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Market on Barkov

Créé par: Wildwinswhen
Équipe: 2020-21 Wild du Minnesota
Date de création initiale: 21 janv. 2021
Publié: 21 janv. 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
There could be more additions to this trade (Khovanov, Pit 1st Rd pick, 3rd Rd pick, future picks, etc.), but what do you think?

Still not sure that I would do this, but I wanted to understand the price for Barkov.
Transactions
FLA
  1. Dumba, Matt
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2021 (MIN)
Détails additionnels:
Boldy or Rossi
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2021
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $80 249 424 $0 $925 000 $1 250 576 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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7 538 462 $7 538 462 $
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UFA - 5
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5 900 000 $5 900 000 $
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UFA - 2
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3 000 000 $3 000 000 $
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2 100 000 $2 100 000 $
AG, AD
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1 487 500 $1 487 500 $
C
UFA - 1
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925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance925 000 $$925K)
AG
UFA - 1
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4 500 000 $4 500 000 $
AG, AD
M-NTC
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4 100 000 $4 100 000 $
C, AG
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2 050 000 $2 050 000 $
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1 900 000 $1 900 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
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2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
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2 875 000 $2 875 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
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7 538 462 $7 538 462 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 5
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7 575 000 $7 575 000 $
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NMC
UFA - 7
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4 166 667 $4 166 667 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 1
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3 450 000 $3 450 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
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3 666 667 $3 666 667 $
G
UFA - 3
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700 000 $700 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
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725 000 $725 000 $
G
UFA - 2
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2 750 000 $2 750 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 3
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
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725 000 $725 000 $
C
UFA - 2
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6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
AD, AG
NMC
UFA - 4
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700 000 $700 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
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785 000 $785 000 $
G
UFA - 2
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925 000 $925 000 $
C
RFA - 5
Équipe de réserve
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700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
AG, C
UFA - 1
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700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
DD
UFA - 1
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700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
DG/DD
UFA - 1
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700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
C
UFA - 1
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700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
G
UFA - 1
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700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
DD
UFA - 1

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21 janv. 2021 à 13 h 48
#1
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Have to add way more. Top 5 center in my opinion.
21 janv. 2021 à 13 h 50
#2
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Quoting: Nhl_oilers
Have to add way more. Top 5 center in my opinion.


Ok, like what? We have all the things I listed in the Team Explanation as additional trade bait.
21 janv. 2021 à 13 h 58
#3
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Quoting: Wildwinswhen
Ok, like what? We have all the things I listed in description as additional trade bait.



Okay.. you are not gonna like this at all. It’s gonna clean out your prospect pool, because most top 5 centres would. Starts with Rossi, and Boldy without a doubt. If they trade him they will probably go in a rebuild, so add Callen Addison to that as well. It will be a few firsts.... let’s say 2. Kaprizov would be a good add. This may not be enough honestly, as your prospect pool isn’t good enough to do a trade for a player like him. So to sum it up it would be; Rossi, Boldy, Addison, Kaprizov, and 2 first round picks. But again you guys don’t have a deep prospect pool, and you don’t have a very good top player to add. Minnesota would be able to get him, but they would have to add a lot. Maybe more than what I said.
21 janv. 2021 à 14 h 13
#4
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The value of Barkov really depends on whether he would sign an extension or whether he would go to FA.

If he doesn't resign, and any given team only gets 2 years of him:
- blue chip center prospect
- cost controlled top 4 defenseman
- 1st

If he would sign an extension with a team, then his value obviously increases:
- blue chip center prospect
- cost controlled top 4 defenseman
- NHL top 6 forward
- 1st
- 2nd
- dark horse prospect (someone who could pan out into a solid player or one that could bust)
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21 janv. 2021 à 14 h 29
#5
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Quoting: Skyraider112
The value of Barkov really depends on whether he would sign an extension or whether he would go to FA.

