fit long term in Edmonton, and the fourth for Glendening. Anyway, how long is Bernier out for? I didn’t realize he was.

Detroit Red Wings

Mikko Koskinen, James Neal, 2021 first, 2021 fourth, Caleb Jones.

Edmonton Oilers

Jonathan Bernier, Luke Glendening
31 mars 2021 à 12 h 26
#4
Bringer_Of_Snow
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A 1st, 2nd and 3rd for some average to below average vets is ridiculous. I get that you have them taking Neal, but the Oilers will buyout Neal and take the small cap penalty before we trade a 1st to move him.

Oilers are getting a 2B goalie, which we don't need, a UFA 4C, which would be nice (but shouldn't cost much), and a 6/7 34 year old dman. Aside from Glendenning, there is nothing in this deal the Oilers want or even have room for on their roster. Would rather move a b prospect for Glendenning and buyout Neal and keep all of those picks. This deal makes zero sense for the Oilers and is just poor asset management.
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31 mars 2021 à 13 h 56
#5
Leafhater
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Drop the 1st and that should do it.
31 mars 2021 à 14 h 34
#6
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Quoting: Copenhagen
Oilers decline. We do not need any more D and cant even find room for the D we have.
Nurse/Barrie
Laggesson/Larsson
Russell/Bear
Jones/Bouchard
Lennstom

Neal's Buyout is only 1.9 and we certainly will not be giving a first for him. A first for 1.9 million is ridiculous.

Bernier would be nice to have, but we have Stalock who is pretty good and we will see what we have with him when he gets into the lineup.

Glendening is great on the face offs and is still pretty good. But is he really an upgrade over Khaira or Hass who both play the PK?

His buyout isn’t just 1.9M, it’s $7,666,667 cash & cap spread over 4 years. Marleau’s buyout was 4M cash & 6.25M cap pre-pandemic for reference. That’s fine if you don’t want to pay the assets required for that buyout but your comment is a bit disingenuous.
31 mars 2021 à 14 h 44
#7
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Quoting: BStinson
His buyout isn’t just 1.9M, it’s $7,666,667 cash & cap spread over 4 years. Marleau’s buyout was 4M cash & 6.25M cap pre-pandemic for reference. That’s fine if you don’t want to pay the assets required for that buyout but your comment is a bit disingenuous.


I dont think some of the owners actually care about the real cash of the buyout. They just want to win and have a budget anyways. You must understand this though right.
31 mars 2021 à 14 h 49
#8
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Quoting: Copenhagen
I dont think some of the owners actually care about the real cash of the buyout. They just want to win and have a budget anyways. You must understand this though right.


You assume that billionaires don’t care about their bottom line. The NHL is a business. Detroit bought out Abdelkader for cost savings and they profited more than Edmonton. Eugene Melnyk routinely bought front loaded contracts to hit the cap floor. If your theory was remotely true then there wouldn’t ever have been a lockout as the owners would’ve given more of the revenue share to the players.
31 mars 2021 à 14 h 53
#9
arky
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Quoting: quinnjj
Drop the 1st and that should do it.

Sorry not taking on cap dump for nothing.
31 mars 2021 à 14 h 54
#10
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Quoting: BStinson
You assume that billionaires don’t care about their bottom line. The NHL is a business. Detroit bought out Abdelkader for cost savings and they profited more than Edmonton. Eugene Melnyk routinely bought front loaded contracts to hit the cap floor. If your theory was remotely true then there wouldn’t ever have been a lockout as the owners would’ve given more of the revenue share to the players.


The revenue share has absolutely nothing to do with this. Dont make that mistake. Business is to win and go as far in the playoffs as they can so they can cash in. 1 million bucks per game per team with salary all paid for at that point is where they really make their money. Dont sterotype all owners into the same category, Katz is in this to win and will always spend to the cap to win. He still lives in his glory days with the Oilers and wants it again.
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31 mars 2021 à 14 h 54
#11
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Quoting: BStinson
You assume that billionaires don’t care about their bottom line. The NHL is a business. Detroit bought out Abdelkader for cost savings and they profited more than Edmonton. Eugene Melnyk routinely bought front loaded contracts to hit the cap floor. If your theory was remotely true then there wouldn’t ever have been a lockout as the owners would’ve given more of the revenue share to the players.


