SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Montreal Canadiens

Montreal Canadiens Season Discussion Thread

28 avr. 2021 à 11 h 50
#551
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: oct. 2020
Messages: 12,707
Mentions "j'aime": 17,331
Quoting: HabsFan77
You seem to be a Habs cap expert, what about Romy and Evans?


Since Drouin is on LTIR the cap is not a problem anymore, we now have 5.8 in current cap space per CF
28 avr. 2021 à 11 h 55
#552
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2020
Messages: 1,786
Mentions "j'aime": 1,559
Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Since Drouin is on LTIR the cap is not a problem anymore, we now have 5.8 in current cap space per CF


I mean in the recall situation
28 avr. 2021 à 12 h 16
#553
Démarrer sujet
Former Hockey Fan
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2017
Messages: 13,144
Mentions "j'aime": 10,516
Quoting: HabsFan77
You seem to be a Habs cap expert, what about Romy and Evans?


Romanov won’t be able to play unless we have 2 injuries on D. One of Evans/Caufield can play in every game, and the other one will be able to play if we have a forward injury (other than Drouin & Gallagher). Once the playoffs start the habs can dress whoever they want.
nickthehabsfan a aimé ceci.
28 avr. 2021 à 17 h 30
#554
WentWughes
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: nov. 2016
Messages: 10,696
Mentions "j'aime": 10,259
Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Romanov won’t be able to play unless we have 2 injuries on D. One of Evans/Caufield can play in every game, and the other one will be able to play if we have a forward injury (other than Drouin & Gallagher). Once the playoffs start the habs can dress whoever they want.


Both Evans and Caufield are on emergency recall. If Romanov plays today than it will be their last recall available. Once Byron comes back, only one of Evans/Caufield can play.
Kotkaniemi15 a aimé ceci.
28 avr. 2021 à 17 h 58
#555
Démarrer sujet
Former Hockey Fan
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2017
Messages: 13,144
Mentions "j'aime": 10,516
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Both Evans and Caufield are on emergency recall. If Romanov plays today than it will be their last recall available. Once Byron comes back, only one of Evans/Caufield can play.


Exactly. I was explaining under the assumption that they won’t use their 4th recall, since all signs point to that being the case.
KSIxSKULLS a aimé ceci.
28 avr. 2021 à 20 h 10
#556
Démarrer sujet
Former Hockey Fan
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2017
Messages: 13,144
Mentions "j'aime": 10,516
So the habs used their 4th call up. Not sure I love that. It means that when/if one of Gallagher/Drouin get back they will be forced to play Eric Staal over Jake Evans and Cole Caufield. And in the playoffs no less.
28 avr. 2021 à 20 h 18
#557
Démarrer sujet
Former Hockey Fan
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2017
Messages: 13,144
Mentions "j'aime": 10,516
Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
So the habs used their 4th call up. Not sure I love that. It means that when/if one of Gallagher/Drouin get back they will be forced to play Eric Staal over Jake Evans and Cole Caufield. And in the playoffs no less.


Considering this and how he’s played, the Eric Staal could end up being the worst trade of Marc Bergevin’s tenure (depending on how the rest of the season turns out).
A_Habs_fan a aimé ceci.
28 avr. 2021 à 20 h 27
#558
Démarrer sujet
Former Hockey Fan
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2017
Messages: 13,144
Mentions "j'aime": 10,516
Fire Bergevin, fire Ducharme, fire everyone. This franchise is a mess.
28 avr. 2021 à 20 h 33
#559
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: oct. 2020
Messages: 12,707
Mentions "j'aime": 17,331
Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Fire Bergevin, fire Ducharme, fire everyone. This franchise is a mess.