If he doesn't resign, and any given team only gets 2 years of him:
- blue chip center prospect
- cost controlled top 4 defenseman
- 1st

If he would sign an extension with a team, then his value obviously increases:
- blue chip center prospect
- cost controlled top 4 defenseman
- NHL top 6 forward
- 1st
- 2nd
- dark horse prospect (someone who could pan out into a solid player or one that could bust)


Problem is an extension can't be negotiated until next offseason since he still has 2 years on his deal. But this looks relatively in line with what he would cost
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21 janv. 2021 à 14 h 33
#6
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The closest comparable to Barkov that's been traded recently was Duchene when the Avs traded him. They received:

- Conditional 1st round pick
- 2nd round pick
- 3rd round pick
- Andrew Hammond (cap dump)
- Samuel Girard (2nd round pick)
- Vladislav Kamenev (2nd round pick)
- Shane Bowers (1st round pick taken 28th overall)

The 1st round pick ended up being 4th overall, but let's not play revisionist historian here. Any sane person would have projected that pick to be in the 17-20 overall range since the Sens just came off of a ECF appearance the year prior. What would this look like if it was Minnesota now?

- 2021 1st round pick that could be deferred to 2022 if Minnesota wants
- 2021 2nd round pick
- 2022 3rd round pick
- Nick Bjugstad (cap dump)
- Defense prospect (Adisson, O'Rourke, or Menell)
- Center prospect (Khovanov or Khusnutidinov)
- Winger prospects (Beckman probably)

All this nonsense about multiple 1sts, Boldy, and Rossi just doesn't reflect reality.
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21 janv. 2021 à 14 h 35
#7
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Quoting: JayTea
The closest comparable to Barkov that's been traded recently was Duchene when the Avs traded him. They received:

- Conditional 1st round pick
- 2nd round pick
- 3rd round pick
- Andrew Hammond (cap dump)
- Samuel Girard (2nd round pick)
- Vladislav Kamenev (2nd round pick)
- Shane Bowers (1st round pick taken 28th overall)

The 1st round pick ended up being 4th overall, but let's not play revisionist historian here. Any sane person would have projected that pick to be in the 17-20 overall range since the Sens just came off of a ECF appearance the year prior. What would this look like if it was Minnesota now?

- 2021 1st round pick that could be deferred to 2022 if Minnesota wants
- 2021 2nd round pick
- 2022 3rd round pick
- Nick Bjugstad (cap dump)
- Defense prospect (Adisson, O'Rourke, or Menell)
- Center prospect (Khovanov or Khusnutidinov)
- Winger prospects (Beckman probably)

All this nonsense about multiple 1sts, Boldy, and Rossi just doesn't reflect reality.


But Barkov > Duchene, he much better
21 janv. 2021 à 14 h 36
#8
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Quoting: SalamiCheese
But Barkov > Duchene, he much better


The difference between them isn't multiple 1st and 2 blue chip prospects.
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21 janv. 2021 à 14 h 41
#9
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Quoting: Skyraider112
The value of Barkov really depends on whether he would sign an extension or whether he would go to FA.

If he doesn't resign, and any given team only gets 2 years of him:
- blue chip center prospect
- cost controlled top 4 defenseman
- 1st

If he would sign an extension with a team, then his value obviously increases:
- blue chip center prospect
- cost controlled top 4 defenseman
- NHL top 6 forward
- 1st
- 2nd
- dark horse prospect (someone who could pan out into a solid player or one that could bust)


That's just it. His value is that of a rental+1 (plus he has a full NTC this year). Him signing an extension shouldn't factor into the trade.

MN would have been able to make a much better offer if Guerin didn't ship out Kunin and Donato.
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21 janv. 2021 à 14 h 42
#10
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Modifié 21 janv. 2021 à 15 h 59
Quoting: JayTea
The difference between them isn't multiple 1st and 2 blue chip prospects.


That is the problem. As a Buffalo fan, it’s clear to me that the sentence will start with Cozens + 1st + and something else. Barkov is an elite 1C, which, moreover, is still well playing in defense, for this you will have to give at least one better prospect. Another question is how Barkov arrives, with an extension or not, then the price will be slightly different.
21 janv. 2021 à 14 h 48
#11
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Quoting: SalamiCheese
That is the problem. As a Buffalo fan, it’s clear to me that the sentence will start with Cozens + 1st + and nothing else. Barkov is an elite 1C, which, moreover, is still well playing in defense, for this you will have to give at least one better prospect. Another question is how Barkov arrives, with an extension or not, then the price will be slightly different.


