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Center options

Créé par: TanSor
Équipe: 2020-21 Wild du Minnesota
Date de création initiale: 23 janv. 2021
Publié: 23 janv. 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Would have loved to get PLD, but seeing what Winnipeg gave up there is no chance we could compete with an offer like that. Point of this post is to find top 6 center options for the Wild.

KEEP IN MIND:
Assets in each trade are meant to spark conversation and give an idea of what might be on the table. Some proposals are more concrete than others.
Transactions
1.
MIN
  1. Dvorak, Christian
  2. Schmaltz, Nick
Détails additionnels:
ONE of these two for Dumba, but I'd prefer Schmaltz. We'd likely have to add a pick/prospect due to the term on both of their deals.
ARI
  1. Dumba, Matt
Détails additionnels:
Coyotes need help on the blue line
2.
FLA
  1. Beckman, Adam
  2. Boldy, Matthew [Liste de réserve]
  3. Choix de 1e ronde en 2021 (PIT)
Détails additionnels:
Would take a King's ransom. If it's a futures package it would likely have to include the higher of our first's this year along with Rossi or Boldy and another prospect like Khovanov or Beckman.
3.
MIN
  1. Frost, Morgan
  2. Gostisbehere, Shayne
  3. Patrick, Nolan
  4. Choix de 2e ronde en 2021 (PHI)
Détails additionnels:
ONE of Frost or Patrick (NOT BOTH) for Dumba. Maybe a 1st or 2nd round and a cap dump (Ghost maybe?) as well
PHI
    Matt Dumba
    4.
    MIN
    1. Johansen, Ryan
    Détails additionnels:
    Don't love Johansen's cap hit and he's been disappointing in Nashville. Decent player, might revive his career on another team like Staal did with us a few years back.
    NSH
    1. Khovanov, Alexander
    2. Zuccarello, Mats
    3. Choix de 2e ronde en 2021 (MIN)
    Détails additionnels:
    Some sort of futures package and Zucc. Only way it works is if we could include Zucc. Because of that, this is probably unlikely.
    5.
    MIN
    1. Hertl, Tomas
    Détails additionnels:
    Hear me out: I don't think the Sharks will trade Hertl... but he's 27 and only has 2 years left on his deal and if they decide to rebuild then it makes sense to move him for a big package of picks/prospects. Wild have a ton of nice assets for the Sharks to choose from to help replenish their prospect pool. I could see a nice fit here for both sides if that is what the Sharks decide to do.
    SJS
      Boldy
      2020 first
      Probably one of Khovanov/Beckman
      Maybe more?
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      23 janv. 2021 à 12 h 25
      #1
      What in tarnation
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      My thoughts on these

      ARI - these two...dunno if they're really upgrades over Rossi and JEE. Schmaltz is one of the worst faceoff guys in the league, and Dvorak is more of a meh 2C, high end 3C.

      FLA - dunno about that either...expecting that if FLA moves Barkov, it'd have to be for a bigger haul than the latest Dubois trade. This ain't really it.

      PHI - can't see them dealing Patrick, but Frost+Ghost+2nd for Dumba is a very interesting deal in my opinion.

      NSH - can't see them taking Zuccarello. That contract is already bad, and it's only getting worse. Ryjo is still a lot younger.

      SJ - why would Hertl get the same package as Barkov? He ain't half of the guy, really. Think MIN would be better off signing the guy as FA...or Barkov for that matter.
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      23 janv. 2021 à 12 h 31
      #2
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      Quoting: justaBoss
      My thoughts on these

      ARI - these two...dunno if they're really upgrades over Rossi and JEE. Schmaltz is one of the worst faceoff guys in the league, and Dvorak is more of a meh 2C, high end 3C.

      FLA - dunno about that either...expecting that if FLA moves Barkov, it'd have to be for a bigger haul than the latest Dubois trade. This ain't really it.

      PHI - can't see them dealing Patrick, but Frost+Ghost+2nd for Dumba is a very interesting deal in my opinion.

      NSH - can't see them taking Zuccarello. That contract is already bad, and it's only getting worse. Ryjo is still a lot younger.

      SJ - why would Hertl get the same package as Barkov? He ain't half of the guy, really. Think MIN would be better off signing the guy as FA...or Barkov for that matter.


      Tried to be clear in my description but apparently I wasn't clear enough. These aren't final trade packages, just some pieces that would be on the table for these guys. Barkov would certainly cost more and Hertl wouldn't return all of that from us (I'm thinking something a little bit less than the Duchene package that Ottawa gave up).
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      23 janv. 2021 à 12 h 39
      #3
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      Pass on this. Hertl will likely stick in SJ so the deal would have to include someone with the potential to replace him, which Boldy doesnt have.