I believe that Bergevin is the only one that should stay but Ducharme, our owner + should go, Bergy has mostly done a good job with what he had
SevenLeg a aimé ceci.
28 avr. 2021 à 20 h 37
#560
Hop on the Slaftrain
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: févr. 2019
Messages: 16,162
Mentions "j'aime": 20,483
Quoting: A_Habs_fan
I believe that Bergevin is the only one that should stay but Ducharme, our owner + should go, Bergy has mostly done a good job with what he had


The owner can't really go unless he sells the team lol. He has to change his mentality
28 avr. 2021 à 20 h 39
#561
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: oct. 2020
Messages: 12,707
Mentions "j'aime": 17,331
Quoting: SevenLeg
The owner can't really go unless he sells the team lol. He has to change his mentality


Yeah, not letting Bergevin rebuild was a mistake but I also think fans and media would also need a change of mentality which will never happen
28 avr. 2021 à 21 h 20
#562
Démarrer sujet
Former Hockey Fan
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2017
Messages: 13,144
Mentions "j'aime": 10,516
Quoting: A_Habs_fan
I believe that Bergevin is the only one that should stay but Ducharme, our owner + should go, Bergy has mostly done a good job with what he had

Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Yeah, not letting Bergevin rebuild was a mistake but I also think fans and media would also need a change of mentality which will never happen

Quoting: SevenLeg
The owner can't really go unless he sells the team lol. He has to change his mentality


Geoff Moulson didn’t have anything to do with the series of stupid roster decisions this year.

And I have no idea why anyone is thinking that Bergevin’s decisions are because of Moulson. Bergevin didn’t outright say “rebuild” in 2018 because it was one bad year and your franchise goalie is still here not getting any younger. The retool obviously went a bit better than expected in the first year, and no GM would ever try to keep making the team worse after a season like 18-19 with their roster construction.

Honestly, Bergevin has been a pretty good GM in his tenure, but I’m grumpy right now, the habs have made some stupid moves, and it’s been a terrible game tonight. Plus Bergevin looks like a lot better GM than he is because he’s been lucky with the players that he did acquire, and has been saved numerous times by players not wanting to come to Montréal (Duchene, Gardiner, Lucic, DeAngelo).
28 avr. 2021 à 21 h 23
#563
Démarrer sujet
Former Hockey Fan
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2017
Messages: 13,144
Mentions "j'aime": 10,516
**** this. I’m turning off the game and reading a Star Wars book. At least Star Wars can’t hurt me or piss me off.

Why do we even cheer for sports teams? Is it for enjoyment? Because 50% of the time it ends up not being enjoyable at all, and just puts you in a worse mood than you already were in.
F50marco a aimé ceci.
28 avr. 2021 à 21 h 38
#564
Hop on the Slaftrain
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: févr. 2019
Messages: 16,162
Mentions "j'aime": 20,483
Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Geoff Moulson didn’t have anything to do with the series of stupid roster decisions this year.

And I have no idea why anyone is thinking that Bergevin’s decisions are because of Moulson. Bergevin didn’t outright say “rebuild” in 2018 because it was one bad year and your franchise goalie is still here not getting any younger. The retool obviously went a bit better than expected in the first year, and no GM would ever try to keep making the team worse after a season like 18-19 with their roster construction.

Honestly, Bergevin has been a pretty good GM in his tenure, but I’m grumpy right now, the habs have made some stupid moves, and it’s been a terrible game tonight. Plus Bergevin looks like a lot better GM than he is because he’s been lucky with the players that he did acquire, and has been saved numerous times by players not wanting to come to Montréal (Duchene, Gardiner, Lucic, DeAngelo).


I've been watching hockey for a whiiiile and I've seen three GMs at the end of this team. All of them were talking about improvements year after year. I don't believe that you can't find 3 different general managers including two who have played over 1000 games as a player and none of them can pronounce the word rebuild. It's anchored in the team's mentality and the mentality is set by the businessmen owning the team.

All those Duchene, Gardiner & Lucic stories were a thing because the whole organization has always been too lazy to sit, wait & develop their own prospects and was always chasing quick success.

