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Montreal Canadiens Season Discussion Thread

29 avr. 2021 à 10 h 15
#576
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Quoting: SevenLeg
My bad I fell asleep and it was an interesting discussion.

Shea Weber has had a higher WAR than Subban since 18-19 (Subban's last year in Nashville). He's also considerably worse this season, he just does not get any backlash from the media because we never play against him. We can blame New Jersey's poor defense, sure, but when you're the one with the most icetime, you're the cornerstone of the defense and the main responsible for its lack of success. It does not mean he's washed, but he's in the weird gray area with Morrissey, Ristolainen, Jones in a way that they contribute to the team's sinking more than anyone else because of how they are used. Is Weber's contract going to bite us at some point? Potentially, but a 35-year-old guy who went through a lot and has crumbling legs is LTIR-bound. As we speak, he has a higher impact on his team than Subban has on his.

As for the trade, we needed a defenseman more than a winger if you ask me. Shea Weber was a safer bet to bring us to contention than Taylor Hall. Andrei Markov was getting old and Jeff Petry was not as good as he is right now.

It's not his fault that the pillars were not strong enough. He inherited of a decent team that was still far away from contention. The Canadiens never had two consecutive top 10 picks since 1980-81 (Wickenheiser, Hunter). That's 7 General Managers : Bergevin, Gauthier, Gainey, A. Savard, Houle, S. Savard, Grundman) Coincidentally, the Molson family has been the main owners since 1978. That said, I refuse to believe that they went through 6 General Managers and none of them sat and thought of a rebuild. The Molsons are among the most successful businessmen in Canada's history and hockey is a business. I bet they make as much money with a round 1 loss as the Stars made in their run to the finals last year.

Like you said, Bergevin is good at finding low-cost gems (Danault/Romanov, Kulak, Armia, etc.) and that's what makes him a good GM. Imagine what he could have done if we had drafted our own duo of stars that seem to be a requisite in order to win it all (Crosby/Malkin, Kopitar/Doughty, Backstrom/Ovechkin, Tarasenko/Pietrangelo, Vasilevskiy/Hedman, Kane/Toews) and we had combined it with Begevin's ability to pinpoint trade steals. The most valuable assets in hockey are 1st round picks and players who are subsequently drafted with the said picks. When you draft only twice in the top 10 in your 9-year tenure and you're somewhat close to the playoffs is a mastermind.


Holy sweet mother of blinded light. I think your looking at this from slightly too rosey glasses. I don't necessarily agree with the WAR rating but Im not opposed to it either. I believe in circumstance 100% though and I would stake my life that if that trade never happened and Subban stayed with the Habs till now, his stats would have been way better had he not gone to NJ and if Weber was dealt to NJ instead, that WAR rating he would have would be tilting your approval in him downwards. Other than Hall that one year, NJ is where players go to die. That's why they drafted 1st OV twice in the past 4 years.....

As for the man in charge, Bergevin is the architect. Everything flows through him. He inherited a Norris calibre dman, a superstar MVP goalie, a perrenial 30 goal scoring winger and a top 3 selection in the entry draft and he didn't start making critical changes to the roster till well into his tenure once the team stopped winning..... This team stopped being competitive once he started truly adding his touch to the team. Weber, Drouin, Shaw, Eller, etc.

Drafting??! Im sorry but "good" GM's don't need to draft top 10 to be good. Even then, every time he drafted in the top 10, he did miss the mark also. Galchenyuk was a failure, Sergachev was traded for Drouin so its like we drafted Drouin...... Kotkaniemi is just ok and frankly Im not sure the skill is there to be a top end player. He may just end up being a decent #2 at best. Which is nice but its hard to watch as the very "Bergevin" type player in Ottawa is excelling on a worse team and probably would have been the smart choice had MB just went out and finally got that #1 center he said no team trades, despite plenty of teams trading for them.....

Regarding that EDM trade, you are missing the point. It was not just Hall, it was the cap space and the draft pick. Cap space to go out and get a Subban replacement and a draft pick to replace Subbans stardom on the team. If MB simply stuck to his motto of hard nose gritty hard working players with skill like he always preaches, the clear cut choice was either Dubois or Matthew Tkachuk in that draft. At worst he still took Sergachev and simply didn't trade him away this time. Sergachev can play RHD so worst comes to worst, he could have been that Subban replacement eventually.

