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Edmonton Oilers signed Ethan Bear (2 Years / $2,000,000 AAV)

Was this a good signing?
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29 déc 2020 à 15 h 33
#26
Banni
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Quoting: oilsince95
Drew Doughty was signed years ago my man


I forgot, 2 Gold Medals, 2 Stanley Cups, 1 Norris(should have 3) all the signs of an overrated defenseman.
OldNYIfan et jpsnow13 a aimé ceci.
29 déc 2020 à 15 h 58
#27
oilsince95
Rejoint: jun 2016
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Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
I forgot, 2 Gold Medals, 2 Stanley Cups, 1 Norris(should have 3) all the signs of an overrated defenseman.


Oh, Doughty has done well. Don't get me wrong. Top 3 dman in the league through the 2010-2017 years! But you decided to make this conversation about a young dman who finished 10th in Calder trophy voting being overrated for signing a 2 mil per 2 year deal. So here we are, talking about overrated dmen due to the types of contracts Dmen signed at a certain point in their careers.

Doughty started being paid 11 million last season, already 2 years removed from his last Norris nomination. All those things you listed to legitimize his current abilities happened 5 or more years ago. He used to be fantastic. Right now, at 11 million, I think a lot of people keep insisting on putting him in their Norris trophy conversation lists by default and due to that wild cap hit. He's not, and in my eyes he's slipped well out of the top 20 dmen. Once a player is into their 30's, pretty hard to turn that train around. Good luck having him getting even a sniff of a cup or a Norris over the full course of that behemoth contract on this Kings squad.

Now, we can all agree to stop underrating or overrating players based on their cap hits, and only rate them on their raw talent. In a fantasy world, that would be great. But the cap league makes it hard to avoid considering cap hits, and I find media lists of top players often default to top contracts meaning a player is still at top ability. Of course Doughty is still a good Dman. But At 11 mil he is still trumpeted as some perennial Norris candidate gamechanger. He's not, and he never will be again. Gotta get used to it.
imawesome et oilersguy a aimé ceci.
29 déc 2020 à 16 h 02
#28
oilsince95
Rejoint: jun 2016
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Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
There isn't a team in the NHL that is in better shape long term cap-wise than the Kings, the 11M won't be an issue. I appreciate your concern. None of us Kings fans are worried about thatwink


You're fine for a while. You'd be surprised how bad it might look in 4 years when you need to sign Byfield, Turcotte, Vilardi, Kaliyev, Bjornfot etc if they all turn out as you hope.
29 déc 2020 à 16 h 04
#29
bhavikp27
Rejoint: jun 2016
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Quoting: HelmutCool
I personally dont understand all the crap Doughty keeps getting. He got 35 points in a shortened season last season. He has never been a "profilic offensive defenseman". And to be honest: bloody superman couldnt have carried the Kings last year.

I would still take Doughy over Karlsson or Burns each day of the week.

Sure the numbers are hefty, but that 11M was about right in that year for him and his contribution. Who honestly thinks ANY of those 11M contracts are gonna look good on the last couple of years??? (McDavid perhaps excluded)


Points are great but they are not everything. Aside from PP, Doughty has been really bad defensively at even strength and on the PK for the past two seasons. Sure, it has to with the Kings being a bottom-feeder but still, individually, he hasn't played well.

"I would still take Doughy over Karlsson or Burns each day of the week" That's your opinion

And for the contract, nobody who knows NHL hockey will think it's a good deal.
29 déc 2020 à 16 h 18
#30
Banni
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Quoting: oilsince95
Oh, Doughty has done well. Don't get me wrong. Top 3 dman in the league through the 2010-2017 years! But you decided to make this conversation about a young dman who finished 10th in Calder trophy voting being overrated for signing a 2 mil per 2 year deal. So here we are, talking about overrated dmen due to the types of contracts Dmen signed at a certain point in their careers.

