Forums/Armchair-GM

for mitch marner elite how much would a fair marner deal actually help TO

Créé par: mhockey91
Date de création initiale: déc 20, 2020
Publié: 20 déc 2020 à 17 h 27
Équipe: 2020-21 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
CRÉÉANSCAP HIT
Marner, Mitch59 250 000 $
Rachats de contrats
  • Mikhail Grabovski: 0 $
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Phil Kessel: 1 200 000 $ (15%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2023
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2381 500 000 $81 318 408 $0 $0 $181 592 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
TOR
Hyman, Zach
2 250 000 $
AG, AD
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Matthews, Auston
11 640 250 $
C
UFA - 4
TOR
Nylander, William
6 962 366 $
AD, AG
UFA - 4
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
1 645 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
11 000 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 5
Marner, Mitch
9 250 000 $
TOR
Robertson, Nicholas
821 667 $
AG
RFA - 3
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
3 500 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 3
TOR
Simmonds, Wayne
1 500 000 $
AD, AG
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Vesey, Jimmy
900 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
TOR
Thornton, Joe
700 000 $
C, AG
NMC
UFA - 1
TOR
Spezza, Jason
700 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
5 000 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Brodie, TJ
5 000 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 4
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
5 000 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
5 625 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 4
TOR
Holl, Justin
2 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 3
TOR
Campbell, Jack
1 650 000 $
G
UFA - 2
TOR
Dermott, Travis
874 125 $
DG
RFA - 1
TOR
Lehtonen, Mikko
925 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
TOR
Engvall, Pierre
1 250 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 2
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
10 903 000 $
AD
UFA - 5
TOR
Barabanov, Alexander
925 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
TOR
Bogosian, Zach
1 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 1

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20 déc 2020 à 20 h 26
#26
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Quoting: mhockey91
Hometown premium is such a good way to put it. I get tavares because he was a UFA, and leafs offered less than isles, but in Marners case, he’s from TO, was drafted by TO, you’d think he’d take a more fair contract to play in Toronto. Usually you see hometown discounts but this was the exact opposite of that


Yea poor teams or teams with poor "locations" might have to pay premium. But Marner is a Toronto boy, Nylander got to play a with Matthews, and Matthews could have showcased his talents for 5 more years with a good, maybe a very good team before he leaves as UFA. Hey I don't blame the players for extracting as much money as they can, but the team is weaker because of their contracts. Probably the big three will be long term unhappier as they are spending the prime of their careers with little chance of winning a Cup, heck not even going to a Cup Final. They will probably die 70 years from now will ten of millions of dollars in assets. Gee taking less money might have made them happier.
mhockey91 a aimé ceci.
20 déc 2020 à 20 h 28
#27
Rejoint: sep 2020
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Quoting: palhal
Yea poor teams or teams with poor "locations" might have to pay premium. But Marner is a Toronto boy, Nylander got to play a with Matthews, and Matthews could have showcased his talents for 5 more years with a good, maybe a very good team before he leaves as UFA. Hey I don't blame the players for extracting as much money as they can, but the team is weaker because of their contracts. Probably the big three will be long term unhappier as they are spending the prime of their careers with little chance of winning a Cup, heck not even going to a Cup Final. They will probably die 70 years from now will ten of millions of dollars in assets. Gee taking less money might have made them happier.


I know some people like nylander but Dubai really should've just dealt him in the standoff. I really think the long drawn out standoff made him panic to get it figured out wit marner and Matthews asap.
mhockey91 et palhal a aimé ceci.
20 déc 2020 à 21 h 11
#28
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Quoting: mhockey91
It was the whole situation. You can’t even sit here with a straight face and tell me Dubas handled that properly. If he would’ve sent the message to the team and traded nylander for a haul, Matthew’s and Marner definitely would’ve signed better deals. Or on the flip side, if Nylander wasn’t being so greedy at the time, Matthew’s and marner would’ve been signed to better deals as well.

Nylander/Dubas situation set the precedent that in a staring contest, Dubas will lose. The agents fully took advantage of that and exploited him. There is a reason why marner is overpaid and Matthew’s term is too short


He won on the Nylander deal. It's obvious at this point but people will say whatever they want to justify the hate the spew at the Leafs. All the deals are fine, star players are worth what they make. Paying mid range guys too much kills your cap. Dubas doesn't do that.
20 déc 2020 à 21 h 22
#29
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
He won on the Nylander deal. It's obvious at this point but people will say whatever they want to justify the hate the spew at the Leafs. All the deals are fine, star players are worth what they make. Paying mid range guys too much kills your cap. Dubas doesn't do that.



