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(TOR/CBJ) - Lehtonen for Vehvilainen

Who won the trade?
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13 mars 2021 à 9 h 32
#51
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Quoting: pharrow
I don't know what's funnier, the Mikko Lehtonen apparently didn't single handedly reconstruct the leafs defense comments, or the "leafs logic" about how and why this trade happened.
If you would have asked these same leafs fans about Vehvilainen a couple days ago, they would have said, "he's a struggling AHL goalie, he's not worth Lehtonen."
But now he has "enormous potential."

Trade of two guys, neither one of which is more than a replacement level backup.


The answer is neither, the funniest thing is how all the Leafs haters are ignorant to how benificial this trade is for Toronto, which is evident to anyone who looks at the facts. Since Shanahan, Dubas, and Keefe took over, the goaltending staff in Toronto is very good, as many people have stated. I have also stated other facts in my first post. (It's #11 and the trade is #1 from the top)
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13 mars 2021 à 10 h 8
#52
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Modifié 26 juin 2021 à 9 h 41
Don't think the Leafs mistreated him. Even if they might've, it can't be worse than Vegas and Shipachyov. I don't think we will see another quality KHL player sign with them for awhile
13 mars 2021 à 10 h 45
#53
You know nothing JS
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Quoting: ConnorMcHellebucyk
im not bashing him in the least. this move makes me think Andersen wants out as opposed to the team wanting Andersen to leave. why would they aquire yet another goalie? it makes no sense. this summer they signed Dell even though they have a capable backup... it might not mean anything but thats my hypothesis.


Oh Im not saying you are bashing him. But Toronto's medias/fans base have been doing it for years. So they shouldn't be surprised he want out now...

We will be the best goalie on the UFA market for sure and Seattle should make him an offer he cant refuse.
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13 mars 2021 à 10 h 53
#54
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Quoting: exo2769
I actually agree that it could be worse. It can always be worse.

I imagine a pretty standard conversation occurred. Player- I just want a fair shot and an opportunity to prove myself.
GM- the best players play. Everyone gets a fair shot.

Then plays 9 games out of 28 and thinks to himself...ive been in less than a third of the games...why did I ever come here? Its a very real thought and neither side is 100% wrong.

Yes hes a pending UFA. Guess what, he was last year too. Thats my point. Look at the Hawks. 7 or 8 Euros getting multi million dollar contracts the last few years. That's an example Euro's can look to and see a track record of something working out. Not sorry you didn't even get to play in 1/3 of our games.


My guy.


He's 26 and he didn't make the team in his first 2 months here.

That's not a Maple Leafs development problem. It's depth at LD.


Rielly
Muzzin
Dermott
Sandin
Lehtonen
Rosen
Marty


No player in any organization is getting pity minutes in the NHL (not even Chicago).

Now he gets another chance somewhere else and Toronto gets a free prospect.

No one is 'wrong' because nothing 'wrong' happened. Everyone is happy.

Dubas would've obviously liked to keep Lehtonen for playoff depth.

But he made the best decision for Lehtonen and his agent instead.

And that's why his agent keeps sending Euros to Toronto.
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13 mars 2021 à 11 h 2
#55
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Quoting: drewjenkins
My guy.


He's 26 and he didn't make the team in his first 2 months here.

That's not a Maple Leafs development problem. It's depth at LD.


Rielly
Muzzin
Dermott
Sandin
Lehtonen
Rosen
Marty


No player in any organization is getting pity minutes in the NHL (not even Chicago).

Now he gets another chance somewhere else and Toronto gets a free prospect.

No one is 'wrong' because nothing 'wrong' happened. Everyone is happy.

Dubas would've obviously liked to keep Lehtonen for playoff depth.

But he made the best decision for Lehtonen and his agent instead.

And that's why his agent keeps sending Euros to Toronto.


You're missing the point completely. You're A.) overlooking the 1st failure...it didn't work out. That IS failure. and B.) Saying...BUT despite Lehtonen not working out...everyone else should forget all the Euro failures and still keep coming here.

