SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

Other side of a question I asked Sens fans

Créé par: jnowariak
Équipe: 2020-21 Wild du Minnesota
Date de création initiale: 24 janv. 2021
Publié: 24 janv. 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Brown can apparently run a PP and he’s a C. It should be self explanatory. I used Menell as the cost since he’s got real value and he’s boxed out if we hold onto Dumba. Maybe it’s more of a deadline move since it makes more sense if Bonino/Johansson are gone. This seems like a good risk to take.
Transactions
OTT
  1. Menell, Brennan [Liste de réserve]
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2021
Logo de MIN
Logo de PIT
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de PIT
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
2022
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de SJS
Logo de MIN
2023
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2381 500 000 $79 587 757 $0 $1 635 000 $1 912 243 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
AD, AG
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance925 000 $$925K)
AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
7 538 462 $7 538 462 $
AG
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo de Sénateurs d'Ottawa
863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance710 000 $$710K)
C, AG
RFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
3 000 000 $3 000 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
2 875 000 $2 875 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
4 100 000 $4 100 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
2 100 000 $2 100 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
725 000 $725 000 $
C
UFA - 2
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
1 487 500 $1 487 500 $
C
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
1 900 000 $1 900 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
4 500 000 $4 500 000 $
AG, AD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
2 050 000 $2 050 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
7 538 462 $7 538 462 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
7 575 000 $7 575 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
4 166 667 $4 166 667 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
DD
UFA - 3
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
3 666 667 $3 666 667 $
G
UFA - 3
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
2 750 000 $2 750 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 3
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
3 450 000 $3 450 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
725 000 $725 000 $
G
UFA - 2
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
700 000 $700 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
C
UFA - 2
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
785 000 $785 000 $
G
UFA - 2
Équipe de réserve
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
C, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
AG, C
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
C
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
G
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
DD
UFA - 1

Code d'intégration

  • Pour afficher cette équipe sur un autre site Web ou blog, ajoutez ce iFrame à la page appropriée
  • Personnalisez les dimensions dans le code IFrame ci-dessous pour adapter votre site de manière appropriée. Minimum recommandé: 400px.

Texte intégré

Cliquer pour surligner
24 janv. 2021 à 13 h 34
#1
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: janv. 2017
Messages: 19,650
Mentions "j'aime": 8,773
That would be the equivalent to OTT offering Ollie Alsing for Matthew Boldy. Do the math.
24 janv. 2021 à 13 h 37
#2
Serf
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2016
Messages: 3,417
Mentions "j'aime": 1,461
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You think Brown is worth some undrafted depth defenceman? WHy do you want Brown if that's how you value him?
Gofnut999 a aimé ceci.
24 janv. 2021 à 13 h 40
#3
Démarrer sujet
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 3,892
Mentions "j'aime": 2,794
Quoting: sensibleguy
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You think Brown is worth some undrafted depth defenceman? WHy do you want Brown if that's how you value him?


Are you familiar with Menell? I think this is a reasonable place to start.
24 janv. 2021 à 13 h 41
#4
Démarrer sujet
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 3,892
Mentions "j'aime": 2,794
Quoting: Gofnut999
That would be the equivalent to OTT offering Ollie Alsing for Matthew Boldy. Do the math.


I disagree with your premise that draft position 4 years after said draft is relevant in discussions about the players current upsides.
24 janv. 2021 à 13 h 41
#5
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: janv. 2017
Messages: 19,650
Mentions "j'aime": 8,773
Modifié 24 janv. 2021 à 13 h 50
Quoting: jnowariak
I disagree with your premise that draft position 4 years after said draft is relevant in discussions about the players current upsides.


I did not say anything about draft positions.
24 janv. 2021 à 13 h 48
#6
Démarrer sujet
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 3,892
Mentions "j'aime": 2,794
Quoting: Gofnut999
I did nit say anything about draft positions.


Boldly/Brown drafted around 10. Menell/Alsing undrafted. You are comparing draft position. The difference between Menell and Alsing is that Menell can play as a 5-7 defenseman with the ability to create on the PP.
MNBassman a aimé ceci.
24 janv. 2021 à 13 h 51
#7
Serf
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2016
Messages: 3,417
Mentions "j'aime": 1,461
Quoting: jnowariak
Are you familiar with Menell? I think this is a reasonable place to start.




