@Subbanator7667 @Breadmanhawks

*Sees Draisaitl at 4th and Eichel at 6th*

*Pukes a little in my mouth*

Suzuki’s a little high and Barzal is too low.

Giroux is not a center.

Why? How many hart trophies has Eichel won?

As per the description: "The point of the list is less about what order they are in, and more about the fact that Danault isn't in the top 30 C's in the league."

That's cool though, happy to hear any objections though!

Yeah, I had Giroux because he still plays a bit, but you're right, he's definitely more of a winger. I only really put Suzuki on to show that Danault isn't really even the best C on Montreal...

I’d put Danault in the top 30 tbh

Who would you boot? Giroux, obviously, but anyone else?

I mean, I'd still have Getzy in there at the bottom, but didn't want to be too much of a homer.

I think Danault is at the bottom end, circling around 27-30. Giroux plays wing and Duchene is def worse. You could have Monahan around that 30-slot as well though

I’d boot Couture tbh

Duchene was still one of the best possession C's in the league, even with the declining point total from last year, playing in that super-defensive Nashville system. I'd also have put Monahan, but Flames fans convinced me that he's all offense, and no D.

Fair.

I also think Kuznetsov hardly makes the top-30 if at all

According to which numbers? Cause if its not isolated, I suspect Forsberg is pulling the possession load on that line

Rough year last year for sure. The point of this is more in response to him saying "Danualt at 5 on 5 is a top 15 center last year, that's considering points and advanced stats. Advanced metric would actually put him top 10 but I wouldn't go that far."

I mean I don't necessarily think either of Draisaitl or McDavid is a top10 C at 5on5 to be fair

That guy thinks Couturier is a top 2 center in the league, so you aren't gonna get him to agree with you

Corsi, Fenwick, faceoff %, point total was reasonable...I think if we're arguing about other players pulling the load, a bunch of these guys might get bounced.

Yeah but that's a reasonable conclusion. Now I don't think Faceoff % matters, but yeah, we should hold players accountable for their isolated numbers.

Danault isn't better than any of these players lol and there's more you could add.

I don't see how we can put Suzuki and his career 1300 minutes TOI in the top thirty centers already

I'd put Danault ahead of Duchene, Couture, and Giroux from a pure effectiveness-at-center perspective

I would say that Stampkos isn't a center anymore, neither is Giroux. I wouldn't have Suzuki in there yet. I would also put him above Duchene. Couture is a question mark since he was hurt all year.

its like I said though, its all different metrics to determine who is better. Danault doesn't put up power play points but has more even strength points then a few guys on here and being more defensive, so give or take I would ay top 25 last year. Next year I don't know if he stays there.

Are there any metrics that can come close to proving isolated numbers? I'm into baseball advanced stats, and have a reasonable handle on hockey analytics, but there's nothing that really confirms ISO, unless you sort of tear apart the entire line that the player played with.

Are there any metrics that can come close to proving isolated numbers? I'm into baseball advanced stats, and have a reasonable handle on hockey analytics, but there's nothing that really confirms ISO, unless you sort of tear apart the entire line that the player played with.

Well, there's usually a pretty large sample as lines are shuffled during the season, injuries happen, and there are often priors. But of course it gets complicated if Pastrnak, Bergeron and Marchand play together for years without injuries - Pasta improving could me masked by Bergy becoming worse, and vice versa, but in general that doesn't happen I guess. I'm not entirely sure what goes into the isolation, maybe someone has a write up on it - but the analytics ppl I follow are usually pretty confident in their ability to isolate performance, so I guess I've just kind of trusted that no ones being super dishonest