      Also disagree with the guy who thinks Hertl is significantly worse than Barkov.
      23 janv. 2021 à 12 h 45
      #4
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      I don't think MN goes big with getting a center this year. Maybe they try and pick up a rental one at the TDL but not spending much to get them.

      Colin White is an option I've been thinking about. He's been in the doghouse in OTT and might be able to be gotten at a reasonable price.
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      23 janv. 2021 à 12 h 47
      #5
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      Quoting: papishark
      Pass on this. Hertl will likely stick in SJ so the deal would have to include someone with the potential to replace him, which Boldy doesnt have.

      Also disagree with the guy who thinks Hertl is significantly worse than Barkov.


      Like I said, I don't think the Sharks will trade him. But if Wilson decides to tear it down then the Sharks could get a really nice package of picks/prospects for him.
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      23 janv. 2021 à 12 h 49
      #6
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      Quoting: wabit
      I don't think MN goes big with getting a center this year. Maybe they try and pick up a rental one at the TDL but not spending much to get them.

      Colin White is an option I've been thinking about. He's been in the doghouse in OTT and might be able to be gotten at a reasonable price.


      Do you really like him at 5 years x $4.75M though? That's a lot of money tied up for a guy that has scored more than 40 points once in his career.
      23 janv. 2021 à 12 h 59
      #7
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      Quoting: TanSor
      Do you really like him at 5 years x $4.75M though? That's a lot of money tied up for a guy that has scored more than 40 points once in his career.


      I am very much against going after White. It’s not coincidence he hasn’t produced since he left a line with Stone.

      As for Johansson, I think there could be something there if Zuccarello waived. Preds shed 2 years and 2 mil over the near term and Khovanov and a pick might be enough to do it if they want to go full rebuild.
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      23 janv. 2021 à 13 h 1
      #8
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      I like Hertl for this. Think it makes sense for the Sharks to trade him; this year at that. Maybe the term is a bit short for what Minny would like, but it could make sense to re-sign him just as long as they're careful of the contract. And regardless, I'm bullish on Minnesota and think these next two years with a 1C could be huge for them.
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      23 janv. 2021 à 14 h 3
      #9
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      Quoting: TanSor
      Do you really like him at 5 years x $4.75M though? That's a lot of money tied up for a guy that has scored more than 40 points once in his career.


      He's an upgrade to Rask for just a little more money, a RHS, soon to be 24 yo, and can play with talented wings. If you have to stick him on a line with a solid 2-way wing+Kaprizov/Fiala.

      Right now MN has JEE as a center going into next year.
      -Rask is Rask. He could be a buyout this offseason.
      -Strum has looked good in a small sample as a 4th line wing. He could also be SEA fodder.
      -No clue how good/bad Rossi will be.
      -Khovanov isn't anything close to a guarantee next year if at all.
      -Off the top of my head; Danualt, Staal, Stepan, and Gezlaf are the notable possible UFAs centers for the offseason. No clue if any of them would even sign in MN and the pay they'll want.

      I'd make a gamble on White before I would RyJo (and his huge contract). Heck Dvorak doesn't even have 1 40p season and I'm looking at him too.

      Trading a prime piece (Boldy, Rossi, 1st's) for a rental, or a rental+1 is a mistake right now for me. MN will be able to run 3 quality lines about evenly so the 1C-2C-3C doesn't mean much to me. The might have different roles, but they'll get close to the same ToI 5v5 and have quality scoring output on all the lines. They just need the centers to be able to do that. JEE is one, now find 2 more somewhere. I think White could be one of those other 2.
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      23 janv. 2021 à 14 h 14
      #10
      Banni
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      You're not even close for Aleksander Barkov, And name me one reason why he would waive his NMC for Minnesota? They're nowhere near as close to a cup run then Florida.
      23 janv. 2021 à 14 h 28
      #11
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      Quoting: DiehardRedWingsFan58
      You're not even close for Aleksander Barkov, And name me one reason why he would waive his NMC for Minnesota? They're nowhere near as close to a cup run then Florida.


      If you read my description you'd realize these aren't final proposals. I'm well aware this isn't enough for him
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      23 janv. 2021 à 15 h 21
      #12
      14m in dead cap
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      Quoting: DiehardRedWingsFan58
      You're not even close for Aleksander Barkov, And name me one reason why he would waive his NMC for Minnesota? They're nowhere near as close to a cup run then Florida.


      Considering you were the guy saying Markstrom was a lock to sign in Detroit, you're the last person to say who would or wouldn't waive to play somewhere.
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      23 janv. 2021 à 15 h 24
      #13
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      Quoting: DiehardRedWingsFan58
      You're not even close for Aleksander Barkov, And name me one reason why he would waive his NMC for Minnesota? They're nowhere near as close to a cup run then Florida.