24 janv. 2021 à 13 h 51
#8
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: janv. 2017
Messages: 19,650
Mentions "j'aime": 8,773
Modifié 24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 2
Quoting: jnowariak
Boldly/Brown drafted around 10. Menell/Alsing undrafted. You are comparing draft position. The difference between Menell and Alsing is that Menell can play as a 5-7 defenseman with the ability to create on the PP.


I am not. You are.

Both deals involve undersized marginal NHL d prospect that are already entering mid 20s and will never be more than roster fillers if they make it at all for high end C prospects. It’s lopsided, significantly.

The fact that you think his ceiling is 5-7 should tell you that.

The fact he went overseas should tell you you are off on his ceiling.

Leave Ottawa out. We will send you Achan for Boldy. He’s almost identical to Mennell. Want to? Fair?
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 7
#9
Démarrer sujet
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 3,892
Mentions "j'aime": 2,794
Quoting: sensibleguy




His play in the KHL is making him look real good. Russo’s tweets are in reference to him playing for MIN, not NA.
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 12
#10
Démarrer sujet
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 3,892
Mentions "j'aime": 2,794
Quoting: Gofnut999
I am not. You are.

Both deals involve undersized marginal NHL d prospect that are already entering mid 20s and will never be more than roster fillers if they make it at all for high end C prospects. It’s lopsided, significantly.

The fact that you think his ceiling is 5-7 should tell you that.

The fact he went overseas should tell you you are off on his ceiling.

Leave Ottawa out. We will send you Achan for Boldy. He’s almost identical to Mennell. Want to? Fair?


The rationale here is that if Brown is as high end as expected, why is he not playing in the NHL in the last year of his ELC? There is either a breakdown in trust in OTT or he’s not as good as advertised, either way it’s not good for him. I believe in Menell enough to replace Dumba if we traded him but I think he’s staying put so I’m willing to bet on Browns upside with a more known quantity. You don’t have to agree with the value.
MNBassman a aimé ceci.
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 13
#11
Serf
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2016
Messages: 3,417
Mentions "j'aime": 1,461
Quoting: jnowariak
His play in the KHL is making him look real good. Russo’s tweets are in reference to him playing for MIN, not NA.


Keep peddling your rhetoric, he has zero value in the NHL right now, zero, so no, you're not getting Logan Brown for him. If you respond again, I'll move you to ignore, because your opinion would be worthless if you keep defending this, worthless, just like Menell.
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 13
#12
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 9,527
Mentions "j'aime": 8,968
Quoting: jnowariak
His play in the KHL is making him look real good. Russo’s tweets are in reference to him playing for MIN, not NA.

So why should we give up anything for him if he’s never gonna play for you? We could just wait until he’s a free agent and then sign him for nothing if we really wanted another 7th D (we have like 5 of those already for the record). You’re not getting a high end C prospect for a garbage D prospect that you don’t even really own.
sensibleguy et Gofnut999 a aimé ceci.
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 16
#13
Démarrer sujet
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 3,892
Mentions "j'aime": 2,794
Quoting: sensibleguy
Keep peddling your rhetoric, he has zero value in the NHL right now, zero, so no, you're not getting Logan Brown for him. If you respond again, I'll move you to ignore, because your opinion would be worthless if you keep defending this, worthless, just like Menell.


Meh, not sure I’d be hurt by going to your ignore pile as much as you are by my suggesting this trade.
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 17
#14
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: janv. 2017
Messages: 19,650
Mentions "j'aime": 8,773
Quoting: jnowariak
The rationale here is that if Brown is as high end as expected, why is he not playing in the NHL in the last year of his ELC? There is either a breakdown in trust in OTT or he’s not as good as advertised, either way it’s not good for him. I believe in Menell enough to replace Dumba if we traded him but I think he’s staying put so I’m willing to bet on Browns upside with a more known quantity. You don’t have to agree with the value.


Or the owner is cheap and putting him into the lineup now means a bigger contract next year whereas leaving him in the AHL as his ELC expires means they sign him cheap next year. After Colin White i’m sure they are in no hurry. Speaking of White, they don’t seem to have a place for him in the lineup making 4M and playing same position so why rush Brown?