The revenue share has absolutely nothing to do with this. Dont make that mistake. Business is to win and go as far in the playoffs as they can so they can cash in. 1 million bucks per game per team with salary all paid for at that point is where they really make their money. Dont sterotype all owners into the same category, Katz is in this to win and will always spend to the cap to win. He still lives in his glory days with the Oilers and wants it again.
31 mars 2021 à 15 h 11
#12
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Quoting: Copenhagen
The revenue share has absolutely nothing to do with this. Dont make that mistake. Business is to win and go as far in the playoffs as they can so they can cash in. 1 million bucks per game per team with salary all paid for at that point is where they really make their money. Dont sterotype all owners into the same category, Katz is in this to win and will always spend to the cap to win. He still lives in his glory days with the Oilers and wants it again.


Revenue share is profit so it goes against your assumption. Teams aren’t making one million cash for playoff games during Covid nor are teams that are willing to buyout Neal’s contract as they need the cap space. I didn’t stereotype any owner but rather provided examples to counter your initial comment. The Pegulas rake in cash via NFL and cut their FO 22 spots. Currently have 7 scouts and are picking top 3 so why aren’t they doing everything to win? Just using real world examples to counter your claim instead of assumptions.
31 mars 2021 à 15 h 24
#13
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Quoting: BStinson
Revenue share is profit so it goes against your assumption. Teams aren’t making one million cash for playoff games during Covid nor are teams that are willing to buyout Neal’s contract as they need the cap space. I didn’t stereotype any owner but rather provided examples to counter your initial comment. The Pegulas rake in cash via NFL and cut their FO 22 spots. Currently have 7 scouts and are picking top 3 so why aren’t they doing everything to win? Just using real world examples to counter your claim instead of assumptions.


The million cash per game is off of tv revenue. So I am not sure what Covid has to do with anything???? Further more the playoff games generate a huge amount of 50/50 in Edmonton anyways. Like over 500k per game which Katz then writes off when the donation to the charity is made. Revenue share is a fixed cost, not a variable cost. It is set and part of business. It doesn't change until renegotiated. They all know this and understand this and further more, you dont know how each ones vote. Katz does not care about the Neal buyout and it is Hollands decision as he has a budget to follow. Oilers will probably buy out Neal during the next buyout period and giving a 1st or boat load for another team to buy him out is bad asset management. PERIOD and wrecks the continued long term build and success of the Oilers. Oilers are finally after 15 years getting to the point of having some decent prospects and are not going to destroy that now.
31 mars 2021 à 15 h 41
#14
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Quoting: Copenhagen
The million cash per game is off of tv revenue. So I am not sure what Covid has to do with anything???? Further more the playoff games generate a huge amount of 50/50 in Edmonton anyways. Like over 500k per game which Katz then writes off when the donation to the charity is made. Revenue share is a fixed cost, not a variable cost. It is set and part of business. It doesn't change until renegotiated. They all know this and understand this and further more, you dont know how each ones vote. Katz does not care about the Neal buyout and it is Hollands decision as he has a budget to follow. Oilers will probably buy out Neal during the next buyout period and giving a 1st or boat load for another team to buy him out is bad asset management. PERIOD and wrecks the continued long term build and success of the Oilers. Oilers are finally after 15 years getting to the point of having some decent prospects and are not going to destroy that now.

Revenue split is a fixed, however, revenue is variable which is why escrow exists. Friedman and many other “insiders” have already reported on how trades are being effected by finances. The playoff gate revenue is non existent but the tv revenue still exists. We have a pretty good idea how some owners vote for the CBA, for instance the Bruins owner constantly is the head of lockouts. So with all my points that’ve happened a little more credible than mere speculation on a fan site. Additionally this is all moot as you initially said it’s only 1.9M cap but it’s not just 1.9M it’s 7.66M. Some would say wasting that cap space while contending is poor asset management.
31 mars 2021 à 15 h 55
#15
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Quoting: BStinson
His buyout isn’t just 1.9M, it’s $7,666,667 cash & cap spread over 4 years. Marleau’s buyout was 4M cash & 6.25M cap pre-pandemic for reference. That’s fine if you don’t want to pay the assets required for that buyout but your comment is a bit disingenuous.