"When you draft only twice in the top 10 in your 9-year tenure and you're somewhat close to the playoffs is a mastermind." - Raise your standards my man. Plenty of GM's have done this, this isn't a spectacular feat. We're so subdued by mediocrity that we're convinced he did a great job. Yeah his sneaky good trades/signings led to players like Danault and Romanov, Toffoli etc. His bad trades/signings an led to Sergachev, Debrincat and Alzner. Can you imagine if MTL was a more sought after destination? We'd have Lucic and ***ing Deangelo on this team right now...... MTL not being a place players want to play has probably saved MB more than it hurt his roster!

He does great on the micro level but the macro level he's failed and 10 years is a long time. He's had plenty of time to mould this team into a perennial playoff team by now and with a few critical mistakes on his part, (Not rebuilding when he needed to, resigning Price to that albatross contract, etc), this team is literally poised to be a bubble team for the foreseeable future.

I repeat, MB is not a good GM, he's just not a bad GM either.
29 avr. 2021 à 10 h 40
#577
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Quoting: F50marco
"When you draft only twice in the top 10 in your 9-year tenure and you're somewhat close to the playoffs is a mastermind." - Raise your standards my man. Plenty of GM's have done this, this isn't a spectacular feat. We're so subdued by mediocrity that we're convinced he did a great job.


And who did this exactly? if you tell me Rutherford, Bowman or Lombardi, they inherited of already drafted stars that are frankly superior to the "elite" goalie, winger and defensemen that are Price, Subban and Pacioretty.
29 avr. 2021 à 11 h 44
#578
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Quoting: SevenLeg
And who did this exactly? if you tell me Rutherford, Bowman or Lombardi, they inherited of already drafted stars that are frankly superior to the "elite" goalie, winger and defensemen that are Price, Subban and Pacioretty.



Actually none of the above.

St Louis has not drafted in the top 10 in the past 10 years. Won a cup. Multiple deep runs.
Boston has not drafted in the top 10 the past ten years. Been to the finals multiple times. Multiple deep runs.
San Jose has drafted once in the top 10 in the past 10 years. Been to the finals and multiple deep runs
Nashville has drafted once in the top 10 in the past 10 years. been to the finals and multiple deep runs.
NYR, prior to their current rebuild, had not drafted top 10 since 2004. Been to the finals and multiple deep runs.

It has been done before, this isn't an incredible feat but frankly there are teams who haven't inherited any star players like Price, Subban and Pacioretty all at the same time and done equally as good as MB. So what does that tell you?

.....And just to keep things into perspective here, the previous Habs regime before MB took over in 2012, achieved all the same things that MB has so far and we don't hold Gainey/Gauthier in the same esteem as MB for some reason..... That regime missed the playoffs only TWICE which was not consecutive, went past the 1st round of the playoffs 3 TIMES and went to the conference final once in only a 8 year period.

I repeat, MB is not a GOOD GM, he is simply not a BAD one. I would take MB over Rejean Houle any day of the week. That doesn't remove the fact that MB's tenure since that the 16-17 season, including, has been baaaaaad! We got to stop putting a couple smallish steal for trades as the reason to keep him. HIs job is to put a quality team on the ice. This has not been a quality team since he started really tinkering with the team he inherited.
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29 avr. 2021 à 12 h 28
#579
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Cole Caufield is practicing with Evans and Lehkonen on a bottom six line. Perry-Staal-Frolik is probably the oldest Habs line I've seen in my life.
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29 avr. 2021 à 13 h 8
#580
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Quoting: SevenLeg
The roster situation is not ideal but we are still chasing a playoff spot and it's understandable if they want the best roster possible in order to do that. At this point, if we're not in the playoffs, we'd have approximately the 14th pick in a substandard draft. I'd rather push for now and figure it out later in the playoffs.


I get pushing for the playoffs, but what I don’t get is not waiting 2.5 hours until Mete is claimed to call up Ouellet on an emergency basis. If that happened the habs would have an extra recall. The same thing could’ve been avoided if they waived Mete a day earlier.

Plus the sending down of Romanov & Byron did absolutely nothing for the habs’ cap situation. Bergevin was planning for someone with a bigger cap hit than Gustafsson, and while I’m all for improving the team, hamstringing your recall situation to maybe have a chance at signing Tony DeAngelo is inexcusable. (And to way more than he’s worth, and that’s not including the fact that he’s a terrible person)

Also they would’ve been perfectly fine on deadline day if they had just put Ben Chiarot on LTIR a day earlier. And it’s not like they just found out that he’d be LTIR eligible, since it was 4.5 weeks since he was injured.