You can believe what you want. But 23 year old North Americans don’t go overseas unless they are out of options or realize they are not NHL material and would like a paycheck and a career.
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 21
#15
Démarrer sujet
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 3,892
Mentions "j'aime": 2,794
Quoting: Alfie11
So why should we give up anything for him if he’s never gonna play for you? We could just wait until he’s a free agent and then sign him for nothing if we really wanted another 7th D (we have like 5 of those already for the record). You’re not getting a high end C prospect for a garbage D prospect that you don’t even really own.


He could still play for us though, it’s just unlikely. He’s a smooth skater and can run a PP. He went to the K to get playing time not because he’s not good enough but because he’s behind Dumba and Spurgeon. He’s a fringe #4 defenseman on an average team, meaning he’ll play as a 3rd pair. Calling him a 7th D isn’t really accurate.
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 23
#16
Démarrer sujet
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 3,892
Mentions "j'aime": 2,794
Quoting: Gofnut999
Or the owner is cheap and putting him into the lineup now means a bigger contract next year whereas leaving him in the AHL as his ELC expires means they sign him cheap next year. After Colin White i’m sure they are in no hurry. Speaking of White, they don’t seem to have a place for him in the lineup making 4M and playing same position so why rush Brown?

You can believe what you want. But 23 year old North Americans don’t go overseas unless they are out of options or realize they are not NHL material and would like a paycheck and a career.


Are you trying to say that not playing him was a cap move to stiff him when he gets a new contract? If that’s the case, I would want to leave too.
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 28
#17
Serf
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2016
Messages: 3,417
Mentions "j'aime": 1,461
Done, enjoy not having Menell, or Brown.
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 29
#18
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: janv. 2017
Messages: 19,650
Mentions "j'aime": 8,773
Quoting: jnowariak
Are you trying to say that not playing him was a cap move to stiff him when he gets a new contract? If that’s the case, I would want to leave too.


It’s a factor. But again, where do they play him? White was drafted same year, was given 4m and can’t get into the lineup. Tierney, a quality 3rd center has been playing some wing. There is no room for him. Stepan and Anisimov will likely be dealt at the deadline and then he could step in. They could always deal him. But his trade value is more than fringe player.
MisstheWhalers a aimé ceci.
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 32
#19
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mars 2018
Messages: 6,784
Mentions "j'aime": 1,915
I wouldn't trust Brown to necessarily "run the PP" at the NHL level. Playing AHL and doing it is completely different than doing it in the NHL. He'll be more like a JVR at the NHL level, a net front presence that can top pucks. That being said, Mennell is a decent starting value. A good puck moving d-man with average defensive ability. Anyone undervaluing him just because he went undrafted doesn't know what they're talking about. A lot of good players go ubdrafted, doesn't change that they're good. The issue for Ottawa becomes that they don't need any d-man. They're loaded with prospects. Chabot, Bernard-Docker, Sanderson, Brannstrom, and Thompson are already there that have high ceilings, so it just doesn't fit Ottawa getting one. They need a top 6 centre prospect the most, Brown is likely that. So they just don't have a reason to move him for this. They'd likely only move him for a hugger ceiling centre prospect, something that Minnesota wouldn't do. Just doesn't add up right
jnowariak, RazWild et MNBassman a aimé ceci.
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 33
#20
Hockey Fan13
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: oct. 2019
Messages: 3,914
Mentions "j'aime": 2,487
Well I tend to think Menell is a bit of a underpayment in this case. He use to be considered a bottom pairing guy or even depth but he has improved his stock and could be a 4th defenseman now. The Russo tweet about him being likely gone for good has been walked back some in subsequent podcasts. Bill Guerin even talked about him in the most recent "Straight from the Source", says when he is ready to come back to the US they will talk. Obviously the Wild were not to happy about his decision to go to Russia, but it looks like it was a good decision as the AHL still hasn't started and he has played a lot of meaningful minutes in Russia.
jnowariak et RazWild a aimé ceci.
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 35
#21
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 9,527
Mentions "j'aime": 8,968
Quoting: jnowariak
He could still play for us though, it’s just unlikely. He’s a smooth skater and can run a PP. He went to the K to get playing time not because he’s not good enough but because he’s behind Dumba and Spurgeon. He’s a fringe #4 defenseman on an average team, meaning he’ll play as a 3rd pair. Calling him a 7th D isn’t really accurate.