Only 4 of our roster players were drafted by the Habs during Bergevin's tenure (Romanov, Lehkonen, Kotkaniemi, Evans) and only one was a 1st round pick. The fact that we are somehow in contention with a bunch of acquisitions and signings brought together just proves that Bergevin is good at what he does.

Montréal is one of the biggest hockey markets in the world and it only has one sports team that everyone is obsessed about. It's not easy to commit to a rebuild but if the Leafs and the Rangers have found a way to do it, there's no excuse.
lebronisdagoat et A_Habs_fan a aimé ceci.
28 avr. 2021 à 21 h 49
#565
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 19,556
Mentions "j'aime": 6,705
Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Geoff Moulson didn’t have anything to do with the series of stupid roster decisions this year.

And I have no idea why anyone is thinking that Bergevin’s decisions are because of Moulson. Bergevin didn’t outright say “rebuild” in 2018 because it was one bad year and your franchise goalie is still here not getting any younger. The retool obviously went a bit better than expected in the first year, and no GM would ever try to keep making the team worse after a season like 18-19 with their roster construction.

Honestly, Bergevin has been a pretty good GM in his tenure, but I’m grumpy right now, the habs have made some stupid moves, and it’s been a terrible game tonight. Plus Bergevin looks like a lot better GM than he is because he’s been lucky with the players that he did acquire, and has been saved numerous times by players not wanting to come to Montréal (Duchene, Gardiner, Lucic, DeAngelo).


This is what I don't understand.

How can Bergevin be a good GM if this team has been bad for most of his tenure? And when it was good, it was the players that were here before him that gave him most of that success. Elite Price, Elite Subban, Elite Pacioretty. Since those 3 being united, this team has been bad overall.

Has MB made some great trades? Yes, definitely.
Has MB signed some good contracts? Sure.
Have those moves = team success? Nope...... not even close. The teams major success came from when he hardly made any alterations to the teams.

I think this is the end for MB in Montreal after this year and frankly I want to see a fresh start with this team.
28 avr. 2021 à 22 h 3
#566
Hop on the Slaftrain
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: févr. 2019
Messages: 16,162
Mentions "j'aime": 20,483
Quoting: F50marco
This is what I don't understand.

How can Bergevin be a good GM if this team has been bad for most of his tenure? And when it was good, it was the players that were here before him that gave him most of that success. Elite Price, Elite Subban, Elite Pacioretty. Since those 3 being united, this team has been bad overall.

Has MB made some great trades? Yes, definitely.
Has MB signed some good contracts? Sure.
Have those moves = team success? Nope...... not even close. The teams major success came from when he hardly made any alterations to the teams.

I think this is the end for MB in Montreal after this year and frankly I want to see a fresh start with this team.


He turned Subban into a better player in Shea Weber. When Pacioretty stopped working, he turned him into Suzuki and Tatar who had a bigger combined impact. Price naturally started to decline at some point.

I understand the need of a fresh start, but I don't think MB is the pawn to move even though he's the odd man out.

The main reason why we are somewhat close to being a playoffs team are the acquisitions of last summer. Without Toffoli, Anderson, Allen we could very well be closer to Vancouver or even Ottawa.
28 avr. 2021 à 22 h 31
#567
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 19,556
Mentions "j'aime": 6,705
Quoting: SevenLeg
He turned Subban into a better player in Shea Weber. When Pacioretty stopped working, he turned him into Suzuki and Tatar who had a bigger combined impact. Price naturally started to decline at some point.

I understand the need of a fresh start, but I don't think MB is the pawn to move even though he's the odd man out.

The main reason why we are somewhat close to being a playoffs team are the acquisitions of last summer. Without Toffoli, Anderson, Allen we could very well be closer to Vancouver or even Ottawa.


That trade is highly highly overrated and narrow sighted to the max.

