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Trading Caufield and Danault to win now

Créé par: Goreton
Équipe: 2020-21 Canadiens de Montréal
Date de création initiale: 20 oct. 2020
Publié: 20 oct. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
UFAANSCAP HIT
1700 000 $
12 500 000 $
Transactions
1.
MTL
  1. Toews, Jonathan (3 000 000 $ retained)
CHI
  1. Caufield, Cole [Liste de réserve]
  2. Danault, Phillip
  3. Hudon, Charles [Droits de RFA]
  4. Lindgren, Charlie
  5. Choix de 1e ronde en 2021 (MTL)
  6. Choix de 4e ronde en 2021 (VGK)
Détails additionnels:
Danault signs an extension with Chicago.
2.
3.
MTL
  1. Choix de 1e ronde en 2021 (NSH)
NSH
  1. Tatar, Tomas
  2. Choix de 3e ronde en 2021 (WSH)
Rachats de contrats
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2021
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2022
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2023
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $73 382 976 $0 $3 987 500 $8 117 024 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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2 125 000 $2 125 000 $
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UFA - 4
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7 500 000 $7 500 000 $
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NMC
UFA - 3
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3 750 000 $3 750 000 $
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AG, AD
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863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance425 000 $$425K)
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UFA - 2
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5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
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C
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700 000 $700 000 $
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UFA - 1
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925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
C, AG
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
1 750 000 $1 750 000 $
DG/DD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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7 857 143 $7 857 143 $
DD
UFA - 6
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10 500 000 $10 500 000 $
G
NMC
UFA - 6
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875 000 $875 000 $
DG/DD
M-NTC
UFA - 4
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5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
DD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
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4 350 000 $4 350 000 $
G
UFA - 1
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925 000 $925 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
894 167 $894 167 $ (Bonis de performance212 500 $$212K)
DG
RFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
735 000 $735 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Coyotes de l'Arizona
5 275 000 $5 275 000 $
AD
NMC
UFA - 1

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20 oct. 2020 à 6 h 57
#1
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Toews isnt worth a top 5 prospect and a top 25 center in the league, let alone adding all the other pieces, even with retention.

Easy pass from the Habs on that one.
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20 oct. 2020 à 7 h 2
#2
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Quoting: Subbanator7667
Toews isnt worth a top 5 prospect and a top 25 center in the league, let alone adding all the other pieces, even with retention.

Easy pass from the Habs on that one.


Yes it is a steep price but I don't think the Hawks would ask for less.
20 oct. 2020 à 7 h 11
#3
Vegan Commie Hipster
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But Danault+Tatar+Byron is way more valuable to helping them win now than Toews is alone... 😐

Tatar outscored JT last season in 3:00/game less

Danault got 30 more selke votes than Toews did

Byron is still good why is everyone unloading him

Meanwhile Chiarot & Edmundson are both just ok
20 oct. 2020 à 8 h 13
#4
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Quoting: Subbanator7667
Toews isnt worth a top 5 prospect and a top 25 center in the league, let alone adding all the other pieces, even with retention.

Easy pass from the Habs on that one.


Couple of questions...
-Are you considering Danault a top 25 center in the league when he's arguably not even a top 2C anymore on his own team?
-Top 5 prospect on the Habs? Or top 5 in the league?
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20 oct. 2020 à 8 h 24
#5
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Quoting: Lenny7
Couple of questions...
-Are you considering Danault a top 25 center in the league when he's arguably not even a top 2C anymore on his own team?
-Top 5 prospect on the Habs? Or top 5 in the league?


Both answers are in the league.

Danault came 6th in Selke votes for a reason last year, he is good, but has probably reached his potential while the younger guys are players the Habs are hoping over come his plateau.

Caufield is easily one of the best prospects not in the NHL. Couple guys I would put ahead of him but not many.
20 oct. 2020 à 8 h 30
#6
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well, for starters, arizona isn't going to do that. Hossa costs almost nothing in real dollars
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20 oct. 2020 à 8 h 31
#7
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Quoting: Subbanator7667
Toews isnt worth a top 5 prospect and a top 25 center in the league, let alone adding all the other pieces, even with retention.

Easy pass from the Habs on that one.


With all due respect. Caufield isn't a top 5 prospect in the world and danault, while a good player, is not a top 25 center.
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20 oct. 2020 à 8 h 38
#8
I heff to be mad...
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Danault back to Chicago
20 oct. 2020 à 8 h 48
#9
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Quoting: Subbanator7667
Both answers are in the league.

Danault came 6th in Selke votes for a reason last year, he is good, but has probably reached his potential while the younger guys are players the Habs are hoping over come his plateau.

Caufield is easily one of the best prospects not in the NHL. Couple guys I would put ahead of him but not many.


Re: Caufield-Top 5 seems a bit generous...I'd put (in no particular order) Laffy, Byfield, Zegras, Kaprizov, Cozens, Byram and Turcotte...he looks like he could be a stud though!
Re: Danault-He's very good, but I don't think he's in the top 25.
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20 oct. 2020 à 9 h 1
#10
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
With all due respect. Caufield isn't a top 5 prospect in the world and danault, while a good player, is not a top 25 center.


Everyone will have an opinion until they actually show what they can do in the nhl but Caufield showed he was elite. Biggest knock against him was that he was a Jack Hughes product and last year showed he clearly isn't.

Danault doesn't pyut up pp points but 5 on 5 he is great. Out scored 2/3 selke finalist on 5 on 5., so id say he is a top 25
20 oct. 2020 à 9 h 18
#11
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Quoting: Lenny7
Re: Caufield-Top 5 seems a bit generous...I'd put (in no particular order) Laffy, Byfield, Zegras, Kaprizov, Cozens, Byram and Turcotte...he looks like he could be a stud though!
Re: Danault-He's very good, but I don't think he's in the top 25.


I wasn't counting this years draft class. