Far too much for Calgary to give up, especially with nothing retained

What do think, take out the 3rd?

This is CapFriendly. No matter how much you try everyone berates you for existing.

But regarding the trades, Calgary's 1st round pick should be conditional (if those still exist due to the new CBA), whereas if Calgary misses the 2021 playoffs, they have the option to keep their 2021 1st and give up a 2022 1st.
Chicago might want a bit more of a return for Toews and Gaudreau.

Rangers aren't interested in Toews or Kane trades.

First off, I get that people would do that, but typically if you do, I just block you.

Regarding the trades, I did emphasize that Calgary’s first was lottery protected in the description. Also, for toews, I kinda tried to make the deal fair on both sides. A 1st and 2nd are a good start, and kravtsov is looking lights out in Russia. Smith makes the cap more even and buch is expendable and entering his prime. Gaudreau is a little interesting but I definitely modeled this trade after the Sakic three way trade a few years ago. Essentially, Kane fetches a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd along with valimaki, frost, and a year of raffl.

I just really didn’t wanna borderline rip off any teams. Do you think they’re fair?

I believe that, but I’m only asking if they’re fair, like I said in the description.

I believe so. Better than what I could have come up with

Nope.

Eh, is there any logic behind that or just upset when people make Kane and toews trades with NYR? I’m not criticizing, you’re just not attaching any rational to your statement. If you any, feel free to explain. That’s what we’re here for. No worries if it’s just a no.

Personally don't think Toews is worth a package that large considering his age and contract. Especially not from a team that will finish in the lottery again.

You really don’t think the rangers can be a playoff team this year? Honest question. I think you guys look very strong. That 1st is definitely lottery protected that 2nd can be conditional. But the issue comes when you factor in toews being a 3 time champion on a huge contract. I do get wanting to just keep following the process, but toews is someone you need. I’m really surprised you guys didn’t get a center with that second 1st this year.

Either way, trading a captain is always gonna cost a little more. Plus, I am retaining on him and he still hasn’t declined. He looked great in the playoffs. I do completely get that you don’t want toews or even Kane, but Toews still has value with retention. I may need to remove a pick, but I was hoping taking back smith might have warranted another pick.

Yeah no chance Flames touch that

Because? Or just because?

First off, I appreciate you're professionalism and I may have came off a little too strong and could've been more transparent on my reasoning. I totally agree with the potential ask for Toews considering the additional salary retention and Lottery Protections. Yes, I was a full supporter for them to take a Center preferably Hendrix Lapierre at #22 but they felt there was a better fit with Schneider. Personally disagree with the decision but I like the player so there isn't a lot to be disappointed by.

I personally don't see the Rangers being good at all. I think we'll be bad. Not just a playoff miss but a yet another lottery year. The Front Office has depleted an already brutal defense and the team is very young and inexperienced. Having a rookie as a starter with a defense that is this bad is not a recipe for consistency and sustainable success. This is why I think this trade is detrimental to us and in some instances the Blackhawks as well. If this we're to happen it wouldn't fix our defensive issues and that condition to defer the pick is not something I would love if I was a hawks fan. Even though the 2022 draft is the best draft since 2003 and 2015, or at least believed to be that good, it will only delay the process to rebound.

I compare us to this past year's Winnipeg Jets. Incredible offensive pieces. Great goaltending. No center depth on than their 1C's and bad defense with some outliers.

By offensive pieces:
WPG: Laine, Schiefele, Wheeler, Connor, Roslovic, etc.
NYR: Lafreniere, Kreider, Panarin, Zibanejad, Buchnevich, Kakko, etc.

by goaltending:
WPG: Hellebuyck
NYR: Shesterkin

No center depth:
WPG: Schifele, Little(INJ), Copp, Lowry
NYR: Zibanejad,Strome,Howden,McKegg,Chytil

Bad defense( More so unfinished) filled by:
WPG: Kulikov, Bitetto, a Rookie Heinola, a newbie Pionk, Niku.
NYR: Staal, Smith, Trouba in his first year, DeAngelo, and Hajek

The difference between a 27 year old Gaudreau at <7M and a 32 year old Kane at >10M is way less than that.

But Gaudreau is going to philly. Like I said in the description. Plus, isn’t Gaudreau leaving Calgary always a thing?

What does Philly receiving Gaudreau here have anything to do with Calgary getting fleeced?

Nah. The difference between Kane and Gaudreau is not essentially two first rounders. Kane would fill the hole Gaudreau would leave, but it doesn't really change the way the team is going. Both of those players are wingers with unlimited amount of skill but with some shortage in their defensive game. Gaudreau's 27 and has two years left, Kane is 31 with 3 years left, and he also costs $4M more than Gaudreau does. I don't necessarily see a lot of value difference between these two. Think Gaudreau+Ryan+2nd for Kane would be the absolute maximum they would offer.

I personally believe though that CGY would be more interested in Toews. I made a post regarding a Toews trade between these two teams, where CHI received Hanifin+Rittich+Pelletier+Zagidulin+1st in exchange to Toews(50% salary retained)+Delia+Hagel+2nd. Do you think that is fair? In terms of needs, CGY is in need of a playoff experienced TOP6 Center...

As for the NYR trade, it's also bit excessive in terms of value. Buchnevich, two first round pick equivalents and a cap dump...salty price to pay for a 32 year old C...

Gaudreau to Philly makes sense, but naturally the other team must take some salary in because PHI can't afford making this move otherwise.

Staal isn't on the team anymore. Smith would be included in this trade as a cap dump (which costs).

Also comparing Shesterkin to Hellebuyck is very optimistic

It's hard to say that because are you getting the 58 points in 70 games Gaudreau or the 99 points in 82 game Gaudreau?

Regardless, with Kane you know that you are getting the elite version

Right my bad. I was comparing 2019 Jets to Rangers currently. Shesterkin won't be as good as Hellebuyck but what I'm comparing are strengths and weaknesses.

I think you are underrating the Rangers. I can see why you guys wouldn't want Toews but I think that the Rangers are going to be a legit team next year.

I will say that veterans have become under appreciated

What makes you think that? I'm just being realistic and modest. Everyone thought we we're going to beat the Hurricanes and I tried to tell people about our defensive issues. No one listened. This defense is even worse than last years. I strongly disagree we'll be good. Look at the 2019 Jets for example. They got the 10th pick with a similar roster but more seasoned players.

In Kanes 6th NHL season (this was Gaudreaus 6th) he had 66 points in 82 games. Both players have been ppg players their entire career and play extremely similar game styles. Coincidentally enough the following season that year was the semi lock-out where Kane got 55 points in 47 games, and this season looks likely to be a shortened one as well. I think it is a pretty safe bet to say Gaudreau will bounce back to around a ppg

Kane actually had the 55 points in 47 games in his 6th season. Also Gaudreau is a couple years older in his 6th NHL season as Kane was in his 6th NHL season.

Truthfully, I don't think that linearly comparing their production to date and predicting the future based on their careers is an accurate way of measuring value because part of what made Kane an elite player was how he's elevated his game later in his career.

I like Gaudreau and don't really see the point of this trade for Calgary but I doubt he has the second half of his career like Kane.