This is actually not bad.

Btw all the armchair people dumping on this trade don't understand Marners cap constraints and think this is a full skill for skill deal. Ignore them.

There is no Marner trade where Toronto gets Marners full talent in return. (unless they retain money which Tor cannot afford to do)

You have to add a 1st to that deal. Then Toronto will even consider this deal.

I agree with what you are saying, but I think they would definitely hold out for more or focus their trade attempts on Willie. This is a deal they can't afford to "lose", I'm a huge Marner fan, but part of me really wants him gone though. The way the negotiations went really pissed me off. I'm tired of hearing "oh it was the agent" because ultimately the player is the boss and if he loves the team and the fans that much, the negotiations certainly wouldn't have been that public for one thing. I also don't want the Leafs to have to deal with his dad again during the next contract negotiations.

"but I think they would definitely hold out for more or focus their trade attempts on Willie. "

Soon as you ask for significantly more the other teams remind you of the contract. You cannot get significantly more. It doesn't exist in other teams minds. Only in leafs land.

Why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, would you rather trade Willy? This guy could be a 30/60 guy for you for the next 10 years at 8 million per. Everyone is trying to trade him because for some reason you want to be stuck with the three 11 million guys and chop out the middle of your team. Focus on not doing both of the terrible things all Leafs fans want which is keeping Marner unless you somehow win an unwinnable trade. or moving the one guy, the ONE GUY you have under a correct contract.

Yeah I agree completely buddy, I really do. I just see it playing out that way and ending in a stupid move...again.
For me, Willie is close to untouchable, I have never said I would rather trade him or ever wanted to. I am the guy that always says "When he figures it all out...look out."
Maybe its from being a Leaf fan for so long, but I always expect stupidity to come about from management. I would take Willie at 6.9 or Marner at 11 any day of the week. Come on man, you know my thoughts on that.

You said it like what Toronto would do. Instead of what Toronto fans would expect. I don't think Dubas is pushing Willy or thinks this package would not be close for Marner. I think he would think similar to us. So your comment should be "but I think fans believe they would definitely hold out for more or focus their trade attempts on Willie. " instead

I get what you are saying, but I honestly think that if Dubie trades any of the big guys he wants it to be seen as a clear win. I think he would rather retain some salary and get more assets because remember that he has shown no improvement in team performance since he came in and it's not a good look. After his "I can and will" speech awhile ago, he won't want to be seen as weak

That is my personal opinion from listening to Toronto sports radio, I hope I am wrong, but my fear is that after all the bluster he won't go that route.

You may be right man, but I don't see it that way. Then again growing up a Leaf fan has me expecting the worst. I would push for Greenway in a deal too.

Now we don't agree. He knows by now he can't win a Marner trade. Otherwise he would have done one.
He knows that "winning" a WIlly trade doesn't move the money needle enough.

But more importantly, soon as you said he'd rather retain salary you lost me. No chance he would move Marner and retain money. You 100% never get out of the cap crunch this entire era if you make moves like that.

Marner (3 mil retained)

Stud D (6 mil)
Decent forward (3 mil)
1st rounder
medium prospect

That trade would get Dubas fired.

The moment he has to rely on these vets doing 1 year league min to survive is the moment he's done. Just because those deals are happening and it's working out doesn't mean the team wants to bank on them to keep happening. There's just no way you can pay for middle 6 forwards when you have to find a new goalie, resign Rielly, resign Hyman and retain 3 million. Can't be done.

Sigh...I'm talking the perception of him winning, we all know he won't, but I think he is on the hot seat already anyway. We don't even know for sure that he ever seriously considered moving him and listened to offers anyway. If after all this time of going on about the core, if he moves on without any success that will not look good to Shanahan or the owners. I never suggested a 3 mill retention anyway so I'm not sure where that number came from, even a million bucks is a lot of money and can change the complexion of a trade and that stupid Kessel retention comes off the books soon anyway. Again...I am not suggesting that I agree with any of this, but this is what I am worried about him doing. He has come out so many times and said the core is here to stay that I don't think he can afford to go back on all his bluster without hitting the perceived home run. Do I think he can? No I don't and I am only saying that I think he will...right or wrong.

I think you are confusing when I am saying I think they will do with what I would do. Every single post has been me saying "they" and not "me". I agreed with your first post and would probably take this deal or include more pieces to make it bigger. The problem with this situation and what you are saying is that there are egos in play and I am not sure he will move on and admit he is wrong. It took him how many years to finally admit that he needed toughness and skill and finesse was not enough? We all knew that was a recipe to lose in the playoffs and he stuck to his guns for a while and I don't see him changing without it being perceived as a clear victory. That is all I am saying.

I guess we'll agree to disagree

We're only disagreeing about Dubas' mindset. I think Dubas thinks closer to us and you think Dubas thinks closer to other Leaf fans. We're not that far off but it's fine to disagree about someone else's mindset anyway.