      Disagree here. If this is an off-season move, the return should look something like the Pacioretty trade. Top prospect and a 1st/2nd. The real problem with Barkov is getting him signed and making the rest of the cap work.
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      23 janv. 2021 à 15 h 28
      #14
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      I wonder how interested Fletcher would be in Dumba. He drafted him and he's largely turned out to be the player we all thought he'd be when he was drafted. The biggest challenge would be cap, since Philly doesn't have a ton of space or an obvious expiring contract they could send the other way to make the cap work like the Pens did with Galch. Ghost would just cause cap problems down the road I think, so they'd need to figure out another way to make the money work or maybe just circle back this summer.
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      23 janv. 2021 à 15 h 32
      #15
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      Quoting: wabit
      He's an upgrade to Rask for just a little more money, a RHS, soon to be 24 yo, and can play with talented wings. If you have to stick him on a line with a solid 2-way wing+Kaprizov/Fiala.

      Right now MN has JEE as a center going into next year.
      -Rask is Rask. He could be a buyout this offseason.
      -Strum has looked good in a small sample as a 4th line wing. He could also be SEA fodder.
      -No clue how good/bad Rossi will be.
      -Khovanov isn't anything close to a guarantee next year if at all.
      -Off the top of my head; Danualt, Staal, Stepan, and Gezlaf are the notable possible UFAs centers for the offseason. No clue if any of them would even sign in MN and the pay they'll want.

      I'd make a gamble on White before I would RyJo (and his huge contract). Heck Dvorak doesn't even have 1 40p season and I'm looking at him too.

      Trading a prime piece (Boldy, Rossi, 1st's) for a rental, or a rental+1 is a mistake right now for me. MN will be able to run 3 quality lines about evenly so the 1C-2C-3C doesn't mean much to me. The might have different roles, but they'll get close to the same ToI 5v5 and have quality scoring output on all the lines. They just need the centers to be able to do that. JEE is one, now find 2 more somewhere. I think White could be one of those other 2.


      If this were a matter of trading Rask + for White on similar terms then yes it makes sense, but you add in the extra 2 years of that cap hit for a guy that can’t drive a line and our cap situation looks worse than it does now.

      And I get you don’t put stock into prospects but it’s an absolute fools errand to say we don’t know if Rossi will be good or bad. We have to work under the assumption that he can play top 6 next year, if he isn’t then getting 1 top 6 center doesn’t really move the needle. As for Khovanov, he’ll probably get a look at the end of 21-22 or in 22-23. Timelines are more important than calling hits or misses before they’re calle cup. Prospects matter because it’s how you build perennially even if they aren’t set in stone. Sure things cost more than we can spend, uncertainty and educated risk taking are how you build a roster.
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      23 janv. 2021 à 15 h 35
      #16
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      Quoting: JayTea
      I wonder how interested Fletcher would be in Dumba. He drafted him and he's largely turned out to be the player we all thought he'd be when he was drafted. The biggest challenge would be cap, since Philly doesn't have a ton of space or an obvious expiring contract they could send the other way to make the cap work like the Pens did with Galch. Ghost would just cause cap problems down the road I think, so they'd need to figure out another way to make the money work or maybe just circle back this summer.


      I think the fit is there but I think the timing is gone. Frost plus for Dumba would have been great but Fletch couldn’t take that risk with Nolan’s situation. I also think Dumba is gonna be here at least another year or 2, contrary to my certainty this fall, he looks good and he seems to be a good leader with the younger guys.
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      23 janv. 2021 à 16 h 13
      #17
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      Quoting: jnowariak
      If this were a matter of trading Rask + for White on similar terms then yes it makes sense, but you add in the extra 2 years of that cap hit for a guy that can’t drive a line and our cap situation looks worse than it does now.

      And I get you don’t put stock into prospects but it’s an absolute fools errand to say we don’t know if Rossi will be good or bad. We have to work under the assumption that he can play top 6 next year, if he isn’t then getting 1 top 6 center doesn’t really move the needle. As for Khovanov, he’ll probably get a look at the end of 21-22 or in 22-23. Timelines are more important than calling hits or misses before they’re calle cup. Prospects matter because it’s how you build perennially even if they aren’t set in stone. Sure things cost more than we can spend, uncertainty and educated risk taking are how you build a roster.


      White had a bad year on a bad team, his most common linemate was Ennis. It's not like he was the boat anchor of a stacked line.

      Assuming anyone outside of a McDavid, Eichel, Matthews quality prospect is a top-6 center right out of the gate is a recipe for disaster. Rossi is a 19yo with 0 high level pro games under his belt. You talk about timelines for prospects yet want to rush Rossi into the lineup without having done anything. Rossi might be a 1C right out of the gate, or he might need to be in the AHL to learn how to play the pro game against grown men. This holds true for any prospect, not just ones I'm not high on.

