Playing with the thought

Forums/Armchair-GM

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Créé par: justaBoss

Équipe: 2020-21 Hurricanes de la Caroline

Date de création initiale: 6 janv. 2021

Publié: 6 janv. 2021

Mode - plafond salarial: Basique

Description

What the Canes get:
- a winger they've been rumored to be after for a while now. Laine would bring them the extra scoring prowess they've been lacking. Would be good for his career to get a new start. Canes also add Roslovic, who has reportedly requested for a trade, and Niku, who just doesn't seem to have room in the Jets D pool. CAR also adds on a bad contract to even out the value.

What the Jets get:
- a young centerman with two years left on his ELC, an offensive TOP4 D-man they lack, a good but tad expensive two-way mid-6 winger, a potential RHD prospect and a probably a low first round pick. Mainly assets for future building an sustaining a designated level of performance.

Notes:
- If Canes ever wanted to add Laine, they would certainly have to clear some long-term cap space for the guy, hence players like Skjei and Niederreiter must be added. WPG, namely a bit of a low market team, will not be adding such contracts without moving another, hence CAR takes in the LTIR bound contract of Little. Surely it doesn't affect the cap, but the actual money needs to be paid nonetheless.

- from what the rumors say, WPG would want Necas and Pesce as the main pieces in the exchange. CAR however, with Hamilton as a pending UFA, cannot risk losing their only long-term RHD, hence he's replaced with Skjei and some relatively decent secondary assets (Keane, remaining value of the first rounder etc). It is clear that a player like Laine is not moving cheap.

- it's purely speculating, but I'd imagine it'd work somewhat well for the Jets locker room to get rid of two guys (Laine and Roslovic) who have constantly been on the market for a while now. Could relieve some pressure of there if you know what I'm saying.

Signatures de joueurs autonomes

RFA		ANS	CAP HIT
Roslovic, Jack		2	2 550 000 $

Transactions

CAR

WPG

Rachats de contrats

Alexander Semin: 2 333 333 $
Patrick Marleau: 0 $

Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2021
2022
2023

FORMATION

VUE À LONG TERME

INTÉGRÉ

TEXTE INTÉGRÉ

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
23	81 500 000 $	78 407 322 $	1 367 073 $	3 170 000 $	3 092 678 $

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Teräväinen, Teuvo 5 400 000 $5 400 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 4	Aho, Sebastian 8 460 250 $8 460 250 $ C UFA - 4	Laine, Patrik 4 995 000 $4 995 000 $ C, AD, AG UFA - 1
Svechnikov, Andrei 925 000 $925 000 $ (2 650 000 $$3M) AG, AD UFA - 1	Staal, Jordan 6 000 000 $6 000 000 $ C, AG NMC UFA - 3	Trocheck, Vincent 4 750 000 $4 750 000 $ C, AD UFA - 2
Foegele, Warren 2 150 000 $2 150 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 1	Geekie, Morgan 763 333 $763 333 $ (20 000 $$20K) C, AD RFA - 1	Roslovic, Jack 2 550 000 $2 550 000 $ C, AD UFA - 2
McGinn, Brock 2 100 000 $2 100 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 1	Martinook, Jordan 2 000 000 $2 000 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 1	Fast, Jesper 2 000 000 $2 000 000 $ AD UFA - 3

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Slavin, Jaccob 5 300 000 $5 300 000 $ DG UFA - 5	Hamilton, Dougie 5 750 000 $5 750 000 $ DD UFA - 1	Reimer, James 3 400 000 $3 400 000 $ G UFA - 1
Fleury, Haydn 1 300 000 $1 300 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 2	Pesce, Brett 4 025 000 $4 025 000 $ DD UFA - 4	Mrázek, Petr 3 125 000 $3 125 000 $ G UFA - 1
Gardiner, Jake 4 050 000 $4 050 000 $ DG M-NTC UFA - 3	Niku, Sami 725 000 $725 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 2