Doughty started being paid 11 million last season, already 2 years removed from his last Norris nomination. All those things you listed to legitimize his current abilities happened 5 or more years ago. He used to be fantastic. Right now, at 11 million, I think a lot of people keep insisting on putting him in their Norris trophy conversation lists by default and due to that wild cap hit. He's not, and in my eyes he's slipped well out of the top 20 dmen. Once a player is into their 30's, pretty hard to turn that train around. Good luck having him getting even a sniff of a cup or a Norris over the full course of that behemoth contract on this Kings squad.

Now, we can all agree to stop underrating or overrating players based on their cap hits, and only rate them on their raw talent. In a fantasy world, that would be great. But the cap league makes it hard to avoid considering cap hits, and I find media lists of top players often default to top contracts meaning a player is still at top ability. Of course Doughty is still a good Dman. But At 11 mil he is still trumpeted as some perennial Norris candidate gamechanger. He's not, and he never will be again. Gotta get used to it.


He got 60 points the year he signed his contract.
29 déc 2020 à 16 h 20
#31
Banni
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Quoting: oilsince95
You're fine for a while. You'd be surprised how bad it might look in 4 years when you need to sign Byfield, Turcotte, Vilardi, Kaliyev, Bjornfot etc if they all turn out as you hope.


LA has never had to worry about greedy players and our players are typically willing to sign team friendly deals.
29 déc 2020 à 16 h 21
#32
Banni
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Quoting: bhavikp27
Points are great but they are not everything. Aside from PP, Doughty has been really bad defensively at even strength and on the PK for the past two seasons. Sure, it has to with the Kings being a bottom-feeder but still, individually, he hasn't played well.

"I would still take Doughy over Karlsson or Burns each day of the week" That's your opinion

And for the contract, nobody who knows NHL hockey will think it's a good deal.


Here we go again, the Boston guy who thinks he knows how Doughty plays every game lol
29 déc 2020 à 16 h 33
#33
oilsince95
Rejoint: jun 2016
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Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
LA has never had to worry about greedy players and our players are typically willing to sign team friendly deals.


So like Kopitar and Doughty's team friendly 21 mil combined?
bhavikp27 et rollie1967 a aimé ceci.
29 déc 2020 à 16 h 39
#34
oilsince95
Rejoint: jun 2016
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Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
He got 60 points the year he signed his contract.


He sure did the year before he signed it. But it was prospective. 2019-20 was the first season of it actually applying after his prior contract to bump him up to being paid 11 mil. He had his 60 points two seasons earlier in 2017-18. Good on Doughty to convince LA to sign him summer 2018, but the contract didn't start applying until his 30 year old season.
29 déc 2020 à 17 h 49
#35
Rejoint: aoû 2020
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Quoting: oilsince95
Oh, Doughty has done well. Don't get me wrong. Top 3 dman in the league through the 2010-2017 years! But you decided to make this conversation about a young dman who finished 10th in Calder trophy voting being overrated for signing a 2 mil per 2 year deal. So here we are, talking about overrated dmen due to the types of contracts Dmen signed at a certain point in their careers.

Doughty started being paid 11 million last season, already 2 years removed from his last Norris nomination. All those things you listed to legitimize his current abilities happened 5 or more years ago. He used to be fantastic. Right now, at 11 million, I think a lot of people keep insisting on putting him in their Norris trophy conversation lists by default and due to that wild cap hit. He's not, and in my eyes he's slipped well out of the top 20 dmen. Once a player is into their 30's, pretty hard to turn that train around. Good luck having him getting even a sniff of a cup or a Norris over the full course of that behemoth contract on this Kings squad.

Now, we can all agree to stop underrating or overrating players based on their cap hits, and only rate them on their raw talent. In a fantasy world, that would be great. But the cap league makes it hard to avoid considering cap hits, and I find media lists of top players often default to top contracts meaning a player is still at top ability. Of course Doughty is still a good Dman. But At 11 mil he is still trumpeted as some perennial Norris candidate gamechanger. He's not, and he never will be again. Gotta get used to it.