Toronto was hard up against the cap when they overpaid for that cap dump. Edmonton has $30M+ in cap space this summer. Their situations are nothing alike.
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31 mars 2021 à 17 h 12
#16
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Quoting: CD282
Toronto was hard up against the cap when they overpaid for that cap dump. Edmonton has $30M+ in cap space this summer. Their situations are nothing alike.

It’s the closest comp. Some differences but no one can provide any other real world example for a comp. So that set the market unless someone else has a comp. Neal’s buyout is more cap and cash but spread out over 4 years but is also during a pandemic and flat cap. I’d also wager less teams have cap to perform this trade than during the Marleau trade. Marc Staal trade is also less cap and a hell of a lot less cash (Rags paid SB) and still returned a second rounder and roster player.
31 mars 2021 à 17 h 51
#17
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Quoting: BStinson
It’s the closest comp. Some differences but no one can provide any other real world example for a comp. So that set the market unless someone else has a comp. Neal’s buyout is more cap and cash but spread out over 4 years but is also during a pandemic and flat cap. I’d also wager less teams have cap to perform this trade than during the Marleau trade. Marc Staal trade is also less cap and a hell of a lot less cash (Rags paid SB) and still returned a second rounder and roster player.

My point is that the Oilers don't NEED to make this trade, they have the cap space to do the buyout themselves.
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31 mars 2021 à 18 h 6
#18
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Quoting: CD282
My point is that the Oilers don't NEED to make this trade, they have the cap space to do the buyout themselves.

That’s fine. My whole point is the other poster said it was only 1.9M and that’s clearly wrong. If Edmonton wants to take dead space for 4 years then by all means. Other teams aren’t lining up to take on dead cap for multiple years for minimal value.
1 avr. 2021 à 10 h 47
#19
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Quoting: CD282
My point is that the Oilers don't NEED to make this trade, they have the cap space to do the buyout themselves.


10000000%
1 avr. 2021 à 10 h 48
#20
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Quoting: BStinson
That’s fine. My whole point is the other poster said it was only 1.9M and that’s clearly wrong. If Edmonton wants to take dead space for 4 years then by all means. Other teams aren’t lining up to take on dead cap for multiple years for minimal value.


That is exactly what I said, its only 1,9 per year on buyout and Oilers will eat it and keep their assets that they are finally accruing.
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1 avr. 2021 à 11 h 49
#21
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Quoting: Copenhagen
That is exactly what I said, its only 1,9 per year on buyout and Oilers will eat it and keep their assets that they are finally accruing.

Where did you say this? I quoted this. Because “it’s only 1.9M” isn’t the same when it’s a recurring charge. You also didn’t say Edmonton doesn’t have to do this but rather the price is absurd.

Quoting: Copenhagen
Oilers decline. We do not need any more D and cant even find room for the D we have.
Nurse/Barrie
Laggesson/Larsson
Russell/Bear
Jones/Bouchard
Lennstom

Neal's Buyout is only 1.9 and we certainly will not be giving a first for him. A first for 1.9 million is ridiculous.

Bernier would be nice to have, but we have Stalock who is pretty good and we will see what we have with him when he gets into the lineup.

Glendening is great on the face offs and is still pretty good. But is he really an upgrade over Khaira or Hass who both play the PK?


And responded with the actual figures (see below) and even said if you don’t want to pay fine but say that.
Quoting: BStinson
His buyout isn’t just 1.9M, it’s $7,666,667 cash & cap spread over 4 years. Marleau’s buyout was 4M cash & 6.25M cap pre-pandemic for reference. That’s fine if you don’t want to pay the assets required for that buyout but your comment is a bit disingenuous.