Laissés de côté	Liste des blessés (IR)	Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Dzingel, Ryan 3 375 000 $3 375 000 $ AG, AD, C UFA - 1		Little, Bryan 5 291 667 $5 291 667 $ C, AD M-NTC UFA - 4
Bean, Jake 863 333 $863 333 $ (500 000 $$500K) DG/DD RFA - 1
Ryan, Joakim 700 000 $700 000 $ DG UFA - 1

Équipe de réserve
Nedeljkovic, Alex 737 500 $737 500 $ (0 $$00 $$0) G UFA - 1
Lorentz, Steven 725 000 $725 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0) C, AG, AD UFA - 2
Shore, Drew 700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0) C UFA - 1
Rempal, Sheldon 700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0) AG, AD UFA - 1
Forsling, Gustav 700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0) DG UFA - 1
Bishop, Clark 700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0) C, AG UFA - 1

6 janv. 2021 à 20 h 28

Windjammer

Rejoint: juill. 2020

Messages: 15,684

Mentions "j'aime": 6,958

I can't see Winnipeg taking back a cap dump and a horribad contract like Skjei's especially being an LD they don't need, if they move Laine.

arafay a aimé ceci.

6 janv. 2021 à 20 h 29

justaBoss

Démarrer sujet

What in tarnation

Rejoint: oct. 2017

Messages: 32,709

Mentions "j'aime": 31,449

Quoting: Windjammer

I can't see Winnipeg taking back a cap dump and a horribad contract like Skjei's especially being an LD they don't need, if they move Laine.

There's no cap dumps going either way. Both Niederreiter and Skjei are very useful players.

Skjei could potentially take the 2nd pair LD role, with Heinola playing on the right side. I think he's able to play RD as well.

Radu47 a aimé ceci.

6 janv. 2021 à 20 h 31

jgimp69

Jet69

Rejoint: janv. 2018

Messages: 2,595

Mentions "j'aime": 1,142

Zero interest in anything other than Necas and the 1st

arafay a aimé ceci.

6 janv. 2021 à 20 h 32

justaBoss

Démarrer sujet

What in tarnation

Rejoint: oct. 2017

Messages: 32,709

Mentions "j'aime": 31,449

Quoting: jgimp69

Zero interest in anything other than Necas and the 1st

why

6 janv. 2021 à 20 h 33

spockrock

Rejoint: août 2020

Messages: 1,513

Mentions "j'aime": 531

Way too many pieces:

CAR is willing to move Skjei or Gardiner and perhaps Necas: I doubt they’re willing to move much more. If I was WPG, I’d say no too. In my view, no way CAR deals Pesce.

6 janv. 2021 à 20 h 35

justaBoss

Démarrer sujet

What in tarnation

Rejoint: oct. 2017

Messages: 32,709

Mentions "j'aime": 31,449

Quoting: spockrock

Way too many pieces:

CAR is willing to move Skjei or Gardiner and perhaps Necas: I doubt they’re willing to move much more. If I was WPG, I’d say no too. In my view, no way CAR deals Pesce.

Skjei and especially Gardiner alone won't be enough. Some added pieces are needed.

I'm more or less trying to hit two birds with one stone in this exchange. CAR gets Laine and the money to re-sign him, and WPG gets some assets to build on.

6 janv. 2021 à 20 h 36

Windjammer

Rejoint: juill. 2020

Messages: 15,684

Mentions "j'aime": 6,958

Quoting: justaBoss

Niederrieter is a cap dump and Skjei is hugely overpaid for a marginal #5.

6 janv. 2021 à 20 h 37

justaBoss

Démarrer sujet

What in tarnation

Rejoint: oct. 2017

Messages: 32,709

Mentions "j'aime": 31,449

Quoting: Windjammer

Niederrieter is a cap dump and Skjei is hugely overpaid for a marginal #5.

Not denying both are tad overpaid, but neither is a cap dump.