And this isn’t really a slight on Bergevin, since he likely didn’t know how long Drouin would be gone for until yesterday, but it is really annoying that if they waited one game for Caufield to make his debut they wouldn’t have used up their 4th recall.
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29 avr. 2021 à 13 h 13
#581
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Cole Caufield is practicing with Evans and Lehkonen on a bottom six line. Perry-Staal-Frolik is probably the oldest Habs line I've seen in my life.


I honestly like the third line a lot. But Perry is really being left out to dry with his linemates.

Also, the situation with Tatar isn’t looking great. He had a nagging injury which eventually caused him to leave Saturday’s game, but then he plays the full game on Monday, and now he’s been out since then. If it was bad enough for him to leave on Saturday, why was he playing on Monday? I really hope that mismanagement of this injury won’t lead to him missing any extra time.
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30 avr. 2021 à 23 h 31
#582
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‘Twas a good game today.

Allen wasn’t great, which doesn’t really matter for this year, but it’s a bit worrying that Seattle might not pick him. Chiarot was as expected, even worse than he already is since he’s not playing with Weber. It’s also weird that he’s the guy who played the right side, since he’s our only defenseman who hasn’t played the right side before tonight.

Anyways, on the positive side, Suzuki has really been heating up of late. And because of Winnipeg’s 7 game losing streak, finishing 3rd isn’t inconceivable at this point. The habs are 4 points back of the Jets, with 1 game in hand.

Carey’s situation is also seeming more positive, and he may be able to return before the playoffs. Now we just have to hope that Gallagher is back by game 1 of the playoffs, Drouin is back and feeling good at some point, and that Tatar and Weber can heal up in the next 2.5 weeks.
30 avr. 2021 à 23 h 38
#583
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
‘Twas a good game today.

Allen wasn’t great, which doesn’t really matter for this year, but it’s a bit worrying that Seattle might not pick him. Chiarot was as expected, even worse than he already is since he’s not playing with Weber. It’s also weird that he’s the guy who played the right side, since he’s our only defenseman who hasn’t played the right side before tonight.

Anyways, on the positive side, Suzuki has really been heating up of late. And because of Winnipeg’s 7 game losing streak, finishing 3rd isn’t inconceivable at this point. The habs are 4 points back of the Jets, with 1 game in hand.

Carey’s situation is also seeming more positive, and he may be able to return before the playoffs. Now we just have to hope that Gallagher is back by game 1 of the playoffs, Drouin is back and feeling good at some point, and that Tatar and Weber can heal up in the next 2.5 weeks.


It's weird because I feel like Chiarot was better than usual🤔
30 avr. 2021 à 23 h 45
#584
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Quoting: SevenLeg
It's weird because I feel like Chiarot was better than usual🤔


Really? To me he just seemed like normal Chiarot except uncomfortable in his positioning and just getting in Romanov’s way a lot.
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30 avr. 2021 à 23 h 50
#585
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Really? To me he just seemed like normal Chiarot except uncomfortable in his positioning and just getting in Romanov’s way a lot.


Better than usual is still not as good as he needs to be though. I just checked the numbers and it's quite decent and match the improvement that I've noticed : 78.8 xG (1st among dmen) %, 68.9 Corsi% (2nd after Romanov)

Cole Caufield a really impressive night.
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1 mai 2021 à 9 h 10
#586
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Better than usual is still not as good as he needs to be though. I just checked the numbers and it's quite decent and match the improvement that I've noticed : 78.8 xG (1st among dmen) %, 68.9 Corsi% (2nd after Romanov)

Cole Caufield a really impressive night.


Crazy that Romanov had such a good Corsi% considering he was a big factor in the first two goals (Yes Allen should've stopped them)
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1 mai 2021 à 11 h 41
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So Primeau’s starting, and Kulak is drawing in for Gustafsson. Which means that the habs finally seem to be comfortable with keeping Romanov on the PP as the QB.
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1 mai 2021 à 12 h 12
#588
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
So Primeau’s starting, and Kulak is drawing in for Gustafsson. Which means that the habs finally seem to be comfortable with keeping Romanov on the PP as the QB.


Best possible lineup?

Only way to make it better is to scratch Staal and play Poehling
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1 mai 2021 à 12 h 26
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Best possible lineup?

Only way to make it better is to scratch Staal and play Poehling


Well apparently if Armia isn’t ready today Belzile will play over someone like Poehling so we might not see him in the lineup this year
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1 mai 2021 à 12 h 27
#590
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Best possible lineup?