And that's a different conversation. I personally think the most Minnesota would give up is Rossi or Boldy and the later of their 2021 1sts plus a cap dump to make the cap work. History doesn't show any team giving up their entire prospect pool for a player they can't even extend yet. People seem to conveniently forget Barkov cannot be extended until after this season.
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21 janv. 2021 à 14 h 50
#12
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Quoting: SalamiCheese
But Barkov > Duchene, he much better


I think that Dumba instead of Bjugstad as the cap moving would be enough to offset the player difference. Not that FLA needs Dumba unless they are moving Ekblad or Stralman in a different trade.

The teams really don't line up well as trade partners. The value part of it MN can make work, it's just it doesn't really meet and of FLA's needs unless they go into another rebuild mode.
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21 janv. 2021 à 15 h 12
#13
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Quoting: Nhl_oilers
Okay.. you are not gonna like this at all. It’s gonna clean out your prospect pool, because most top 5 centres would. Starts with Rossi, and Boldy without a doubt. If they trade him they will probably go in a rebuild, so add Callen Addison to that as well. It will be a few firsts.... let’s say 2. Kaprizov would be a good add. This may not be enough honestly, as your prospect pool isn’t good enough to do a trade for a player like him. So to sum it up it would be; Rossi, Boldy, Addison, Kaprizov, and 2 first round picks. But again you guys don’t have a deep prospect pool, and you don’t have a very good top player to add. Minnesota would be able to get him, but they would have to add a lot. Maybe more than what I said.


Yeah, wow. I agree with you that there's no way we would trade all of that. If that's the price, we're definitely waiting for the kids to step into their roles.
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21 janv. 2021 à 15 h 20
#14
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Quoting: JayTea
The closest comparable to Barkov that's been traded recently was Duchene when the Avs traded him. They received:

- Conditional 1st round pick
- 2nd round pick
- 3rd round pick
- Andrew Hammond (cap dump)
- Samuel Girard (2nd round pick)
- Vladislav Kamenev (2nd round pick)
- Shane Bowers (1st round pick taken 28th overall)

The 1st round pick ended up being 4th overall, but let's not play revisionist historian here. Any sane person would have projected that pick to be in the 17-20 overall range since the Sens just came off of a ECF appearance the year prior. What would this look like if it was Minnesota now?

- 2021 1st round pick that could be deferred to 2022 if Minnesota wants
- 2021 2nd round pick
- 2022 3rd round pick
- Nick Bjugstad (cap dump)
- Defense prospect (Adisson, O'Rourke, or Menell)
- Center prospect (Khovanov or Khusnutidinov)
- Winger prospects (Beckman probably)

All this nonsense about multiple 1sts, Boldy, and Rossi just doesn't reflect reality.


If that's the price, then I would do that trade. It would mean losing Adisson, Khovanov, and a number of future picks, but Kaprizov - Barkov - Fiala on the power play would be worth it.
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21 janv. 2021 à 15 h 58
#15
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Quoting: JayTea
And that's a different conversation. I personally think the most Minnesota would give up is Rossi or Boldy and the later of their 2021 1sts plus a cap dump to make the cap work. History doesn't show any team giving up their entire prospect pool for a player they can't even extend yet. People seem to conveniently forget Barkov cannot be extended until after this season.


Well yes, it will be Rossi + 1st one as the basis of the deal. I also talked about it. You won't get Barkov for Addison or Khovanov, you have to give up a better prospect. Can't you come to an agreement with Barkov in words?
21 janv. 2021 à 16 h 10
#16
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Quoting: SalamiCheese
Well yes, it will be Rossi + 1st one as the basis of the deal. I also talked about it. You won't get Barkov for Addison or Khovanov, you have to give up a better prospect. Can't you come to an agreement with Barkov in words?


You're oversimplifying what I said. I didn't say Addison and Khovanov, I said both of them (or comparable prospects) plus 3 picks and another prospect. Basically what the Avs received for 1 1/2 years of Duchene. I get that Barkov is better, but they're comparable enough in what they offer a team acquiring them that a reasonable return would look similar enough. Obviously Florida would ask for Rossi or Boldy to start but teams pretty much never get what they started asking for unless the GM trading for their player is Rutherford.