How is "everyone happy"? How is Lehtonen happy? Do you think he looks back at those 9 games out of 28 and says...yup, I made the right choice? Do you think he looks back on his time in TOR as a win? Of course the answer is no, it was a failure. He wanted to come to the NHL and make an impact. To say otherwise is...incorrect. WITH THAT SAID, Dubas did try to salvage a bad situation (only time will tell if he was successful) ...he did trade Lehtonen, but two wrongs don't make a right. It has to be a factor. That's all I'm saying. If I'm a Euro...do I want to go to a place with a proven track record of success or no?
13 mars 2021 à 11 h 15
#56
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Quoting: exo2769
You're missing the point completely. You're A.) overlooking the 1st failure...it didn't work out. That IS failure. and B.) Saying...BUT despite Lehtonen not working out...everyone else should forget all the Euro failures and still keep coming here.

How is "everyone happy"? How is Lehtonen happy? Do you think he looks back at those 9 games out of 28 and says...yup, I made the right choice? Do you think he looks back on his time in TOR as a win? Of course the answer is no, it was a failure. He wanted to come to the NHL and make an impact. To say otherwise is...incorrect. WITH THAT SAID, Dubas did try to salvage a bad situation (only time will tell if he was successful) ...he did trade Lehtonen, but two wrongs don't make a right. It has to be a factor. That's all I'm saying. If I'm a Euro...do I want to go to a place with a proven track record of success or no?


Signing a free player that 10 other NHL teams pursued, trying him out, and then trading for a free prospect is a "huge failure"? Hahahahaahahhahahaahah.

Lehtonen's clearly happy. Even after not making the team he gets an immediate second chance. because his GM helped him instead of hoarding depth.

"Failure failure failure" yeah every undrafted signing must become an NHL star right away or it's a "huge failure"! Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

You have a future in the dramatic arts my friend.
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13 mars 2021 à 11 h 25
#57
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Quoting: drewjenkins
Signing a free player that 10 other NHL teams pursued, trying him out, and then trading for a free prospect is a "huge failure"? Hahahahaahahhahahaahah.

Lehtonen's clearly happy. Even after not making the team he gets an immediate second chance. because his GM helped him instead of hoarding depth.

"Failure failure failure" yeah every undrafted signing must become an NHL star right away or it's a "huge failure"! Hahahahahahahahahahaha.

You have a future in the dramatic arts my friend.


Yeah, I do think playing 9 games out of 28 is a failure... You can think that's a success all you want. Cheers!
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13 mars 2021 à 12 h 15
#58
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Columbus likely has the better chance of getting some real value out of this deal, so I would say they win it, but the Leafs don't really lose anything here. Lehtonen currently was not stepping in and improving them team when he played over Dermott, and he was taking ice time away from guys like Liljegren and Sandin. He would not have returned next year, and not giving him a chance to go play somewhere likely avoids doing too much damage to the Leafs reputation as a desirable landing spot for European UFAs. They get a wildcard goalie prospect, which is a developmental need, but more likely than not, he's AHL depth in the long run. Goalie prospects often feel like lottery tickets, and there the age at when they start to really come into their own really varies, so more definitely doesn't hurt.

If Lehtonen thrives in Columbus, it doesn't change anything for how you evaluate this deal for the Leafs, as there are just 28 games left to figure out what Lehtonen is before he can walk away, so keeping him likely just gets you nothing and damages the reputation they have built about how they treat overseas players.
13 mars 2021 à 12 h 35
#59
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Quoting: exo2769
Yeah, I do think playing 9 games out of 28 is a failure... You can think that's a success all you want. Cheers!


