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Montreal Canadiens Season Discussion Thread

14 jui à 20 h 12
#1001
Habs4Ever
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Quoting: SevenLeg
I've got mixed feelings about this tbh. Weber is the captain and all but is not nearly the $8M defender he's paid to be. I'd say go big on Hamilton or Pulock the year after.


I'm not really sure how we can do it, but perhaps use the money for a real #1 LHD and play him with Petry. Petry is good enough for the top pair
14 jui à 20 h 14
#1002
Habs4Ever
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Quoting: F50marco
With Weber most likely done, the team is now very weak on the RH. Petry's age means he will decline....eventually. After that we got Cale Fleury....... So yeah, its Hamilton time!


Not sure if we should go after a #1 RHD. Petry is good in that spot, it's time we get him a real partner and perhaps make a package involving Edmundson or Chiarot for a RH upgrade
14 jui à 20 h 19
#1003
Rejoint: mai 2015
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Not sure if we should go after a #1 RHD. Petry is good in that spot, it's time we get him a real partner and perhaps make a package involving Edmundson or Chiarot for a RH upgrade


Petry is turning 33 turning 34 in Dec. Banking everything on him would be risky IMO. The Habs finished 18th because there defense was really bad and showed its age this year. I think Edmunson and Petry were dynamite together but Chiarot and Weber were atrocious. (Season). Im all for upgrading Chiarot, or better yet playing him on the bottom pair with Romanov and getting another top pair LH and RH to replace both of them.

Martinez - Hamilton top pair/2nd pair maybe?
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14 jui à 20 h 22
#1004
Habs4Ever
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Quoting: F50marco
Petry is turning 33 turning 34 in Dec. Banking everything on him would be risky IMO. The Habs finished 18th because there defense was really bad and showed its age this year. I think Edmunson and Petry were dynamite together but Chiarot and Weber were atrocious. (Season). Im all for upgrading Chiarot, or better yet playing him on the bottom pair with Romanov and getting another top pair LH and RH to replace both of them.

Martinez - Hamilton top pair/2nd pair maybe?


Hamilton alone is going to get more than Weber makes and we are already going to struggle to resign everybody important, I don't think it would be a smart idea to give Hamilton 9+ (rumours are he might get 10+). I'd be on board with Martinez though
14 jui à 20 h 26
#1005
Rejoint: mai 2015
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Hamilton alone is going to get more than Weber makes and we are already going to struggle to resign everybody important, I don't think it would be a smart idea to give Hamilton 9+ (rumours are he might get 10+). I'd be on board with Martinez though


We'll need a young anchor for years to come. Petry can't be the only good top pair RH in the org at his age. Im not saying 10+ to Hamilton, I don't think he'll get that. But at 8.5M where he'll probably land, hell yes. Its basically a wash for weber at that point. Who else? Montour? Savard? Thats a big downgrade to an already weakened d-core.
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14 jui à 20 h 28
#1006
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Quoting: F50marco
We'll need a young anchor for years to come. Petry can't be the only good top pair RH in the org at his age. Im not saying 10+ to Hamilton, I don't think he'll get that. But at 8.5M where he'll probably land, hell yes. Its basically a wash for weber at that point. Who else? Montour? Savard? Thats a big downgrade to an already weakened d-core.


That's why I said trade one of Chiarot/Edmundson + for a 2nd pairing RHD

Martinez-Petry
Edmundson -FA/Trade
Romanov - FA/Trade/Kulak
14 jui à 20 h 32
#1007
Habs4Ever
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Quoting: F50marco
We'll need a young anchor for years to come. Petry can't be the only good top pair RH in the org at his age. Im not saying 10+ to Hamilton, I don't think he'll get that. But at 8.5M where he'll probably land, hell yes. Its basically a wash for weber at that point. Who else? Montour? Savard? Thats a big downgrade to an already weakened d-core.


There are tons of depth options this year, Ideally (not realistic)

Dunn-Petry
Edmundson-Barrie
Romanov- One of the million FA's available

I know Barrie wants a lot, but perhaps offer him short term? Something like 6x3
14 jui à 20 h 33
#1008
Rejoint: mai 2015
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
That's why I said trade one of Chiarot/Edmundson + for a 2nd pairing RHD

Martinez-Petry
Edmundson -FA/Trade
Romanov - FA/Trade/Kulak


Depends on who. I don't think Chiarot and a 2nd gets much.
14 jui à 20 h 35
#1009
Habs4Ever
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Quoting: F50marco
Depends on who. I don't think Chiarot and a 2nd gets much.