I mean you certainly could have a handshake agreement but nothing binds Barkov to testing the free agent market. That's the risk involved and why Florida wouldn't get multiple 1sts + Boldy + Rossi + Addison as someone above was dreaming.
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21 janv. 2021 à 16 h 39
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Quoting: SalamiCheese
Well yes, it will be Rossi + 1st one as the basis of the deal. I also talked about it. You won't get Barkov for Addison or Khovanov, you have to give up a better prospect. Can't you come to an agreement with Barkov in words?


It would all be non-binding words until the start of the new league year. He could hate the team, or the coach, the word hotdish, the state of MN, the contract offered, etc and decide to leave as a UFA.

Duchene, Muzzin, and Panarin are recent big name rental+1's trades. That is the value range for a Barkov return. FLA would get a very nice return for Barkov, but not a king's ransom.

Barkov doesn't carry the value of a PLD (RFA) as far as team control so that doesn't help his value. He also doesn't have the term of Eichel to offset the loss of a huge return to the team that is acquiring him.
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21 janv. 2021 à 16 h 45
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Quoting: wabit
It would all be non-binding words until the start of the new league year. He could hate the team, or the coach, the word hotdish, the state of MN, the contract offered, etc and decide to leave as a UFA.

Duchene, Muzzin, and Panarin are recent big name rental+1's trades. That is the value range for a Barkov return. FLA would get a very nice return for Barkov, but not a king's ransom.

Barkov doesn't carry the value of a PLD (RFA) as far as team control so that doesn't help his value. He also doesn't have the term of Eichel to offset the loss of a huge return to the team that is acquiring him.


I completely forgot about Panarin. I'm sure Blackhawk fans would like to as well. lol
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21 janv. 2021 à 18 h 11
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Quoting: JayTea
You're oversimplifying what I said. I didn't say Addison and Khovanov, I said both of them (or comparable prospects) plus 3 picks and another prospect. Basically what the Avs received for 1 1/2 years of Duchene. I get that Barkov is better, but they're comparable enough in what they offer a team acquiring them that a reasonable return would look similar enough. Obviously Florida would ask for Rossi or Boldy to start but teams pretty much never get what they started asking for unless the GM trading for their player is Rutherford.

I mean you certainly could have a handshake agreement but nothing binds Barkov to testing the free agent market. That's the risk involved and why Florida wouldn't get multiple 1sts + Boldy + Rossi + Addison as someone above was dreaming.


Do you see a lot of deals when a center like Barkov is traded? They just don't exist. If you do not give them Rossi and the first round as a basis, then someone else will give them a comparable prospect. I am convinced of this.

Well, Florida won't get that package and Minnesota probably shouldn't trade all their best prospects, but Rossi probably would have had to give up.
21 janv. 2021 à 18 h 13
#20
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Quoting: wabit
It would all be non-binding words until the start of the new league year. He could hate the team, or the coach, the word hotdish, the state of MN, the contract offered, etc and decide to leave as a UFA.

Duchene, Muzzin, and Panarin are recent big name rental+1's trades. That is the value range for a Barkov return. FLA would get a very nice return for Barkov, but not a king's ransom.

Barkov doesn't carry the value of a PLD (RFA) as far as team control so that doesn't help his value. He also doesn't have the term of Eichel to offset the loss of a huge return to the team that is acquiring him.


I don’t understand what the dispute is about? I did not say that Florida would receive a super package for Barkov, but I probably would have had to give one very valuable prospect and the first round as a basis, and then there it would be just to return the salary to Florida.
21 janv. 2021 à 18 h 17
#21
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Quoting: SalamiCheese
Do you see a lot of deals when a center like Barkov is traded? They just don't exist. If you do not give them Rossi and the first round as a basis, then someone else will give them a comparable prospect. I am convinced of this.

Well, Florida won't get that package and Minnesota probably shouldn't trade all their best prospects, but Rossi probably would have had to give up.