He turned Subban into a player that has done what exactly? I love Weber as much as the next guy but people make it out to be that Weber is this superstar player....... he has never been a superstar since arriving in Montreal and he's going to be a burden starting this year going forward where Subban would have been already off the books by then. I still think the hypothetical EDM trade was wayyy better, obviously in hindsight but then again we all were worried about Weber's contract the minute the trade was made. Our worries were justified.

As for the Subban side of it, he has been bad ever since going to the Devils. I think people need to realize that Subban has been bad but so has his entire team.... Swap Weber with Subban during that same time and we'd be calling Weber finished as much as Subban....

That trade was not a great trade for MTL. Its just not bad either.
28 avr. 2021 à 22 h 35
#568
Hop on the Slaftrain
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: févr. 2019
Messages: 16,162
Mentions "j'aime": 20,483
Quoting: F50marco
That trade is highly highly overrated and narrow sighted to the max.

He turned Subban into a player that has done what exactly? I love Weber as much as the next guy but people make it out to be that Weber is this superstar player....... he has never been a superstar since arriving in Montreal and he's going to be a burden starting this year going forward where Subban would have been already off the books by then. I still think the hypothetical EDM trade was wayyy better, obviously in hindsight but then again we all were worried about Weber's contract the minute the trade was made. Our worries were justified.

As for the Subban side of it, he has been bad ever since going to the Devils. I think people need to realize that Subban has been bad but so has his entire team.... Swap Weber with Subban during that same time and we'd be calling Weber finished as much as Subban....

That trade was not a great trade for MTL. Its just not bad either.


He didn't win the trade but he traded Subban for player who has been better for longer. Subban also had an unimpressive last season with Nashville. It was short-sighted but it shows how great Bergevin was at extending the "window" with the few assets he had. The pillars were just not strong enough to bring the team to contention.
28 avr. 2021 à 22 h 38
#569
Habs fan somehow
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: févr. 2017
Messages: 312
Mentions "j'aime": 80
Quoting: F50marco
I want to see a fresh start with this team.


What would be a credible course if actions that could turn this franchise around?
28 avr. 2021 à 22 h 53
#570
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 19,556
Mentions "j'aime": 6,705
Quoting: SevenLeg
He didn't win the trade but he traded Subban for player who has been better for longer. Subban also had an unimpressive last season with Nashville. It was short-sighted but it shows how great Bergevin was at extending the "window" with the few assets he had. The pillars were just not strong enough to bring the team to contention.


Subbans last season in Nashville was not much worse than Webers best season with the Habs. Also Subban's best season with Nashville is light years better than Weber's best with the Habs. The only time Subban has been worse has been last year with the Devils. Considering how much of a step back Weber is taking this year, keeping Subban throughout all this time would have been a better solution. Weber is going to be bad for the remainder of that contract and he's got 5 more years after this one! I defended Weber nay sayers in the past because Weber was still playing great but had a bad contract. Now hes playing bad and has a bad contract. Subban has one year left.....

We also forget, MB was trading one of the best dmen in the league at the time. Getting rid of him shouldn't have been such a chore for any GM. He should have won that trade, easily. Can you imagine where the Habs would have been with the rumored Subban+9th for Hall+4th?

As for your last part, I disagree, it showed how poorly a decision it was to try and force an extended push when all the pieces were crumbling around him. Thats MB's fault that the pillars were not strong enough, that should have been the reason to not push.

MB is a great pro scout and assistant GM. He knows how to find the little details in players that wins him trades on the micro level. Weise for Danault and Romanov style. But when it comes to big game changing things, he's mostly failed. He's not a bad GM, but I''ll argue to the end of days that he isn't a good GM either.
28 avr. 2021 à 23 h 0
#571
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 19,556
Mentions "j'aime": 6,705
Quoting: gm_jeanguy
What would be a credible course if actions that could turn this franchise around?