I understand we have to give something to get something and we have many up and coming players

Brook/Fleury/Ylonen/Mysak/Poehling could all be available for the right player. The 31st overall pick shouldn't be off the table either. We can definitely get a good player with those pieces
14 jui à 20 h 40
#1010
Rejoint: mai 2015
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I understand we have to give something to get something and we have many up and coming players

Brook/Fleury/Ylonen/Mysak/Poehling could all be available for the right player. The 31st overall pick shouldn't be off the table either. We can definitely get a good player with those pieces


Now your talking! wink Any ideas who might be that guy though?
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14 jui à 20 h 43
#1011
Habs4Ever
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Quoting: F50marco
Now your talking! wink Any ideas who might be that guy though?


I'd love Dunn for the 2nd pairing, Blues were looking for a 1st round pick for him, I'd be willing to do the 31st + one of our mid tier prospects

Leddy could allegedly be had for cheap, although he might be too old for my blood

I'm sure there are a ton of guys available that we don't know about because of the expansion draft
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14 jui à 20 h 51
#1012
Rejoint: mai 2015
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I'd love Dunn for the 2nd pairing, Blues were looking for a 1st round pick for him, I'd be willing to do the 31st + one of our mid tier prospects

Leddy could allegedly be had for cheap, although he might be too old for my blood

I'm sure there are a ton of guys available that we don't know about because of the expansion draft


Ya I keep hearing Dunn but frankly im not sold on him. There is a reason he keeps coming up in rumors and could never breakthrough in STL. He'll be 25 in Oct and has a lot of baggage for that age. Leddy i think is a prime candidate. Remember he only has 1 year left so the age thing is fine. He'd be a good/cheap stop gap only.

But Im looking for a RHD. From what I can see, there aren't a whole lot that are available and or the right age and skill as Hamilton. that's why adding him would be a huge get. My gut says he won't sign here though, regardless of money.

Giordano, Suter might be some old vet options......
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14 jui à 20 h 59
#1013
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Not sure if we should go after a #1 RHD. Petry is good in that spot, it's time we get him a real partner and perhaps make a package involving Edmundson or Chiarot for a RH upgrade


It’s better to have your top 2 D spread across 2 pairings anyways. And we have a huge organizational hole on the right side, so if we can get a RHD that’s so much better.
14 jui à 21 h 14
#1014
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So for Montréal’s offseason:

We’re losing Allen no matter what, through trade or expansion. We’ll need to replace him with another backup goalie.

Under the assumption Drouin plays for Montréal: The habs need to acquire 2 defenseman in some manner.

If Drouin doesn’t play for Montréal: Still need to acquire 2D. Need another forward. This could be Armia, although if he’s the forward we might not be using our cap space to its fullest potential.

So for what I had expected to be a quiet offseason, might be even crazier than last year. The habs are going to be massive players in free agency this year. Let’s hope that the run to the Stanley Cup Finals has made them a more attractive UFA destination.
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14 jui à 21 h 39
#1015
Rejoint: mai 2015
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Imagine this, Weber traded back to Nashville so they can LTIR him but the price would be:

Weber+ 1st MTL
for
Fabbro+1st NSH

Habs move up in draft and get a future Weber replacement.

That might be a decent payment instead of a 4.9M recapture penalty.
14 jui à 21 h 50
#1016
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Quoting: F50marco
Imagine this, Weber traded back to Nashville so they can LTIR him but the price would be:

Weber+ 1st MTL
for
Fabbro+1st NSH

Habs move up in draft and get a future Weber replacement.

That might be a decent payment instead of a 4.9M recapture penalty.


That’s a possibility, but it’s extremely unlikely he officially retires. Since it’s nothing concrete, all sides will probably hold out in the hope that he might be healthy for the year after next season. Also, by retiring this year Weber would be throwing away $12 million for no reason.

Edit: So what I mean to say is, Nashville calls Montréal’s bluff, understanding Weber would never officially retire.
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14 jui à 22 h 02
#1017
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
That’s a possibility, but it’s extremely unlikely he officially retires. Since it’s nothing concrete, all sides will probably hold out in the hope that he might be healthy for the year after next season. Also, by retiring this year Weber would be throwing away $12 million for no reason.

Edit: So what I mean to say is, Nashville calls Montréal’s bluff, understanding Weber would never officially retire.


12m over 5 years! he has 6M this year then 3M, than 3 years of 1M.