You then went on some irrelevant tangent about cash which I provided real world examples to debunk your assumption.
1 avr. 2021 à 12 h 8
#22
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Quoting: BStinson
Where did you say this? I quoted this. Because “it’s only 1.9M” isn’t the same when it’s a recurring charge. You also didn’t say Edmonton doesn’t have to do this but rather the price is absurd.


"Neal's Buyout is only 1.9 and we certainly will not be giving a first for him. A first for 1.9 million is ridiculous."
And responded with the actual figures (see below) and even said if you don’t want to pay fine but say that.

You then went on some irrelevant tangent about cash which I provided real world examples to debunk your assumption.


Quoting: BStinson
Where did you say this? I quoted this. Because “it’s only 1.9M” isn’t the same when it’s a recurring charge. You also didn’t say Edmonton doesn’t have to do this but rather the price is absurd.



And responded with the actual figures (see below) and even said if you don’t want to pay fine but say that.

You then went on some irrelevant tangent about cash which I provided real world examples to debunk your assumption.


"Neal's Buyout is only 1.9 and we certainly will not be giving a first for him. A first for 1.9 million is ridiculous."

Said it right here. Right on the top.
1 avr. 2021 à 12 h 17
#23
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Quoting: Copenhagen
"Neal's Buyout is only 1.9 and we certainly will not be giving a first for him. A first for 1.9 million is ridiculous."

Said it right here. Right on the top.

It’s not only 1.9M, it’s $7,666,667. Its for multiple years, which is why I said it’s disingenuous. What if Detroit trades you a deadcap space of 2M for 10 years, would I say it’s only 2M? Nor did you say in that quote Edmonton doesn’t need to do it.
1 avr. 2021 à 12 h 28
#24
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Quoting: BStinson
It’s not only 1.9M, it’s $7,666,667. Its for multiple years, which is why I said it’s disingenuous. What if Detroit trades you a deadcap space of 2M for 10 years, would I say it’s only 2M? Nor did you say in that quote Edmonton doesn’t need to do it.


Dude are you new here. Everyone on this site knows how the buy out works and where to find it on this site. Look at my past posts. I have probably brought it up 100 times. And yes certainly if Detroit trades me dead cap space 2 m for 10 years I would say its only 2 years. Because like I said the actual money doesnt matter. Its all about the cap space. This is pro sport and its about winning. NOT MONEY. If the owner has a budget and the team follows it, the actual money doesnt matter. Like what is so hard for you to figure this out. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE CAP SPACE. His buy out is 1.9 million per year, if I have to be that specific for you, you shouldnt be on this site. Example, do you need a no parking sign on every single spot on the street or is 1 good for an area.
1 avr. 2021 à 12 h 59
#25
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Quoting: Copenhagen
Dude are you new here. Everyone on this site knows how the buy out works and where to find it on this site. Look at my past posts. I have probably brought it up 100 times. And yes certainly if Detroit trades me dead cap space 2 m for 10 years I would say its only 2 years. Because like I said the actual money doesnt matter. Its all about the cap space. This is pro sport and its about winning. NOT MONEY. If the owner has a budget and the team follows it, the actual money doesnt matter. Like what is so hard for you to figure this out. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE CAP SPACE. His buy out is 1.9 million per year, if I have to be that specific for you, you shouldnt be on this site. Example, do you need a no parking sign on every single spot on the street or is 1 good for an area.

Dude me being new on this site has nothing to do with my knowledge of business or hockey. There are multiple forums... I also routinely educate individuals about the CBA on this site.

You may have brought it up 100 times but I don’t go through your entire history or read minds when I read a post. You didn’t post it in this ACGM.

I’ve already debunked your assumption of cap/cash with factual events. You can assume all you want but you have no evidence to support your claim so I’ll take facts over feelings any day of the week.

When you go buy a vehicle does the sales person say that brand new F150 is $500 or $500 a month for X months? Because X could be 48 or 72 and they’re completely different. You should be specific as people aren’t mind readers and you’re commenting to either provide an argument or articulate a point.
 
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