I guess it's a failure in terms of it didn't work out, but it doesn't really point to an issue that is of any concern. The Leafs have undoubtedly built a reputation as a good landing spot for European UFAs, they have been accommodating, have their share of success stories, and when things don't work out they will typically try to find the player a place where they will get a better shot. You really can't ask for much more. This season created some very specific challenges as they didn't get a full training camp or any exhibition games, and the Leafs D was far deeper than it has been pretty much since the first lockout. In a shortened season they really tried to experiment, but in a shortened season, you aren't going to just keep using a player who isn't playing as well as additional options. There was likely a conversation had where he said he didn't want to get sent to the AHL just to get minutes, so they accommodated a trade. Doesn't seem to be anything that should have been handled drastically different.
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13 mars 2021 à 12 h 42
#60
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Quoting: Danny12357
I guess it's a failure in terms of it didn't work out, but it doesn't really point to an issue that is of any concern. The Leafs have undoubtedly built a reputation as a good landing spot for European UFAs, they have been accommodating, have their share of success stories, and when things don't work out they will typically try to find the player a place where they will get a better shot. You really can't ask for much more. This season created some very specific challenges as they didn't get a full training camp or any exhibition games, and the Leafs D was far deeper than it has been pretty much since the first lockout. In a shortened season they really tried to experiment, but in a shortened season, you aren't going to just keep using a player who isn't playing as well as additional options. There was likely a conversation had where he said he didn't want to get sent to the AHL just to get minutes, so they accommodated a trade. Doesn't seem to be anything that should have been handled drastically different.


I'm just saying, I'm curious is Lehtonen feels the same. It's the player that chose to go to TOR. I'm clearly not Lehtonen, but I find it hard to believe he doesn't regret that decision. The team Point of View means quite a bit less than the players because it's the player that chose to go to TOR. All I've ever said...is that for a pending UFA coming over...it's a factor. Put 1% or 99% or anywhere in between. It's a non zero%
13 mars 2021 à 16 h 25
#61
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Quoting: ConnorMcHellebucyk
andersen definitely walks


Better off not paying him 6x6 anyway. We've seen so many young, affordable Goalies emerge this year that you really have to ask, why are teams still overpaying veteran Goalies who are trending in the wrong direction?
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13 mars 2021 à 17 h 5
#62
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Jarmo just said that Columbus (mostly himself) had been watching Lehtonen for years and tried to sign him, but with the Columbus d core (adding Murray and Nuttivaara from when he was able to sign before the bubble) he chose to go to Toronto where he could get a better chance to play. He also went on to say that Vehvilainen had been passed up on the depth chart by other guys, notably Kivlenieks and Tarosov (when he gets here from the KHL). So it was a depth swap for two teams who could use a fresh start and a little less competition for playing time.
13 mars 2021 à 17 h 18
#63
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Quoting: LeafsForLife
The answer is neither, the funniest thing is how all the Leafs haters are ignorant to how benificial this trade is for Toronto, which is evident to anyone who looks at the facts. Since Shanahan, Dubas, and Keefe took over, the goaltending staff in Toronto is very good, as many people have stated. I have also stated other facts in my first post. (It's #11 and the trade is #1 from the top)


#leafs logic.
15 mars 2021 à 15 h 19
#64
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Quoting: exo2769
I'm just saying, I'm curious is Lehtonen feels the same. It's the player that chose to go to TOR. I'm clearly not Lehtonen, but I find it hard to believe he doesn't regret that decision. The team Point of View means quite a bit less than the players because it's the player that chose to go to TOR. All I've ever said...is that for a pending UFA coming over...it's a factor. Put 1% or 99% or anywhere in between. It's a non zero%


It's absolutely a factor, the reality is as a team has fewer holes to fill, it means less guarantees for playing time, which is going to impact the ability to lure top free agents. I think the Leafs salvage their rep a little by moving him rather than letting him rot. Not sure there is anything else they should do, but not pursuing free agents at a potential area of need isn't the right move, and I don't think it's a systemic thing in their organization that was at fault. Unless the Leafs lose some depth on D quickly, I doubt they will be a top destination for an incoming free agent next time around. All they can continue to do is treat the guys that come over as fairly as possible, and keep a good relationship with agents. After that, you can't do a whole lot.
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26 juin 2021 à 0 h 51
#65
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From the looks of things got to think Toronto has won this

Vehvilainen looked really pretty good on a bad marlies team getting better as time went on. Gonna be watching him closely as its probs gonna be him and Woll as the tandem next year. Could be a good back up for 2023 or 2024

Lehtonen probs going back to the KHL like Nesterov did. But if he signs a 1 year deal with CBJ hope he does well
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