For the sake of total rebuild

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What in tarnation

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Quoting: Zmach

Yeah but to Toronto a player that has never made a mistake in any game ever is worth Two ekblads lol.

So you're implying that there's an in-team Marner bias in the Leafs.

Makes sense.

27 janv. 2021 à 18 h 46

#27

DirtyDangle

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Quoting: justaBoss

yeah I noticed the mistake. I intended it to be a 50% retention but I messed up. It should be $2,95M.

either way it's a steal for a player of his caliber.

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27 janv. 2021 à 18 h 47

#28

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Quoting: justaBoss

I agree and disagree.

I do think that now that their window is more open for success than probably with any team in the league, and Huberdeau would make this window even wider right now.

Keeping Byram is not really effecting on that right now, he isn't even making it constantly in the lineup.

Their contracts are both two year deals from the next year on - with Byram naturally being the one who's rights they can keep for longer time.

Regardless in two or three years time they will be in a cap hell - and Byram also will need an extension by that point.

So honestly they're going to struggle with money in two years time no matter which one they have in their roster, Huberdeau or Byram.

It's a matter of thinking is it worth taking the highest likelihoods of winning the cup now - or banking on slightly higher odds in a few years time. Keeping Byram or taking in Huberdeau is unlikely to affect to the length of their window of success, really.

Byram was in quarantine from juniors and he is going to be a staple going forward. Not thinking he effects the window is silly, in 4 games he has already shown game changing ability at both ends of the ice. His skating on the back end with Makar, Toews and Girard’s is already a nightmare for teams to handle.

Cap hell in 2 years is lazy fan speak for they have to sign Makar and Landeskog, with giving no thought to the contracts coming off the books, PEB, Calvert, Nichushkin, they’ll lose another contract in the XD. The cap isn’t going to stay flat forever with expansion and a new TV deal, but even if they did, Byrams ELC and team control with no arbitration rights is significantly more valuable than 2 years of Huberdeau.

The Avs will be fine with money until MacKinnon’s extension comes then hard decisions and ELC’s and players under team control are more important.

It’s a fast, hard, and easy no for the Avs. Byram is untouchable basically.

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27 janv. 2021 à 18 h 52

#29

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What in tarnation

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Quoting: Xqb15a

I'm talking two years from this post. MacKinnon, Huberdeau and Byram all have their contracts expiring. That's when the cap hell truly begins.

Byram is not going to particularly effect their window of success during 2021-22 and 2022-23 seasons in the same way that Huberdeau would. In 2023-24 when MacKinnon and Byram get extended, COL is going to be a weaker team as they are losing money. It's premature to predict what the team will look like then, but it's easy to assume that the money is gonna be very, very tight.

This is why I'd invest on the guy while MacKinnon is playing dirt cheap. COL defense can take losing Byram (he frankly hasn't even appeared there yet), but adding Huberdeau would be massive.

27 janv. 2021 à 18 h 54

#30

KeepUps15

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who gives a **** that Byram isn't on the market, this is a highway robbery for the Avs. A 90 point player at 2.85mil is a straight up steal

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27 janv. 2021 à 18 h 55

#31

Alfie11

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Not sure Vegas wants to trade Tuch, he’s worth more than Tierney was at the time of the EK65 trade. Also at that time EK65 was like a year removed from being the best player in the world in the 2017 playoffs, Barkov’s obviously elite and C is very valuable but EK65 at that time would have been worth more than Barkov is now imo. I think Stephenson would make more sense instead of Tuch, and maybe a young fringe D instead of Roy. I could see Calgary offer a package in a similar vein (Bennett+Zary+Kylington+1st+2nd+conditional pick or two) for Barkov.

27 janv. 2021 à 18 h 56

#32

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Quoting: keep_ups12

who gives a **** that Byram isn't on the market, this is a highway robbery for the Avs. A 90 point player at 2.85mil is a straight up steal

My thoughts exactly.

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27 janv. 2021 à 19 h 1

#33

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Quoting: Alfie11

If Karlsson had been traded a year earlier I would've agreed with you. But his last year with Ottawa was a bit of a struggle, both off and on ice. Negotiating issues with Melnyk and all the jazz with Hoffman. Also didn't his unborn child die or something like that as well?

It unfortunately affected his level of play, and while his level of play decreased naturally his value did too. This is why the package SJ gave for him looked quite meh at the time. Naturally OTT afterwards came to look like a big winner of that trade, but no one could've predicted the dive SJ was to make then.

