Better scouting

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Banni

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Quoting: SammyT_51

Those are not Dubas' draft picks tho. Dubas and his scouting team are amazing..

Yeah I know, its Burke, Nonis, Fletcher, Lamoriello, alot of incompetence. Although Lou did draft Matthews (no brainer really), dumped Phaneuf, and traded for Andersen so I'll give him some credit.

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20 févr. 2021 à 8 h 17

Sean4417

The 1 True GM

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These 'what if' scenarios are flawed in so many ways it is ridiculous to any thought into these.

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20 févr. 2021 à 8 h 18

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Banni

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Quoting: Sean4417

These 'what if' scenarios are flawed in so many ways it is ridiculous to any thought into these.

how so?

20 févr. 2021 à 8 h 42

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Quoting: SammyT_51

Those are not Dubas' draft picks tho. Dubas and his scouting team are amazing..

Based on what results? So far none of those picks have turned into NHLers. Fans are high on the prospects but thats pretty much a given for every team regardless of who the prospects are.

Its hard to call a team who hasn't produced a single NHL player in 3 drafts good drafters.

20 févr. 2021 à 8 h 52

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Banni

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Quoting: Byrr

In all fairness, the 2019 1st rounder turned into Muzzin, a great top 4 dman. And I'd be shocked if Robertson and Sandin didn't turn into at least average full time NHL players, but I think they have a higher ceiling, but yes they are just prospects at the moment. Where in the picks I mentioned, only Dermott is a regular NHL player, and all the players they missed out on are star or above average players.

20 févr. 2021 à 8 h 54

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Quoting: Leafsfaninvancity

In all fairness, the 2019 1st rounder turned into Muzzin, a great top 4 dman. And I'd be shocked if Robertson and Sandin didn't turn into at least average full time NHL players, but I think they have a higher ceiling. Where in the picks I mentioned, only Dermott is a regular NHL player, and all the players they missed out on are star or above average players.

Im just saying that so far, those Burke, Lamoriello, Nonis, whoever you want to call them, drafts were more successful than Dubas has been. Even if you account for 3 years after the drafts took place, they produced players 5 players to Dubas' teams 0. If you take out the high 1sts, its still Connor Brown and Travis Dermott to Dubas' 0.

The only difference between the 2 draft teams so far is your perception of them.

20 févr. 2021 à 8 h 55

exo2769

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Quoting: Leafsfaninvancity

how so?

Becauae guys like Aho and Debrincat were 2nd rounders. Its not like TOR was alone in passing them up. Maybe sometimes players continue to grow at different rates and it might still be a legit question to think. So this Debrincat guy played with McDavid, Dylan Strome, Anthony Cirelli, and Taylor Raddysh during his time in Erie. Maybe being with the #1oa and #3oa helped him a bit? I don't think that's an unreasonable question to ask yourself.

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20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 1

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Banni

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Quoting: Byrr

Im just saying that so far, those Burke, Lamoriello, Nonis, whoever you want to call them, drafts were more successful than Dubas has been. Even if you account for 3 years after the drafts took place and take out the high 1sts, they produced players like Dermott and Brown to Dubas' teams 0.

The only difference between the 2 draft teams so far is your perception of them.

Yes but how long did it take to develop those players? Yeah Brown, Komorov, Johnsson all later round picks that turned out great, but it took a while. Dubas hasn't had that long term window yet to see where his prospects are going. I'm not calling Dubas Steve Yzerman, but he definately deserves more time. And I don't think you can count the 2020 draft, where literally only 2 players are in the NHL right now, its very early. So it's really 2 drafts for Dubas.

20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 3

#10

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Banni

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Quoting: exo2769

I did mention that TO wasn't the only team that passed on them, but Toronto aside from some high lottery picks (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly) has been abismal at drafting late first/early second round for a long time.

20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 3

#11

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Modifié 20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 18

Quoting: Leafsfaninvancity

It took under 3 years, which is why I said if you look at how they fared after 3 years. So far none of Dubas' picks in 2018 have turned into NHL regulars, even his first rounder, which I discounted for the Burke, etc, teams, Sandin. Dermott specifically only took 2 years but if we look at Dubas' 2019 draft, hes still batting a .000 .