He didn’t win on the nylander deal because he set the stage for future negotiations. Maybe nylanders contract is fine, but the whole situation was poorly handled. You see guys like Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Hedman, kucherov, mackinnon (who announced he will take one), all taking team friendly deals to win a cup. Why couldn’t Marner? Also don’t even bother with the tax BS in Florida because it’s not even true. I’ll just debunk that before you even mention it. The fact is, leafs overpaid their stars and it’s gonna hurt them in the future. Having 3 guys make combined $33+ million isn’t sustainable, especially considering Reilly is up in 2 years, and Freddy in one year... wonder what they’ll ask for... the stage is set for overpays


https://twitter.com/walsha/status/1307480088800182272?s=21
20 déc 2020 à 21 h 43
#30
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 507
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
This guy has wisdom, tell us all about how Vesey is better than Tavares please.


Its about grit, clutch performance, and leadership. Jimmy Vesey has all of those. Tavares is the easter island statue personified. But he cost 11 million a year
20 déc 2020 à 21 h 44
#31
Rejoint: sep 2020
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
He won on the Nylander deal. It's obvious at this point but people will say whatever they want to justify the hate the spew at the Leafs. All the deals are fine, star players are worth what they make. Paying mid range guys too much kills your cap. Dubas doesn't do that.


Like I've said, it's fine to give large deals, but you better get the term so the deal age well(covid aside) mcdavid took 12.5 but for 8 years, the way the cap was going that was going to age just fine, same with draisaitl. Leafs paid premium for 5 and 6 years deals. It's just bad business because by the time those start to be decent deals they're either expiring or about to.
mhockey91 a aimé ceci.
20 déc 2020 à 21 h 50
#32
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Quoting: Theozler
Like I've said, it's fine to give large deals, but you better get the term so the deal age well(covid aside) mcdavid took 12.5 but for 8 years, the way the cap was going that was going to age just fine, same with draisaitl. Leafs paid premium for 5 and 6 years deals. It's just bad business because by the time those start to be decent deals they're either expiring or about to.


Doesn't matter, the Leafs don't have any handcuffing bad deals like the Lucic's of the world. That is what kills the cap, not superstars making big money.
20 déc 2020 à 21 h 51
#33
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Quoting: LGR
Its about grit, clutch performance, and leadership. Jimmy Vesey has all of those. Tavares is the easter island statue personified. But he cost 11 million a year


For the people who don't get it, give us an in-depth breakdown with supporting evidence. We wouldn't want people to think you are just a really pointless troll.
20 déc 2020 à 21 h 53
#34
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
For the people who don't get it, give us an in-depth breakdown with supporting evidence. We wouldn't want people to think you are just a really pointless troll.


I mean saying vesey is better than tavares is trolling...
20 déc 2020 à 21 h 58
#35
Pens were the best
Rejoint: sep 2019
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Quoting: Saskleaf
Can you please explain how this team is any different? It's literally the same team with 2 more healthy scratches, which aren't even that necessary with the taxi squads this year.


Yeah it’s basically the same team but at least they have enough space to resign Andersen in 2021.

Quoting: palhal
Carolina's Aho and Marner contracts came up at the same time. For the two previous years they had identical stats. Aho signed for 8.45m X 5 years, Marner 10.693 for 6 years. Based on Aho contract if the Marner had signed a comparable contract for six years, 9m would have been appropriate. I'll never understand why the Leafs handed out "hometown premium contracts to their big three, 4.5m too much.


Quoting: mhockey91
Hometown premium is such a good way to put it. I get tavares because he was a UFA, and leafs offered less than isles, but in Marners case, he’s from TO, was drafted by TO, you’d think he’d take a more fair contract to play in Toronto. Usually you see hometown discounts but this was the exact opposite of that


TBH, Marner and his camp did not take advantage of what could’ve been a really good situation. If he settled for 9 million dollars, he would’ve been loved by all the fans & considered a hometown hero. But since he squeezed the GM for every last penny, he put himself in a really toxic environment in which the fans make him the scapegoat & there is a lot more unnecessary pressure. You can tell that he’s lost all his confidence by watching him play, he’s extremely disengaged & makes lots of mental mistakes.
mhockey91 et Saskleaf a aimé ceci.
20 déc 2020 à 22 h 10
#36
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Quoting: mhockey91
I mean saying vesey is better than tavares is trolling...


Obviously lol
mhockey91 a aimé ceci.
20 déc 2020 à 22 h 19
#37
Leafs and Jets
Rejoint: avr 2020
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Quoting: mhockey91
Same team, but better set up for the long term with a cheaper marner deal. Also can someone please explain taxi squad to me because I keep seeing people post teams with that. Does that basically mean a team can carry up to 5 extra guys or whatever that don’t count against the salary cap?