      I don't have any issues paying a middle-6 center $4m-$5m/yr. It's what White it is a fair market deal. He's 24 yo with term and only 150 NHL games played. It's not like we're talking about giving an oft injured, 31 yo, 35p/yr d-man a $7.5m x 7 deal here.
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      23 janv. 2021 à 16 h 23
      #18
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      Quoting: wabit
      Assuming anyone outside of a McDavid, Eichel, Matthews quality prospect is a top-6 center right out of the gate is a recipe for disaster. Rossi is a 19yo with 0 high level pro games under his belt. You talk about timelines for prospects yet want to rush Rossi into the lineup without having done anything. Rossi might be a 1C right out of the gate, or he might need to be in the AHL to learn how to play the pro game against grown men. This holds true for any prospect, not just ones I'm not high on.


      This is the biggest reason I don't want Rossi to be in the NHL right now. Give him a few games so he can get an understanding of what he needs to be able to do and then send him to Iowa to develop. He could be a stud or he could be a bust, but being patient and letting him gain some confidence playing in the AHL is probably the better way to help him become the player they drafted him to be.
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      23 janv. 2021 à 16 h 45
      #19
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      Quoting: JayTea
      This is the biggest reason I don't want Rossi to be in the NHL right now. Give him a few games so he can get an understanding of what he needs to be able to do and then send him to Iowa to develop. He could be a stud or he could be a bust, but being patient and letting him gain some confidence playing in the AHL is probably the better way to help him become the player they drafted him to be.


      I think someone like Greenway is an exception to this. He needed to learn how to use his size and he wasn't going to get that in the AHL. But that is a special case for a guy coming from college success, got a taste of playing against men in the Olympics and held his own, and is friggin huge.
      23 janv. 2021 à 17 h 55
      #20
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      Quoting: JayTea
      This is the biggest reason I don't want Rossi to be in the NHL right now. Give him a few games so he can get an understanding of what he needs to be able to do and then send him to Iowa to develop. He could be a stud or he could be a bust, but being patient and letting him gain some confidence playing in the AHL is probably the better way to help him become the player they drafted him to be.


      I think Rossi should be an NHLer next season, it would have been foolish to burn a year of his deal this year. He’s got all of the indications that he’s mature enough to grow through any struggles he has. Play him with Fiala or KK right away and let him sink or swim, a 35-40 pt season would be a great success for him next year. I’m not expecting him to be an all star but he’s ready to go so long as we commit to him. I would point to Cody Glass in Vegas as an analogous player, both are two way play makers with solid, but not excellent, skating.
      23 janv. 2021 à 18 h 25
      #21
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      Quoting: jnowariak
      I think Rossi should be an NHLer next season, it would have been foolish to burn a year of his deal this year. He’s got all of the indications that he’s mature enough to grow through any struggles he has. Play him with Fiala or KK right away and let him sink or swim, a 35-40 pt season would be a great success for him next year. I’m not expecting him to be an all star but he’s ready to go so long as we commit to him. I would point to Cody Glass in Vegas as an analogous player, both are two way play makers with solid, but not excellent, skating.


      Glass is 6'2", 190 lbs, playing the 3C, spot with 13 mins a game. He also had around 30 (mostly Playoff) AHL games before he ever set foot in the NHL.
      23 janv. 2021 à 18 h 34
      #22
      In Zito We Trust
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      Quoting: papishark
      Pass on this. Hertl will likely stick in SJ so the deal would have to include someone with the potential to replace him, which Boldy doesnt have.

      Also disagree with the guy who thinks Hertl is significantly worse than Barkov.


      Of course YOU would disagree...
      23 janv. 2021 à 18 h 56
      #23
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      Quoting: VijayPatel11
      Of course YOU would disagree...


      Dont get me wrong Barkov is the guy I would take first, but Hertl is no slouch lol, its always eastern fans who never see Hertl that think hes some second liner
      23 janv. 2021 à 19 h 9
      #24
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      Quoting: papishark
      Dont get me wrong Barkov is the guy I would take first, but Hertl is no slouch lol, its always eastern fans who never see Hertl that think hes some second liner


      yo I tagged you in a post earlier today. I seriously think you'd be a great addition to the game if you're interested.
      23 janv. 2021 à 19 h 14
      #25
      Démarrer sujet
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      Quoting: papishark
      Dont get me wrong Barkov is the guy I would take first, but Hertl is no slouch lol, its always eastern fans who never see Hertl that think hes some second liner


      He's definitely a first line player and I really, really like him but personally I'd take Barkov over him 10 times out of 10.
      papishark a aimé ceci.
       
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