At his age and career earning, why would he go through all that? Another 6M after earning over 100M?? I think he can honestly say its not worth it. But even then assume, your right and he plays one more year to get that extra cash then retires, the recapture INCREASES for NSH from 4.9M to 6.1M.

Weber retiring any year later than this one screws NSH even harder. NSH should want him to retire this year to decrease the recapture penalty (but make it longer).
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14 jui à 22 h 33
#1018
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Quoting: F50marco
12m over 5 years! he has 6M this year then 3M, than 3 years of 1M.

At his age and career earning, why would he go through all that? Another 6M after earning over 100M?? I think he can honestly say its not worth it. But even then assume, your right and he plays one more year to get that extra cash then retires, the recapture INCREASES for NSH from 4.9M to 6.1M.

Weber retiring any year later than this one screws NSH even harder. NSH should want him to retire this year to decrease the recapture penalty (but make it longer).


I understand that, but when you say “it’s not worth it” what isn’t worth doing for Weber? Because he’s doing absolutely nothing while getting paid millions by insurance companies. While it may not mean as much to him as it would for normal people, no one is going to turn down free money.

(This is assuming that he does have a career-ending injury)
14 jui à 22 h 48
#1019
Rejoint: mai 2015
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
I understand that, but when you say “it’s not worth it” what isn’t worth doing for Weber? Because he’s doing absolutely nothing while getting paid millions by insurance companies. While it may not mean as much to him as it would for normal people, no one is going to turn down free money.

(This is assuming that he does have a career-ending injury)


1) Habs can give Weber a front office job a la Pronger with Flyers to make him whole again if needed. So money is not a problem here.
2) LTIR is not as simple as CF makes it seem, Habs would have to make sure they spend right up to the cap in order to benefit from this and on top of that insurance companies do not pay the whole salary. Only about 1-85% of the contract depending on the coverage. So Habs would be stuck paying a small amount anyway. Having to navigate the cap with a large LTIR cap hit is not "easy". Habs benefit from not having that contract anymore and having the flexibility to spend as they see fit.
3) Habs gain more from Weber retiring then they do from LTIR. Cap saving, cap headche gone, trade Weber to NSH for assets, use cap space to replace Weber, etc. etc. If they LTIR Weber they are forced to do things in order for it to be beneficial and remember this would be 5 years! Not juts one year. This could screw the Habs down the line.
4) Weber gains nothing from going on LTIR (assuming he wants to retire - if he actually wants to come back then that changes everything). Nashville is the only loser in this scenario and Weber would have no allegiance to them after being traded away from NSH. So Weber feeling bad for Nashville being stuck with a 4.9M recapture doesn't make sense. Would Sergachev be as forgiving? Pacioretty? Subban? I don't think so. Every team loses that allegiance once they trade the player away.

Once again all this is assuming Weber truthfully wants to retire. If he actually wants to come back, then that changes everything. We're all just assuming he wants to retire. No one knows for sure yet.

Also, there is a small stipulation that the NHL may intervene here but given that Luongo retired from his contract leaving VAN with a recapture a year ago, I don't see how Bettman could justify nixing this but not the Luongo retirement.
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14 jui à 23 h 18
#1020
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Quoting: F50marco
1) Habs can give Weber a front office job a la Pronger with Flyers to make him whole again if needed. So money is not a problem here.
2) LTIR is not as simple as CF makes it seem, Habs would have to make sure they spend right up to the cap in order to benefit from this and on top of that insurance companies do not pay the whole salary. Only about 1-85% of the contract depending on the coverage. So Habs would be stuck paying a small amount anyway. Having to navigate the cap with a large LTIR cap hit is not "easy". Habs benefit from not having that contract anymore and having the flexibility to spend as they see fit.
3) Habs gain more from Weber retiring then they do from LTIR. Cap saving, cap headche gone, trade Weber to NSH for assets, use cap space to replace Weber, etc. etc. If they LTIR Weber they are forced to do things in order for it to be beneficial and remember this would be 5 years! Not juts one year. This could screw the Habs down the line.
4) Weber gains nothing from going on LTIR (assuming he wants to retire - if he actually wants to come back then that changes everything). Nashville is the only loser in this scenario and Weber would have no allegiance to them after being traded away from NSH. So Weber feeling bad for Nashville being stuck with a 4.9M recapture doesn't make sense. Would Sergachev be as forgiving? Pacioretty? Subban? I don't think so. Every team loses that allegiance once they trade the player away.