Hmm, it does help them, yes, but really not as much as people think, that's my point.

Yes, that's what a taxi squad is.
mhockey91 a aimé ceci.
20 déc 2020 à 22 h 23
#38
backcheck>paycheck
Rejoint: oct 2020
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
@mhockey91 Honestly, this team looks solid on paper. Elite offence, the top 4 defence is statistically very good. If Marner bounces back to his 2018/19 form, I think they could be the best possession driving team in the NHL.


If Marner bounces back? he was on pace for 94 points again this past season...
20 déc 2020 à 22 h 34
#39
backcheck>paycheck
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The reality is, we can argue about these contracts, and fantasize about how nice it would have been if the kids were all making under 7 mil on a 4 or 5 year deal, but it didn't happen. The silver lining is, the Leafs have no Johnsons, no Mathesons, no Komarovs and no Backes'. Despite these contracts not being ideal for the team, otherwise, Dubas and friends have managed the cap very well thus far.

Personally, I see the current Leafs team a lot like the Duchene-era Avs... loads of talent, but still kind of a bubble team that just can't get over the hump. I expect them to take a step back for a year or two after this year to retool and give some ice time to prospects to fill out the bottom 6, and then compete for a cup a few seasons from now when the kids are all in their prime and the cap has(hopefully) gone up a little bit. The big 3 are still very young. Imagine how good they'll be in 3 years.
mhockey91 a aimé ceci.
20 déc 2020 à 22 h 37
#40
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Modifié 20 déc 2020 à 22 h 46
Quoting: DartGuy86
The reality is, we can argue about these contracts, and fantasize about how nice it would have been if the kids were all making under 7 mil on a 4 or 5 year deal, but it didn't happen. The silver lining is, the Leafs have no Johnsons, no Mathesons, no Komarovs and no Backes'. Despite these contracts not being ideal for the team, otherwise, Dubas and friends have managed the cap very well thus far.

Personally, I see the current Leafs team a lot like the Duchene-era Avs... loads of talent, but still kind of a bubble team that just can't get over the hump. I expect them to take a step back for a year or two after this year to retool and give some ice time to prospects to fill out the bottom 6, and then compete for a cup a few seasons from now when the kids are all in their prime and the cap has(hopefully) gone up a little bit. The big 3 are still very young. Imagine how good they'll be in 3 years.


The issue is that this isn't basketball, just have stars wins you nothing, you could have 7 players making ten million that were worth those contrac and you'd get wrecked.
mhockey91 a aimé ceci.
20 déc 2020 à 23 h 11
#41
Rejoint: fév 2020
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Yeah it’s basically the same team but at least they have enough space to resign Andersen in 2021.

TBH, Marner and his camp did not take advantage of what could’ve been a really good situation. If he settled for 9 million dollars, he would’ve been loved by all the fans & considered a hometown hero. But since he squeezed the GM for every last penny, he put himself in a really toxic environment in which the fans make him the scapegoat & there is a lot more unnecessary pressure. You can tell that he’s lost all his confidence by watching him play, he’s extremely disengaged & makes lots of mental mistakes.


How can you say that Marner and his camp did not take advantage of what could have been a really good situation when they negioated a fair market deal that both Marner and the Leafs agreed to on the date the contract was signed........looks like a great deal for both sides and Leafs signed a potential 100 point player and fan favourite in Toronto for the long-term.

I think I totally disagree with your comments about Marner as a hockey player........Marner is everything that is right about being an NHL hockey player, is a popular teammate and tremendous role model for hockey fans and especially younger hockey fans and a lot of less fortunate people in this world who he helps through alot of charitable causes.

When he puts up a 100 points in a 82 games schedule you will be saying what a great deal the Leafs made by signing him.
21 déc 2020 à 0 h 02
#42
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Quoting: TML_Tika
How can you say that Marner and his camp did not take advantage of what could have been a really good situation when they negioated a fair market deal that both Marner and the Leafs agreed to on the date the contract was signed........looks like a great deal for both sides and Leafs signed a potential 100 point player and fan favourite in Toronto for the long-term.

I think I totally disagree with your comments about Marner as a hockey player........Marner is everything that is right about being an NHL hockey player, is a popular teammate and tremendous role model for hockey fans and especially younger hockey fans and a lot of less fortunate people in this world who he helps through alot of charitable causes.

When he puts up a 100 points in a 82 games schedule you will be saying what a great deal the Leafs made by signing him.



With NHL scoring rising compared to what it was a few seasons ago, 100 points isn’t nearly impressive as it was. Marner would put up 65-85 points in the 2010-2016 NHL (depending on the year).