It would be an interesting exercise to see how many teams have produced 0 NHLers from their last 3 drafts. The list won't be long and the Leafs will be on it.

20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 10

#12

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yeah, this is basically a what if Brian Burke, Lou and Hunter weren't bad drafters

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20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 15

#13

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Banni

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Quoting: Byrr

It took under 3 years, which is why I said if you look at how they fared after 3 years. So far none of Dubas' picks in 2017 have turned into NHL regulars, even his first rounder, which I discounted for the Burke, etc, teams, Sandin. Dermott specifically only took 2 years but if we look at Dubas' 2018 draft, hes still batting a .000 .

It would be an interesting exercise to see how many teams have produced 0 NHLers from their last 4 drafts. The list won't be long and the Leafs will be on it.

Connor Brown took 4 years to become a full regular, he made his pro debut in 3, but so has Liljegren and Sandin, and Robertson. Komarov took 8 years, Johnsson 6 years to become full time. I'm a bit tired, so maybe I'm missing something? Again aside from those elite lottery picks, I can't think of too many picks that have turned into NHL players at all, nevermind in 3 years. I'll give Burke credit for the Schenn/JVR trade, but that pick was horrible with what was available.

20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 16

#14

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Quoting: Byrr

It took under 3 years, which is why I said if you look at how they fared after 3 years. So far none of Dubas' picks in 2017 have turned into NHL regulars, even his first rounder, which I discounted for the Burke, etc, teams, Sandin. Dermott specifically only took 2 years but if we look at Dubas' 2018 draft, hes still batting a .000 .

It would be an interesting exercise to see how many teams have produced 0 NHLers from their last 3 drafts. The list won't be long and the Leafs will be on it.

Why is Dubas getting stuffed for a draft where he wasnt GM? 2017 was Lou at the helm so that draft's on him

20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 17

#15

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Quoting: JaredOfLondon

Why is Dubas getting stuffed for a draft where he wasnt GM? 2017 was Lou at the helm so that draft's on him

I specificed 2017 rather than 2018. You probably should have picked up on that when I specified Sandin who was picked in 2018 while Liljegren was picked in 2017.

20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 20

#16

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Banni

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Quoting: JaredOfLondon

Why is Dubas getting stuffed for a draft where he wasnt GM? 2017 was Lou at the helm so that draft's on him

No I think he's saying 18,19,20 drafts.2020 is way too early anyways for me

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20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 24

#17

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Quoting: Byrr

I specificed 2017 rather than 2018. You probably should have picked up on that when I specified Sandin who was picked in 2018 while Liljegren was picked in 2017.

ok, so if you are using Sandin, and the 2018 draft then that's a whole different ball game because there are tons of NHL teams who dont have a guy more established than Sandin drafted since
St Louis, Vegas, Tampa, San Jose, Pittsburgh, Phoenix, Minnisota, Florida, Calgary, Columbus

vancouver has 1 (a top 10 pick), Ottawa has 1 (top 5 pick), Jersey has 1 (1st over all), Montreal 1 (3rd over all) and carolina has 1 (the 2nd over all pick)

and that's just the teams i checked out. So, as a drafter, Dubas is lookin league average at worst in his tenure as GM.

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20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 31

#18

SadSensFan14

MOVE THE COYOTES

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Wow this works cap wise.

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20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 32

#19

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Banni

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Quoting: JaredOfLondon

And also keep in mind the main reason I think Sandin, Robertson, and maybe even Liljegren aren't in the NHL right now is the depth on the Leafs roster. Take away Thorton, Simmonds, Spezza, Dermott, Vesey, Bogosian, I can definately see them playing right now.

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20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 33

#20

Trevorchef

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Quoting: Leafsfaninvancity

how so?

Because the draft position likely changes with every significant swap out year to year.

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20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 36

#21

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Quoting: Leafsfaninvancity

heck, Robertson made the team out of camp but got hurt.

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20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 37

#22

SadSensFan14

MOVE THE COYOTES

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Quoting: Leafsfaninvancity

But it's better that way.

20 févr. 2021 à 9 h 39

#23