6 janv. 2021 à 20 h 39

spockrock

Rejoint: août 2020

Messages: 1,513

Mentions "j'aime": 531

Quoting: justaBoss

No crap those players won’t be enough. CAR won’t deal Pesce. They might deal Necas, but would have to send Skjei or Gardiner for cap purposes. There’s not a match here without WPG coming off their price.

6 janv. 2021 à 20 h 51

#10

Radu47

Vegan Commie Hipster

Rejoint: oct. 2020

Messages: 7,888

Mentions "j'aime": 3,256

Quoting: jgimp69

Zero interest in anything other than Necas and the 1st

Ah yes a team with an awful d core certainly wouldn't want a good youngish established defender 🙄

6 janv. 2021 à 20 h 53

#11

Radu47

Vegan Commie Hipster

Rejoint: oct. 2020

Messages: 7,888

Mentions "j'aime": 3,256

Sometimes it feels like the more reasonable the proposals are here the harsher the replies

You did a very nice job calibrating the trade on every level and it's definitely an interesting proposal

Why are replies often so brusque and frankly myopic, noone takes time to consider AGMs fully

justaBoss a aimé ceci.

6 janv. 2021 à 20 h 55

#12

Radu47

Vegan Commie Hipster

Rejoint: oct. 2020

Messages: 7,888

Mentions "j'aime": 3,256

An underrated nuance here is a small market limited money franchise potentially choosing to pay 5M$ a year to a useful active player than 5M$ inactive

justaBoss a aimé ceci.

6 janv. 2021 à 20 h 59

#13

Windjammer

Rejoint: juill. 2020

Messages: 15,684

Mentions "j'aime": 6,958

Quoting: justaBoss

Not denying both are tad overpaid, but neither is a cap dump.

In addition to Niederreiter being a true cap dump, every single Jet fan has said Winnipeg has less than zero interest in Skjei. He isn't a "tad overpaid" he is monstrously overpaid for a bottom pairing guy. If you want to add Skjei to dump his salary you would need to heavily compensate the team getting stuck with him.

arafay a aimé ceci.

6 janv. 2021 à 21 h 7

#14

arafay

Rejoint: mars 2018

Messages: 7,318

Mentions "j'aime": 2,384

Quoting: Radu47

Ah yes a team with an awful d core certainly wouldn't want a good youngish established defender 🙄

Quoting: justaBoss

why

First of all, that d-core won’t be awful long term. The jets have 2 high end prospects coming in Samberg and heinola (2021-2022) who should both be established in the nhl by next season. They then have more good prospects coming up in gawanke, chisholm, and dare I say lundmark (starting to look like a decent pick). The problem with the jets d-core (at least on the left side) isn’t long term, it’s just this year.

As for the right side, we need a big right shot d-man long term to play with JoMo. That’s the only long term need that the jets have. So unless we get that back for laine, we are keeping him for the time being

The reason that we don’t want skjei is that he’s on a long contract in which is overpaid (not by a huge amount but still quite a bit). Additionally, he would be blocking off guys like heinola and Samberg who will be ready for a top 4 role in the near future.

Don’t really want neiderider at the cap tbh. Better players available for cheaper with a flat cap nowadays.

Keane is meh. Throw him in or not, don’t care.

Therefore, just leaves necas and the first. Not worth parting with laine

Windjammer a aimé ceci.

6 janv. 2021 à 21 h 11

#15

Windjammer

Rejoint: juill. 2020

Messages: 15,684

Mentions "j'aime": 6,958

Quoting: arafay

First of all, that d-core won’t be awful long term. The jets have 2 high end prospects coming in Samberg and heinola who should both be established in the nhl by next season. They then have more good prospects coming up in gawanke, chisholm, and dare I say lundmark (starting to look like a decent pick). The problem with the jets d-core (at least on the left side) isn’t long term, it’s just this year.

As for the right side, we need a big right shot d-man long term to play with JoMo. That’s the only long term need that the jets have. So unless we get that back for laine, we are keeping him for the time being

The funniest thing about that guys response is thinking that adding another bad defenseman that is overpaid is going to help.

arafay a aimé ceci.