He’s a good player, but there is no doubt that he’s overpaid. Even leafs fans say he is. That really isn’t debatable. No one is debating that’s he’s a good person or even teammate, he’s just overpaid.

https://editorinleaf.com/2019/09/14/toronto-maple-leafs-pverpaid/amp/
21 déc 2020 à 0 h 44
#43
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Quoting: mhockey91
With NHL scoring rising compared to what it was a few seasons ago, 100 points isn’t nearly impressive as it was. Marner would put up 65-85 points in the 2010-2016 NHL (depending on the year).

He’s a good player, but there is no doubt that he’s overpaid. Even leafs fans say he is. That really isn’t debatable. No one is debating that’s he’s a good person or even teammate, he’s just overpaid.

https://editorinleaf.com/2019/09/14/toronto-maple-leafs-pverpaid/amp/


Agree with your points.......to be honest it is hard to tell if a player is really over-paid after only a few years into a contract....the bottom line is that the cream always rises to the top.....and I still have my money on Marner..........When the Leafs win the cup and Marner is major contributor....no one is going to care if he was over-paid.
mhockey91 a aimé ceci.
21 déc 2020 à 8 h 14
#44
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Quoting: TML_Tika
Agree with your points.......to be honest it is hard to tell if a player is really over-paid after only a few years into a contract....the bottom line is that the cream always rises to the top.....and I still have my money on Marner..........When the Leafs win the cup and Marner is major contributor....no one is going to care if he was over-paid.


That is true. If leafs win a cup over the course of marners contract and he plays a major role, no one is gonna doubt the value of the contract and all the criticism will be washed aside. On the flip side, if they don’t win a cup over the next 5 years, and marner either struggles in big games or their depth isn’t great, then that’s a different story
21 déc 2020 à 8 h 47
#45
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Quoting: Theozler
I know some people like nylander but Dubai really should've just dealt him in the standoff. I really think the long drawn out standoff made him panic to get it figured out wit marner and Matthews asap.


Quoting: Theozler
I know some people like nylander but Dubai really should've just dealt him in the standoff. I really think the long drawn out standoff made him panic to get it figured out wit marner and Matthews asap.


Just to continue your thought. When Nylander was signed, Leafs were in first place and 120 point pace. So they signed him, lost Leivo, and played worse with a poor Nylander.. Dubas as GM should get the some blame, but geez the Leafs have probably the most expensive management team in the league. Where was Shanahan and his time in all the Leafs negotiations? Getting back to Nylander. Larkin of Wings signed a 6.1 X 5 deal, and Pasternak signed a 6.67m X 6. Those were the comparables. Nylander should have been signed at 6.5 X 6 or traded, or just not signed. You're right, it set the stage for Matthews and Marner to bully the Leafs in negotiations.
mhockey91 a aimé ceci.
21 déc 2020 à 11 h 30
#46
Pens were the best
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Quoting: DartGuy86
If Marner bounces back? he was on pace for 94 points again this past season...


Yeah but most of his points were empty net goals or secondary assists. He just wasn’t contributing at the same level as the 2 previous seasons. Kept losing the puck, whiffing on shots or passes & tripping over his own feet. He was more of a liability.
21 déc 2020 à 12 h 40
#47
backcheck>paycheck
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Yeah but most of his points were empty net goals or secondary assists. He just wasn’t contributing at the same level as the 2 previous seasons. Kept losing the puck, whiffing on shots or passes & tripping over his own feet. He was more of a liability.


Of his 16 goals, 10 were even strength and 6 pp(so no empty-netters?) His A1/60 was 1.5, and A2/60 was 0.9...
21 déc 2020 à 21 h 12
#48
Rejoint: avr 2020
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Quoting: mhockey91
I mean saying vesey is better than tavares is trolling...


its honestly not. You Toronto fans cant see past the fact he wears the C and makes 11 mil. He isn't a clutch performer. Vesey always comes up in big games even back to his high school days. Hes a true leader in the locker room and I think a future NHL captain
21 déc 2020 à 21 h 19
#49
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Quoting: LGR
its honestly not. You Toronto fans cant see past the fact he wears the C and makes 11 mil. He isn't a clutch performer. Vesey always comes up in big games even back to his high school days. Hes a true leader in the locker room and I think a future NHL captain


I’m not a leafs fan but I know that a 1C is better than a fourth liner...
21 déc 2020 à 21 h 46
#50
Rejoint: avr 2020
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Quoting: mhockey91
I’m not a leafs fan but I know that a 1C is better than a fourth liner...


Vesey is a 1st line winger in the right situation. Tavares is carried by his line mates and he is a stone man
 
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