The thing about Doughty’s contract is that he negotiated it himself, so it’s not buyout protected. I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets bought out at some point, likely with a year or two left.
oilsince95 a aimé ceci.
29 déc 2020 à 18 h 10
#36
Banni
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Quoting: oilsince95
He sure did the year before he signed it. But it was prospective. 2019-20 was the first season of it actually applying after his prior contract to bump him up to being paid 11 mil. He had his 60 points two seasons earlier in 2017-18. Good on Doughty to convince LA to sign him summer 2018, but the contract didn't start applying until his 30 year old season.


He signed the deal before the start of his last remaining year of his 7Mx8 team friendly contract
29 déc 2020 à 18 h 11
#37
Banni
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Quoting: oilsince95
So like Kopitar and Doughty's team friendly 21 mil combined?


Kopitar has always been better than Toews and signed for less. Both Doughty and Kopitar were on team friendly deals before they signed their current contract.
29 déc 2020 à 22 h 21
#38
Rejoint: déc 2017
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Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
It doesn't matter, most older players paid a huge amount of money are injury prone. Doughty is never injured and has accomplished more than any of them.


Getzlaf, Kesler, EK, Parise, Eriksson, Subban, Vlasic, & Weber just to name a few. All disastrous contracts, or in Weber's case, will be in a couple years when his cap hit is still almost $8M and he's almost 40 y.o.
29 déc 2020 à 22 h 22
#39
Rejoint: déc 2017
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Quoting: oilsince95
You're fine for a while. You'd be surprised how bad it might look in 4 years when you need to sign Byfield, Turcotte, Vilardi, Kaliyev, Bjornfot etc if they all turn out as you hope.


That's called a high class problem, lol.
30 déc 2020 à 0 h 08
#40
imawesome
Rejoint: jun 2018
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Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
Florida has no state tax, LA has ALOT. If Florida had state tax it'd be a 10M contract at least. Use some common sense.


The tax isn't that high. He just got signed to a good contract. It happens
30 déc 2020 à 1 h 45
#41
Rejoint: déc 2017
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Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
Yeah here's the thing, with the emergence of Byfield, Vilardi, Turcotte, Kaliyev the Kings will have more offense than they've ever had since the Gretzky days. Doughty will put up more points than he has before. When the Kings were good, they played a very defensive system under Darryl Sutter.

Before Sutter, Doughty put up 59 points in his 2nd NHL season. After Sutter, Doughty got 60 points. All while maintaining great defense. He should have won the Norris both those years.


Is DD HOF?
30 déc 2020 à 7 h 01
#42
Banni
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Quoting: Brian2016
Getzlaf, Kesler, EK, Parise, Eriksson, Subban, Vlasic, & Weber just to name a few. All disastrous contracts, or in Weber's case, will be in a couple years when his cap hit is still almost $8M and he's almost 40 y.o.


Doughty isn't even in their class lol and they're all injury prone, Doughty is not.
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
30 déc 2020 à 7 h 01
#43
Banni
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Quoting: Brian2016
Is DD HOF?


Obviously
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
30 déc 2020 à 7 h 10
#44
Rejoint: mai 2015
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Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
It doesn't matter, most older players paid a huge amount of money are injury prone. Doughty is never injured and has accomplished more than any of them.


Nobody beats father time.

He may defy aging curves and stay productive longer, but the vast majority of players primes are about 24-27, some pushing it to 31 or 32.

The most likely situation is his prime days are behind him and he's being paid like a top 3 defenseman in the NHL. Whether he's injured or not that is not ideal
30 déc 2020 à 7 h 46
#45
Rejoint: déc 2017
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Quoting: ZiggyPalffy
Doughty isn't even in their class lol and they're all injury prone, Doughty is not.


That's my point. All injury prone. All signed bad contracts. I have no issue with Doughty contract in terms of dollar amount. One can argue that the Kings should've let him walk b/c of the rebuild, but he's not bad value, imo.
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
30 déc 2020 à 15 h 06
#46
GM67
Rejoint: jui 2015
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Very Solid Signing and everything from term to Cap is right on.
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
 
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