6 janv. 2021 à 21 h 13

#16

arafay

Rejoint: mars 2018

Messages: 7,318

Mentions "j'aime": 2,384

Quoting: Windjammer

The funniest thing about that guys response is thinking that adding another bad defenseman that is overpaid is going to help.

I think skjei would definitely help, but it’s not a piece I want back for laine. Honestly don’t want him in general since he isn’t a fit past this year, but regardless. If skjei had a year left, I’d be willing to do Roslovic for him tbh. Skjei is a decent number 4 imo

justaBoss a aimé ceci.

6 janv. 2021 à 21 h 33

#17

Birtle34

Bandwagon fairweathe

Rejoint: juin 2018

Messages: 7,573

Mentions "j'aime": 3,246

Would like fleury/geekie involved in any deals, end of the day team control is needed in any returns for jets. Jets have a couple immediate holes in depth up the middle or top 4 depth if there’s any injuries, not much behind. Got to watch the expansion protection list also.

6 janv. 2021 à 22 h 26

#18

jgimp69

Jet69

Rejoint: janv. 2018

Messages: 2,595

Mentions "j'aime": 1,142

Quoting: Radu47

Ah yes a team with an awful d core certainly wouldn't want a good youngish established defender 🙄

We have Samberg and Heinola breathing down BooLoo and Forberts necks cracking the lineup. Heinola is a stud and Samberg will be a great shut down defender. We don’t have room for a LHD locked up that long. 🙄 🤷‍♂️

arafay a aimé ceci.

6 janv. 2021 à 22 h 37

#19

justaBoss

Démarrer sujet

What in tarnation

Rejoint: oct. 2017

Messages: 32,709

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Quoting: Radu47

Thanks for the nice feedback.

The harsh replies have been a problem of the site since day one I've been here - the more nuances of an AGM post you think of, the more problems the less intelligent folk here get to point out.

6 janv. 2021 à 22 h 45

#20

justaBoss

Démarrer sujet

What in tarnation

Rejoint: oct. 2017

Messages: 32,709

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Quoting: arafay

Don’t really want neiderider at the cap tbh. Better players available for cheaper with a flat cap nowadays.

Keane is meh. Throw him in or not, don’t care.

Would like to add though that Niederreiter has only two years left and would slot nicely into your 2nd line for that timespan. Monetarily there's no obstacles to this, and well he's a decent two-way player and statistically very stable guy.

Also Keane did score almost 40 points in AHL last year, which is a respectable amount imo. I think he could very well make it to your roster in short span of time. Also he's an RHD as well, so the need should fit your needs, but once again I'm more or less speculating here...

6 janv. 2021 à 22 h 49

#21

justaBoss

Démarrer sujet

What in tarnation

Rejoint: oct. 2017

Messages: 32,709

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Quoting: Birtle34

I'm in for both. Added Skjei as he's monetarily the best option for Canes, but Fleury is fine as well. Just think Jets would need to take some other long-term asset as well, because, well, Canes can't trade for Laine if they don't clear bit of a space for him.

Birtle34 a aimé ceci.

6 janv. 2021 à 22 h 50

#22

justaBoss

Démarrer sujet

What in tarnation

Rejoint: oct. 2017

Messages: 32,709

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Quoting: jgimp69

Just throwing an idea: make Heinola a RD and use pairings such as Morrissey-Heinola, Skjei-Pionk and Samberg-Demelo long-term.

6 janv. 2021 à 23 h 41

#23

Windjammer

Rejoint: juill. 2020

Messages: 15,684

Mentions "j'aime": 6,958

Quoting: justaBoss

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh, but when you see the same names proposed over and over, say no to them, and see the same names again 5 minutes later it gets a bit tiring. As I said Niederrieter is a winger that we don't want or need and is overpaid for what he brings. I'd rather keep Roslovic than take NN. Most people that I've seen here think of NN as a cap dump.

Some may see Skjei as more, but I see him as an expensive #5. Even if he is a 4, he is an LD as I said and not needed after next year. Keane is further away then Niku is from being a regular.