I think we're arguing the same thing at this point. Florida would want Rossi or Boldy and something else (a 1st?) with a roster player to make the cap work now for Minnesota, but under no circumstances is any team giving them the insane package someone above said. You're right that players like Barkov rarely hit the market, but even more rare is a team giving up multiple 1st round picks along with multiple prospects taken in the 1st 12 picks in the 2 previous drafts because it just doesn't happen. Ever. Absolutely no way it happens.
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21 janv. 2021 à 18 h 21
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Quoting: JayTea
I think we're arguing the same thing at this point. Florida would want Rossi or Boldy and something else (a 1st?) with a roster player to make the cap work now for Minnesota, but under no circumstances is any team giving them the insane package someone above said. You're right that players like Barkov rarely hit the market, but even more rare is a team giving up multiple 1st round picks along with multiple prospects taken in the 1st 12 picks in the 2 previous drafts because it just doesn't happen. Ever. Absolutely no way it happens.


Well, so I said initially that you will probably have to give up Rossi or Boldy + 1st + salary. And still somehow at least find out Barkov's opinion about his plans in a year. In no case should Minnesota give up all its valuable prospects and picks for 1.5-1 years of Barkov.
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21 janv. 2021 à 18 h 30
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Quoting: SalamiCheese
Do you see a lot of deals when a center like Barkov is traded? They just don't exist. If you do not give them Rossi and the first round as a basis, then someone else will give them a comparable prospect. I am convinced of this.

Well, Florida won't get that package and Minnesota probably shouldn't trade all their best prospects, but Rossi probably would have had to give up.


I don't mind Rossi being shipped out as part for Barkov deal, but I'm lower on Rossi than most everyone else. It's the Rossi + Boldy + 1st+ that isn't worth it.

MN (or most any team) would just wait out year+ until he's a UFA and get him for just money.

COL is the probably only team that could/should make an all-in type of trade to get him and not worry about what happens with him as a UFA. MacKinnon, Barkov, and Kadri would be a brutal center lineup to have to play against for the next 2 years.
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21 janv. 2021 à 18 h 40
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Modifié 21 janv. 2021 à 18 h 47
Quoting: wabit
I don't mind Rossi being shipped out as part for Barkov deal, but I'm lower on Rossi than most everyone else. It's the Rossi + Boldy + 1st+ that isn't worth it.

MN (or most any team) would just wait out year+ until he's a UFA and get him for just money.

COL is the probably only team that could/should make an all-in type of trade to get him and not worry about what happens with him as a UFA. MacKinnon, Barkov, and Kadri would be a brutal center lineup to have to play against for the next 2 years.


I didn’t say that Wilde should be given to Rossi + Boldy + 1st + something else for perhaps 1.5-1 years of Barkov, that would be too rash on Guerin's part. I just specified that Minnesota will not get Barkov for Addison + Khovanov + 1st, other teams will simply do better this offer. Perhaps Barkov is not the best target for some teams because of the price and possible rent . As a Buffalo fan, I would definitely not want us to give Cozens + Quinn + 1st in 1.5-1 years of Barkov.

Yep, AVS could do it because they are contender and they have the resources to do it, probably Vegas could too.
22 janv. 2021 à 8 h 10
#25
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Quoting: Nhl_oilers
Okay.. you are not gonna like this at all. It’s gonna clean out your prospect pool, because most top 5 centres would. Starts with Rossi, and Boldy without a doubt. If they trade him they will probably go in a rebuild, so add Callen Addison to that as well. It will be a few firsts.... let’s say 2. Kaprizov would be a good add. This may not be enough honestly, as your prospect pool isn’t good enough to do a trade for a player like him. So to sum it up it would be; Rossi, Boldy, Addison, Kaprizov, and 2 first round picks. But again you guys don’t have a deep prospect pool, and you don’t have a very good top player to add. Minnesota would be able to get him, but they would have to add a lot. Maybe more than what I said.


That's way too much. Barkov is good and all, but three blue-chip prospects (+one of them already being a great NHL-er), two firsts and a good D-prospect is WAYYY too much for anyone not named Connor McDavid. Anything over Boldy, two firsts, Addison would be an overpay.
Wildwinswhen a aimé ceci.
 
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