With Barkov there's none such issues, also it hasn't even been made clear he'd want to leave the team at all. In this post I'm just making the assumption that he might leave, and thus take a good offer for the guy to guarantee they won't get left with anything. Tuch as a long-term asset for example is absolutely ideal.

Realistically if Barkov said something about wanting to leave the team, FLA would likely deal the guy during this year and gain almost max value out of the guy, which is more than offered here.

27 janv. 2021 à 19 h 14

#34

John 3 16

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Quoting: coga16

but he has 2 years left....that is the point here. Byram is going to be a stud for the Avs for the next decade with Makar. The impact of Byram will outweigh the 2 years of Huberdeau bc he can not be extended on the Avs.

Like other avs fans have said, newhook is the value piece Panthers can ask from the Avs in this type of deal, other than that. Considering PLD who has still team control left as an RFA, all the teams involved wouldn't move a Suzuki, or a Newhook (CBJ asked and avs wouldn't do it)....tough sell right now for thse top end prospect or guys like Byram or Suzuki on their ELCs.

Where did you hear that CBJ asked for Newhook?

I don't doubt it, I just haven't seen anything official on that.

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27 janv. 2021 à 19 h 19

#35

John 3 16

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Quoting: justaBoss

Byram won't be leaving the lineup, so yes, he IS constantly in the lineup. In fact, last night he got the most ice time of anyone on the entire Avs roster.

You're also overlooking the fact that Dmen are more impactful on a game than wingers are, so long-term you'd want Byram rather than Huberdeau. If Huberdeau was a C then it would be another story, but building a team around three highly paid wingers in Landeskog, Rantanen, and Huberdeau is not a recipe for success. We'd also likely have to let Burakovsky walk in UFA in 2022, and points wise the difference between Burakovsky and Huberdeau on the 2nd line is not really worth giving up Byram.

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27 janv. 2021 à 19 h 23

#36

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Quoting: Richard88

Assuming under $3M is highly paid.

It goes without saying that Avs can't re-sign Huberdeau after the two year time span expires, unless they commit on some major cap gymnastics.

It's about confirming that during this two year time span Avs have the highest chance on taking two cups home. And I do think Huberdeau would be a bigger factor in this than Byram is.

Byram's rights might be on hold for Avs for a longer period, but there's no telling what kind of contract he's getting after this ELC expires. And the timetable of Huberdeau becoming an UFA and Byram's ELC expiring is exactly the same.

27 janv. 2021 à 19 h 25

#37

John 3 16

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Quoting: justaBoss

I'm talking two years from this post. MacKinnon, Huberdeau and Byram all have their contracts expiring. That's when the cap hell truly begins.

Byram is not going to particularly effect their window of success during 2021-22 and 2022-23 seasons in the same way that Huberdeau would. In 2023-24 when MacKinnon and Byram get extended, COL is going to be a weaker team as they are losing money. It's premature to predict what the team will look like then, but it's easy to assume that the money is gonna be very, very tight.

This is why I'd invest on the guy while MacKinnon is playing dirt cheap. COL defense can take losing Byram (he frankly hasn't even appeared there yet), but adding Huberdeau would be massive.

I'm not so sure Byram couldn't have a similar on-ice impact as Huberdeau.

Byram has played 4 games and has already been promoted to the 2nd D pair with Girard, as well as the PP and some PK time. He looks every bit as capable as Makar when he broke in, and Byram's two-way game might actually make him even more impactful in the next 2 years than Makar has been in his first 2 years.

Huberdeau would be a supporting player on this Avs team as a winger on the 2nd line, and isn't even guaranteed to be on PP1 the way Mackinnon/Rantanen are playing. Whereas Byram as a top 4 all situations Dman would be central to everything that happens on the ice. There's a reason why Dmen are so much more coveted than wingers after all.

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27 janv. 2021 à 19 h 26

#38

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Quoting: justaBoss

You have no idea what the effect of Byram is going to be, it could be Makar like. By the same token there is no guarantee Huberdeau even gels with MacKinnon, then your talking about trading an elite talent in Byram for a 2nd line winger. I’ll take MacKinnon, and Byram under team control for the next 7 years over 2 yrs of Huberdeau and MacKinnon. It’s an easy no, I would bet a dozen donuts if he had to answer the question who are your core untouchable players he’d say MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Byram, Landeskog and Newhook and probably in that order.

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27 janv. 2021 à 19 h 27

#39

John 3 16

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Quoting: justaBoss

Colorado would still own Byram's rights when the contract expires, so he can be bridged at a reasonable caphit, similar to other guys like McAvoy or Sergachev.