Frankly there's nothing any GM can do to turn around this team swiftly. Any real change will take a couple years to make happen. Minimum.
A_Habs_fan et SevenLeg a aimé ceci.
29 avr. 2021 à 9 h 38
#572
Hop on the Slaftrain
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: févr. 2019
Messages: 16,162
Mentions "j'aime": 20,483
Quoting: F50marco
Subbans last season in Nashville was not much worse than Webers best season with the Habs. Also Subban's best season with Nashville is light years better than Weber's best with the Habs. The only time Subban has been worse has been last year with the Devils. Considering how much of a step back Weber is taking this year, keeping Subban throughout all this time would have been a better solution. Weber is going to be bad for the remainder of that contract and he's got 5 more years after this one! I defended Weber nay sayers in the past because Weber was still playing great but had a bad contract. Now hes playing bad and has a bad contract. Subban has one year left.....

We also forget, MB was trading one of the best dmen in the league at the time. Getting rid of him shouldn't have been such a chore for any GM. He should have won that trade, easily. Can you imagine where the Habs would have been with the rumored Subban+9th for Hall+4th?

As for your last part, I disagree, it showed how poorly a decision it was to try and force an extended push when all the pieces were crumbling around him. Thats MB's fault that the pillars were not strong enough, that should have been the reason to not push.

MB is a great pro scout and assistant GM. He knows how to find the little details in players that wins him trades on the micro level. Weise for Danault and Romanov style. But when it comes to big game changing things, he's mostly failed. He's not a bad GM, but I''ll argue to the end of days that he isn't a good GM either.


My bad I fell asleep and it was an interesting discussion.

Shea Weber has had a higher WAR than Subban since 18-19 (Subban's last year in Nashville). He's also considerably worse this season, he just does not get any backlash from the media because we never play against him. We can blame New Jersey's poor defense, sure, but when you're the one with the most icetime, you're the cornerstone of the defense and the main responsible for its lack of success. It does not mean he's washed, but he's in the weird gray area with Morrissey, Ristolainen, Jones in a way that they contribute to the team's sinking more than anyone else because of how they are used. Is Weber's contract going to bite us at some point? Potentially, but a 35-year-old guy who went through a lot and has crumbling legs is LTIR-bound. As we speak, he has a higher impact on his team than Subban has on his.

As for the trade, we needed a defenseman more than a winger if you ask me. Shea Weber was a safer bet to bring us to contention than Taylor Hall. Andrei Markov was getting old and Jeff Petry was not as good as he is right now.

It's not his fault that the pillars were not strong enough. He inherited of a decent team that was still far away from contention. The Canadiens never had two consecutive top 10 picks since 1980-81 (Wickenheiser, Hunter). That's 7 General Managers : Bergevin, Gauthier, Gainey, A. Savard, Houle, S. Savard, Grundman) Coincidentally, the Molson family has been the main owners since 1978. That said, I refuse to believe that they went through 6 General Managers and none of them sat and thought of a rebuild. The Molsons are among the most successful businessmen in Canada's history and hockey is a business. I bet they make as much money with a round 1 loss as the Stars made in their run to the finals last year.

Like you said, Bergevin is good at finding low-cost gems (Danault/Romanov, Kulak, Armia, etc.) and that's what makes him a good GM. Imagine what he could have done if we had drafted our own duo of stars that seem to be a requisite in order to win it all (Crosby/Malkin, Kopitar/Doughty, Backstrom/Ovechkin, Tarasenko/Pietrangelo, Vasilevskiy/Hedman, Kane/Toews) and we had combined it with Begevin's ability to pinpoint trade steals. The most valuable assets in hockey are 1st round picks and players who are subsequently drafted with the said picks. When you draft only twice in the top 10 in your 9-year tenure and you're somewhat close to the playoffs is a mastermind.
A_Habs_fan et lebronisdagoat a aimé ceci.
29 avr. 2021 à 9 h 43
#573
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: oct. 2020
Messages: 12,707
Mentions "j'aime": 17,331
Quoting: SevenLeg
My bad I fell asleep and it was an interesting discussion.