So, this trade just amounts to one good player, an older downgrade that serves no need, a expensive stopgap and a defenseman further away from being a regular than we are giving up. Plus a first.

How is that enticing for a 22 year old first line winger a decent young bottom sixer that can play center and an okay young defenseman? I just can't see what you think Winnipeg would like about it.

arafay a aimé ceci.

7 janv. 2021 à 0 h 3

#24

justaBoss

Démarrer sujet

What in tarnation

Rejoint: oct. 2017

Messages: 32,709

Mentions "j'aime": 31,449

Quoting: Windjammer

Well let me show how I played with this thought:

As it was rumored, the trade originally goes like:

Laine = Necas + Pesce

Pesce is not accessible, so replace the guy with some assets

Laine = Necas + Skjei + Keane + 1st

Seems too much from Canes end now, imo. so let's add somethng else to the pile, also to make the money work as well. Roslovic makes sense as he has requested a trade, and Niku seems to be the odd man out.

Roslovic + Niku = Niederreiter

Now thinking the argument of Jets not being able to take this much actual salary once, so let's add Little to the pile.

If you guys use Heinola, as I suggested, as a RD, the point of Skjei not being needed is moot. As a 2nd pair LD he works just fine.

I disagree with the notion of Niederreiter being a downgrade. And I disagree even more with there being no need for the guy. I think WPG has a clear slot for the guy, in 2021 it'll be as a 2nd line winger and in 2022 it'll be a 3rd liner, and then he's UFA and you don't have to deal with him anymore, unless you guys re-sign him, and if he plays well why shouldn't WPG entertain the possibility?

I myself believe there is lot for the Jets to like here. But you have the right to disagree with me.

7 janv. 2021 à 0 h 19

#25

arafay

Rejoint: mars 2018

Messages: 7,318

Mentions "j'aime": 2,384

Modifié 7 janv. 2021 à 0 h 25

Quoting: justaBoss

THANK YOU. At least one Jets fan here who doesn't completely disregard Skjei as a player. He's overpaid, but easily a TOP4 D with some value. But I get the notion of not wanting the guy with the amount of LD prospects they currently have. Still think though that WPG could entertain the possibility of using Heinola as Morrissey's RD and Skjei as the 2nd pair LD with Pionk. Think they both would fit these roles, but I'm just speculating here.

Would like to add though that Niederreiter has only two years left and would slot nicely into your 2nd line for that timespan. Monetarily there's no obstacles to this, and well he's a decent two-way player and statistically very stable guy.

Also Keane did score almost 40 points in AHL last year, which is a respectable amount imo. I think he could very well make it to your roster in short span of time. Also he's an RHD as well, so the need should fit your needs, but once again I'm more or less speculating here...

The style of game heinola plays, I’d rather have him at his natural position. Also, I’m personally strongly against playing players on their offside unless they’ve played the majority of their careers there. Also don’t want to add another left shot s-man long term in general.

I like niederreiter don’t get me wrong. I just wouldn’t like to spend that money there tbh. Just not worth that price tag to the jets. Even without laine, then ets would have asking top 6 where they can easily play a middle six player in the top 6 and be fine (like harkins for example). Just saying the money is better spent elsewhere

The jets needs aren’t just any rd prospect. We want a big rd prospect with offensive capabilities. Keane is very much like gawanke except gawanke is much more aggressive as a player. Just not what we are looking for.

Your probably going to think I’m picky but the jets needs are very specific. The only need they have long term is a big top 4 rd. Their needs right now is a big top 4 rd, a big top 4 ld, and a better 4c (personal preference there but I’d like an upgrade over thompson).

I’m a couple of years, this is how I see the jets d-core:

JoMo-big rd (thinking a severson or Pulock here)
Samberg/heinola-pionk
Heinola/Samberg-niku (really want niku to be a lifelong jet)
And move demelo

If heinola moves to his off-side then:
JoMo-pionk
Samberg-heinola
Niku-demelo

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