Huberdeau on the other hand is going to be an UFA and will want max dollars and term.

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27 janv. 2021 à 19 h 28

#40

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Quoting: Richard88

I think it's sort of cute that you would bank on Byram having as high impact as Makar to COL success based on 4 games he has played there compared to Huberdeau who is consistently an almost 100 point winger in a garbage team.

Just saying, the perks of having a franchise level winger at his peak for a contending team are exponentially higher than what they are of a rookie D-man playing his first games - although in an impressive manner.

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27 janv. 2021 à 19 h 29

#41

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Quoting: Richard88

It depends on Makar really. If you truly believe Byram to have a same kind of impact as you said in the earlier post, then Makar's new contract will become the comparable for Byram.

27 janv. 2021 à 19 h 32

#42

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Quoting: Xqb15a

It's truly mesmerizing how high some fans are on their prospects. You COL fans rival the Habs and Leafs fans sometimes with how asinine you sometimes sound.

If I had to pick between maximizing my chances during my window of success, or long-term building a relatively consistent team, I'm taking my chances when they're at their highest. Two potential cups is better than 6 years in the top8 of the league with zero cups.

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27 janv. 2021 à 19 h 50

#43

Caniac2000

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Quoting: justaBoss

Uhhh, Bean would be the replacement for Fleury? Carolina do not need Gudas

27 janv. 2021 à 19 h 57

#44

DirtyDangle

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byram can be the next makar but huberdeau is a 2nd line winger? really

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27 janv. 2021 à 20 h 50

#45

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Quoting: justaBoss

I’m not overrating Byram. Trading for Huberdeau doesn’t guarantee anything except shorten their window to win.

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28 janv. 2021 à 0 h 30

#46

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Quoting: Xqb15a

I’m not overrating Byram. Trading for Huberdeau doesn’t guarantee anything except shorten their window to win.

The window's length is very much dependent on MacKinnon's next contract.

Now that he's cheap, I'd maximize my chances. Huberdeau's one of the best you can get.

For 2021-22 and 2022-23 Hubby would be unquestionably a 1st line LW for you, likely to score at 100 point rate.

For 2021-22 and 2022-23 Byram is likely to be a 2nd pair D-man, if even that.

It goes without saying which player will have a larger impact during this two year time span.

28 janv. 2021 à 3 h 36

#47

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Quoting: justaBoss

That’s complete supposition on your part. Projecting Huberdeau to 100pts is a joke a when MacKinnon (who would have last but still didn’t) hasn’t done it yet, flatly expecting Huberdeau replaced Landeskog on the best line in hockey and minimizing what Byram will be. The facts, as I’ve stated before Huberdeau doesn’t guarantee anything beyond playing the duration of the contract. Byram the same except cheaper and longer. As @Richard88 pointed out if he’s a center maybe, but you know as well as I do Sakic isn’t trading Byram period.

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28 janv. 2021 à 4 h 1

#48

John 3 16

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Quoting: justaBoss

The thing is, for the Avs to be successful during Byram's ELC he only really needs to play at a consistent top 4 level, because we have 3 other Dmen who are playing at a 1st pairing level right now (Makar, Girard, Toews). So even if Byram is a slow burner or doesn't end up like Makar it's all good. Not saying that I think that will be the case though, as I think he's looking like a do-it-all No.1 Dman in the making, based on an admittedly small sample size.

What you need to realise is that Colorado's cup chances don't completely end just because Johnson's money goes to Mackinnon. It's precisely because we have young guys like Byram and Newhook that the window will be extended, giving us more shots at the cup. And as recent years have shown with Tampa and Washington, it doesn't matter if you are the best team in the league a given year, you still need many goes at the cup before you could win it. Putting all our eggs into a 2 year window would be extremely shortsighted and would unecessarily reduce our cup chances.

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28 janv. 2021 à 4 h 6

#49

John 3 16

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Quoting: justaBoss

It depends on Makar really. If you truly believe Byram to have a same kind of impact as you said in the earlier post, then Makar's new contract will become the comparable for Byram.

It could be a comparable, but the teams cap structure will alter by the time most of our young guys have big contracts, so it's hard to guarantee that Byram will get a big raise just because Makar did. Hedman got a long term deal, but Sergachev had to get bridged. Vasilevsky got a long term deal, but Point got bridged. Stamkos got a long-term deal, Cirelli got bridged. Circumstances change, and you can't always just say that every player will get max term and dollars just because the other guy did.

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28 janv. 2021 à 4 h 8

#50