Shea Weber has had a higher WAR than Subban since 18-19 (Subban's last year in Nashville). He's also considerably worse this season, he just does not get any backlash from the media because we never play against him. We can blame New Jersey's poor defense, sure, but when you're the one with the most icetime, you're the cornerstone of the defense and the main responsible for its lack of success. It does not mean he's washed, but he's in the weird gray area with Morrissey, Ristolainen, Jones in a way that they contribute to the team's sinking more than anyone else because of how they are used. Is Weber's contract going to bite us at some point? Potentially, but a 35-year-old guy who went through a lot and has crumbling legs is LTIR-bound. As we speak, he has a higher impact on his team than Subban has on his.

As for the trade, we needed a defenseman more than a winger if you ask me. Shea Weber was a safer bet to bring us to contention than Taylor Hall. Andrei Markov was getting old and Jeff Petry was not as good as he is right now.

It's not his fault that the pillars were not strong enough. He inherited of a decent team that was still far away from contention. The Canadiens never had two consecutive top 10 picks since 1980-81 (Wickenheiser, Hunter). That's 7 General Managers : Bergevin, Gauthier, Gainey, A. Savard, Houle, S. Savard, Grundman) Coincidentally, the Molson family has been the main owners since 1978. That said, I refuse to believe that they went through 6 General Managers and none of them sat and thought of a rebuild. The Molsons are among the most successful businessmen in Canada's history and hockey is a business. I bet they make as much money with a round 1 loss as the Stars made in their run to the finals last year.

Like you said, Bergevin is good at finding low-cost gems (Danault/Romanov, Kulak, Armia, etc.) and that's what makes him a good GM. Imagine what he could have done if we had drafted our own duo of stars that seem to be a requisite in order to win it all (Crosby/Malkin, Kopitar/Doughty, Backstrom/Ovechkin, Tarasenko/Pietrangelo, Vasilevskiy/Hedman, Kane/Toews) and we had combined it with Begevin's ability to pinpoint trade steals. The most valuable assets in hockey are 1st round picks and players who are subsequently drafted with the said picks. When you draft only twice in the top 10 in your 9-year tenure and you're somewhat close to the playoffs is a mastermind.


Exactly Bergevin has done a good job with what he has. Of course every GM makes some mistakes ( Alzner, Sergachev ) but he has built a contending team on paper for most of his years as a GM.
SevenLeg a aimé ceci.
29 avr. 2021 à 9 h 52
#574
Démarrer sujet
Former Hockey Fan
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2017
Messages: 13,144
Mentions "j'aime": 10,516
Well in my anger I seem to have set off an avalanche. Sorry about that.

The only reason I might not want Bergevin here is if these dumb roster decisions end up handcuffing us in the playoffs, and because of the fact that he probably tried to acquire Tony DeAngelo. Speaking of which, all the weird roster stuff on deadline day was probably because they were trying to acquire him. Obviously we don’t know the whole story, but it’s really not a good look for Bergevin right now.
A_Habs_fan a aimé ceci.
29 avr. 2021 à 10 h 4
#575
Hop on the Slaftrain
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: févr. 2019
Messages: 16,162
Mentions "j'aime": 20,483
Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Well in my anger I seem to have set off an avalanche. Sorry about that.

The only reason I might not want Bergevin here is if these dumb roster decisions end up handcuffing us in the playoffs, and because of the fact that he probably tried to acquire Tony DeAngelo. Speaking of which, all the weird roster stuff on deadline day was probably because they were trying to acquire him. Obviously we don’t know the whole story, but it’s really not a good look for Bergevin right now.


The roster situation is not ideal but we are still chasing a playoff spot and it's understandable if they want the best roster possible in order to do that. At this point, if we're not in the playoffs, we'd have approximately the 14th pick in a substandard draft. I'd rather push for now and figure it out later in the playoffs.
A_Habs_fan a aimé ceci.
 
Répondre
To create a post please Login or S'inscrire
Question:
Options:
Ajouter une option
Soumettre le sondage