Only way to make it better is to scratch Staal and play Poehling


Yeah, but that is impossible to do unless Staal is injured. Also Staal’s better than Frolík.

Although I don’t think they could even send Frolík down and call up Poehling, since that probably constitutes as creating an emergency situation.
1 mai 2021 à 12 h 30
#591
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Well apparently if Armia isn’t ready today Belzile will play over someone like Poehling so we might not see him in the lineup this year


Damn, I was completely focused on the win that I completely forgot about that. The injuries just keep piling up, don’t they. frown
1 mai 2021 à 13 h 1
#592
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our injuries are:

Brendan Gallagher
Shea Weber
Carey Price
Jonathan Drouin
Tomas Tatar
Paul Byron
potentially Joel Armia

tuff
1 mai 2021 à 13 h 3
#593
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Quoting: lebronisdagoat
our injuries are:

Brendan Gallagher
Shea Weber
Carey Price
Jonathan Drouin
Tomas Tatar
Paul Byron
potentially Joel Armia

tuff


tuff indeed thats like a whole lineup
1 mai 2021 à 13 h 56
#594
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Quoting: MTL_is_better_than_TOR
tuff indeed thats like a whole lineup


Well it's 3 top 6 wingers, 1 can be franchise goalie, 1 aging top 4 D, and 1 potentially 2 top 9/bottom 6 wingers, we are really using our wing depth though at this point it's our wing and center depth since we have about as many centers as wingers in our lineup by now
1 mai 2021 à 14 h 1
#595
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I forgot to mention something I found funny last night, it appears before last game Edmundson, Petry, Merrill, and Chiarot all shaved their beards so that there’s only the moustache left. Did the entire d-core just get together and agree to sport moustaches? Makes me wonder what Weber’s going to look like when he comes back. tears of joy
1 mai 2021 à 14 h 9
#596
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
I forgot to mention something I found funny last night, it appears before last game Edmundson, Petry, Merrill, and Chiarot all shaved their beards so that there’s only the moustache left. Did the entire d-core just get together and agree to sport moustaches? Makes me wonder what Weber’s going to look like when he comes back. tears of joy


i noticed that too lol
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1 mai 2021 à 15 h 20
#597
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
I forgot to mention something I found funny last night, it appears before last game Edmundson, Petry, Merrill, and Chiarot all shaved their beards so that there’s only the moustache left. Did the entire d-core just get together and agree to sport moustaches? Makes me wonder what Weber’s going to look like when he comes back. tears of joy


Playoff moustache, the new tradition...
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1 mai 2021 à 15 h 50
#598
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I took a look at our current UFA and RFA's projected contracts :

On one-year deals :

Danault : 4.719m
Tatar : 3.638m
Gustafsson : 2.058m
Kotkaniemi : 1.775m
Lehkonen : 1.758m
Armia : 1.602m
Merrill : 1.512m
Perry : 1.153m
Staal : 1.130m
Frolik : 0.885m
Leskinen : 0.733m
1 mai 2021 à 21 h 52
#599
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What a ride that was! Cole Caufield, first NHL goal, and the OT winner!

The called back goal was stupid, but sometimes bad moments like those can be evened out by great moments like Caufield’s game-winner.

Nick Suzuki has been phenomenal as of late. Jeff Petry is back to his start of the season self. Toffoli continues to score. Primeau was good.

Chiarot definitely looks way more comfortable tonight. And now, the question should be raised, is Ben Chiarot better than Weber? Also, is Weber even a top 6 D on the team? The powerplay has certainly benefited from his absence, and the 5-on-5 mobility and puck moving has improved as well.
1 mai 2021 à 22 h 5
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
What a ride that was! Cole Caufield, first NHL goal, and the OT winner!

The called back goal was stupid, but sometimes bad moments like those can be evened out by great moments like Caufield’s game-winner.

Nick Suzuki has been phenomenal as of late. Jeff Petry is back to his start of the season self. Toffoli continues to score. Primeau was good.

Chiarot definitely looks way more comfortable tonight. And now, the question should be raised, is Ben Chiarot better than Weber? Also, is Weber even a top 6 D on the team? The powerplay has certainly benefited from his absence, and the 5-on-5 mobility and puck moving has improved as well.


It's still unclear if Shea Weber's injury has been a thing for a long time or no. Since we are winning, may he take the time he needs to fully recover.
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