Quoting: F50marco
Subbans last season in Nashville was not much worse than Webers best season with the Habs. Also Subban's best season with Nashville is light years better than Weber's best with the Habs. The only time Subban has been worse has been last year with the Devils. Considering how much of a step back Weber is taking this year, keeping Subban throughout all this time would have been a better solution. Weber is going to be bad for the remainder of that contract and he's got 5 more years after this one! I defended Weber nay sayers in the past because Weber was still playing great but had a bad contract. Now hes playing bad and has a bad contract. Subban has one year left.....
We also forget, MB was trading one of the best dmen in the league at the time. Getting rid of him shouldn't have been such a chore for any GM. He should have won that trade, easily. Can you imagine where the Habs would have been with the rumored Subban+9th for Hall+4th?
As for your last part, I disagree, it showed how poorly a decision it was to try and force an extended push when all the pieces were crumbling around him. Thats MB's fault that the pillars were not strong enough, that should have been the reason to not push.
MB is a great pro scout and assistant GM. He knows how to find the little details in players that wins him trades on the micro level. Weise for Danault and Romanov style. But when it comes to big game changing things, he's mostly failed. He's not a bad GM, but I''ll argue to the end of days that he isn't a good GM either.
My bad I fell asleep and it was an interesting discussion.
Shea Weber has had a higher WAR than Subban since 18-19 (Subban's last year in Nashville). He's also considerably worse this season, he just does not get any backlash from the media because we never play against him. We can blame New Jersey's poor defense, sure, but when you're the one with the most icetime, you're the cornerstone of the defense and the main responsible for its lack of success. It does not mean he's washed, but he's in the weird gray area with Morrissey, Ristolainen, Jones in a way that they contribute to the team's sinking more than anyone else because of how they are used. Is Weber's contract going to bite us at some point? Potentially, but a 35-year-old guy who went through a lot and has crumbling legs is LTIR-bound. As we speak, he has a higher impact on his team than Subban has on his.
As for the trade, we needed a defenseman more than a winger if you ask me. Shea Weber was a safer bet to bring us to contention than Taylor Hall. Andrei Markov was getting old and Jeff Petry was not as good as he is right now.
It's not his fault that the pillars were not strong enough. He inherited of a decent team that was still far away from contention. The Canadiens never had two consecutive top 10 picks since 1980-81 (Wickenheiser, Hunter). That's 7 General Managers : Bergevin, Gauthier, Gainey, A. Savard, Houle, S. Savard, Grundman) Coincidentally, the Molson family has been the main owners since 1978. That said, I refuse to believe that they went through 6 General Managers and none of them sat and thought of a rebuild. The Molsons are among the most successful businessmen in Canada's history and hockey is a business. I bet they make as much money with a round 1 loss as the Stars made in their run to the finals last year.
Like you said, Bergevin is good at finding low-cost gems (Danault/Romanov, Kulak, Armia, etc.) and that's what makes him a good GM. Imagine what he could have done if we had drafted our own duo of stars that seem to be a requisite in order to win it all (Crosby/Malkin, Kopitar/Doughty, Backstrom/Ovechkin, Tarasenko/Pietrangelo, Vasilevskiy/Hedman, Kane/Toews) and we had combined it with Begevin's ability to pinpoint trade steals. The most valuable assets in hockey are 1st round picks and players who are subsequently drafted with the said picks. When you draft only twice in the top 10 in your 9-year tenure and you're somewhat close to the playoffs is a mastermind.