It is possible that my opinion was clouded because he certainly didn't start very well. Muzz had an off game too and Bogo was BAD. Good news is I think that Rielly-Brodie is the first pair we've been looking for finally.

Look you got 3 decent guys in Rielly, Muzz and Brodie. After that it's down hill.
Holl is not that good. I know TOR fans like him, He's a 7th guy on a lot of teams 6th guy on others.
Point being, 3 defenseman does not make a team. Even when you have a solid top 4, the bottom 2 can sink you. They got to be at least competent. But when you got guys like Bogosian outplaying people for the 6th spot you are in trouble.

Its nice that you feel this way but the underlying numbers(and actual numbers with Holl's tidy +1 on the night at even strength) disagree with you and they did so again tonight. You should check your bias. At least you're correct about Bogosian though.

the +/- is always looked at as the worst stat in hockey. People like to cherry pick it when it somehow means something for them. But it doesn't really mean much because the number is so much on the rest of the team.

If that's the stat you are gonna go with you have an uphill climb.
This is not some one person opinion on Holl. It's been one clearly stated by a lot of people on these boards.

Ok man holl was not the best defenseman tonight. He made some errors and turned the puck over a bit too. Morgan Reilly saved atleast 2 goals and scored the ot winner as well. Wasn’t the worst, that belongs to gritty zach bogosion but not the best.

You realize I talked about the underlying numbers first right? We can go with xGF% and Corsi's(50.66% and 52%, positive numbers relative to teammates despite twice as many defensive zone starts), scoring chances (SCF% is 59%), etc. All the underlying numbers say Holl had a great game tonight and his underlying numbers from last season will back those up. As you suggested to someone earlier in this thread, you need to check your bias.

there is no bias. This is an AHL level guy elevated due to poor play by others around him. The guy starting below him is Bogosian, we aren't talking about hurdles here. He spent till he was 27 in the AHL for a reason. You just don't seem to get that. Like I said, he's got a lot of support to help those under lying numbers. That doesn't mean he's good. Hell there are years where Ruhwedel had good underlying numbers as well. No one is mistaking him for a top 4 defense. Matter of fact his numbers were very comparable to Holl's.
So understand the argument. When you get 40+ minutes of ice time a night from 2 stacked lines, it will carry the numbers of guys. It doesn't mean they are good.

So your argument is 'Sure everything thats objective tells me I'm wrong but hes not a kid so it can't be right.' and you want me to believe for some mysterious reason it's not a biased take?

Yeah hopefully. I just haven’t been impressed with Marner’s play since he signed that contract. Looks slow and tentative.