Once again all this is assuming Weber truthfully wants to retire. If he actually wants to come back, then that changes everything. We're all just assuming he wants to retire. No one knows for sure yet.

Also, there is a small stipulation that the NHL may intervene here but given that Luongo retired from his contract leaving VAN with a recapture a year ago, I don't see how Bettman could justify nixing this but not the Luongo retirement.


I agree with everything you’re saying. I’m just thinking that it’s much more likely that Weber wants to still play hockey but can’t because of his injuries than that he just decided to retire.
14 jui à 23 h 35
#1021
Rejoint: mai 2015
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
I agree with everything you’re saying. I’m just thinking that it’s much more likely that Weber wants to still play hockey but can’t because of his injuries than that he just decided to retire.


Well lets examine the situation:

- If he missed the entirety of next year, he'll be 37 at the start of the following season. 22-23
- He'll be owed only 6M over the next 4 years remaining at that point. 3M for 1 year then 3 years of 1M.
- How many dman are able to still be effective at 37-38? Not many and most are considered anchors on their teams.
- Not only is it hard enough for Weber to be good at age 37, how hard would it be for a 37 year old to go through all those injuries AND THEN come back and play good?

Why does a player want to play hockey? Because he believes he can help his team. Why would a 37 year old Weber, after multiple injuries loom at himself in the mirror and think he could come back to even 50% his normal self?

I don't know how he can honestly think after missing a full year at 37 after all those injuries, that he'll just be able to come back in the NHL and dominate. Not to mention that MTL is left holding the bag now because they can't replace his salary long term if they know he'll try to come back. So no Hamilton. it'll have to be 1 year deals for lesser players until they know he CANT come back and is forced to retire.

Weber is in a precarious position. What he's attempting to do has almost never been done before at his age. Most players who had to deal with things like this and came back were still in their prime. Stamkos with his leg. Kevan Miller with his back. etc etc

If Weber really wants to take one more kick at the can, Im all for it, but Nashville is certainly crapping their pants every year that goes by without him retiring. That recapture penalty will only get more expensive.
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15 jui à 6 h 36
#1022
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So if Weber is done for next year and maybe for the rest of his career, we need a RD fast, Petry and Cale Fleury is not a good right side ( Romanov can play right but not ideal, may be an option ) I’m looking at our D next year and I’d go with something along the lines of
Edmundson-Petry
Chiarot/Romanov-x
Chiarot/Romanov-Kulak/Fleury

Of course if we trade Chiarot then I’d sign a depth defenceman in case Fleury isn’t ready or to rotate
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15 jui à 6 h 58
#1023
Habs4Ever
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
So if Weber is done for next year and maybe for the rest of his career, we need a RD fast, Petry and Cale Fleury is not a good right side ( Romanov can play right but not ideal, may be an option ) I’m looking at our D next year and I’d go with something along the lines of
Edmundson-Petry
Chiarot/Romanov-x
Chiarot/Romanov-Kulak/Fleury

Of course if we trade Chiarot then I’d sign a depth defenceman in case Fleury isn’t ready or to rotate


I'd much rather get #5/#6 defensemen via FA and find a trade because both Hamilton + Barrie are going to get overpaid. I'd love to get a guy like Jordie Benn back for the 3rd pair
15 jui à 6 h 59
#1024
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
So if Weber is done for next year and maybe for the rest of his career, we need a RD fast, Petry and Cale Fleury is not a good right side ( Romanov can play right but not ideal, may be an option ) I’m looking at our D next year and I’d go with something along the lines of
Edmundson-Petry
Chiarot/Romanov-x
Chiarot/Romanov-Kulak/Fleury

Of course if we trade Chiarot then I’d sign a depth defenceman in case Fleury isn’t ready or to rotate


I think Montréal needs to acquire 2 D this summer. 1 top 4 guy, and 1 guy who’s top 4 or maybe 3rd pairing. I guess there is the possibility we just keep Kulak, but no LHD is overly comfortable on the right side, so IR would be better to lose him and sign a RHD instead.

I think no matter what, Romanov plays on the 3rd pair to start the year, and Cale Fleury is the 7th defenseman.
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15 jui à 7 h 01
#1025
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I'd much rather get #5/#6 defensemen via FA and find a trade because both Hamilton + Barrie are going to get overpaid. I'd love to get a guy like Jordie Benn back for the 3rd pair


If we’re going to sign someone like Jordie Benn instead, why not just keep Kulak? I’d like to sign Travis Hamonuc to play with Romanov, since he’s better than Benn & a RHD.
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