Did a little research on him and I'd hardly call him a fringe #4. Doesn't seem like he's any better than Reilly, Wolanin, Brannstrom, Coburn, or Josh Brown, which makes him our 9th D at best, probably 10th if you count Zub. And this is a year where we're bad, we've got Sanderson/JBD/Thomson/Kleven on the way. We're not trading a top C prospect with high-end vision and top 6 upside for at best a fringe bottom pair PP2 specialist guy (questionable if he's even that) who has minimal upside due to major deficiencies defensively. Offer a better prospect who might actually be in Brown's league or drop it (think Beckman level).
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 36
#22
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mars 2018
Messages: 6,784
Mentions "j'aime": 1,915
Quoting: Gofnut999
Or the owner is cheap and putting him into the lineup now means a bigger contract next year whereas leaving him in the AHL as his ELC expires means they sign him cheap next year. After Colin White i’m sure they are in no hurry. Speaking of White, they don’t seem to have a place for him in the lineup making 4M and playing same position so why rush Brown?

You can believe what you want. But 23 year old North Americans don’t go overseas unless they are out of options or realize they are not NHL material and would like a paycheck and a career.


That's conceivable false. Players go overseas for various reasons, for all we know contract talks just didn't go his way or Minnesota just wasn't willing to give him the role he wanted. But he's still averaging 0.58 points per game in the AHL which for a d-man is very good. So he clearly has the skill to play in the NHL. But you never know what happens behind the scenes
jnowariak et RazWild a aimé ceci.
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 38
#23
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: janv. 2017
Messages: 19,650
Mentions "j'aime": 8,773
Quoting: Ryminister_27
That's conceivable false. Players go overseas for various reasons, for all we know contract talks just didn't go his way or Minnesota just wasn't willing to give him the role he wanted. But he's still averaging 0.58 points per game in the AHL which for a d-man is very good. So he clearly has the skill to play in the NHL. But you never know what happens behind the scenes



That would be out of options. Minny was the only team that could sign him and things went wrong there leaving Europe as his only choice. 🤷🏻‍♂️
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 43
#24
Démarrer sujet
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 3,892
Mentions "j'aime": 2,794
Quoting: Ryminister_27
I wouldn't trust Brown to necessarily "run the PP" at the NHL level. Playing AHL and doing it is completely different than doing it in the NHL. He'll be more like a JVR at the NHL level, a net front presence that can top pucks. That being said, Mennell is a decent starting value. A good puck moving d-man with average defensive ability. Anyone undervaluing him just because he went undrafted doesn't know what they're talking about. A lot of good players go ubdrafted, doesn't change that they're good. The issue for Ottawa becomes that they don't need any d-man. They're loaded with prospects. Chabot, Bernard-Docker, Sanderson, Brannstrom, and Thompson are already there that have high ceilings, so it just doesn't fit Ottawa getting one. They need a top 6 centre prospect the most, Brown is likely that. So they just don't have a reason to move him for this. They'd likely only move him for a hugger ceiling centre prospect, something that Minnesota wouldn't do. Just doesn't add up right


This is good perspective. I get the feeling something is off between OTT and Brown, especially if he spends most of this year in the AHL. As for the Sens prospects, I know they’re there but I have no idea of potential or timelines so that makes this a starting point. Finally, you haven’t watched any of the Wild PP this year have you? Brown could jump in right now and make it improve, it’s horrendous.
24 janv. 2021 à 14 h 46
#25
Démarrer sujet
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 3,892
Mentions "j'aime": 2,794
Quoting: OutCold13
Well I tend to think Menell is a bit of a underpayment in this case. He use to be considered a bottom pairing guy or even depth but he has improved his stock and could be a 4th defenseman now. The Russo tweet about him being likely gone for good has been walked back some in subsequent podcasts. Bill Guerin even talked about him in the most recent "Straight from the Source", says when he is ready to come back to the US they will talk. Obviously the Wild were not to happy about his decision to go to Russia, but it looks like it was a good decision as the AHL still hasn't started and he has played a lot of meaningful minutes in Russia.


I’m glad you I’ve got another taker of him as a 4th defenseman. I really think BG should be looking into Brown though, he would get unfettered top 6 time here and it fits exactly what we need to do. If Menell is part of that package, I think that’s a good move.
OutCold13 et MNBassman a aimé ceci.
 
Répondre
To create a post please Login or S'inscrire
Question:
Options:
Ajouter une option
Soumettre le sondage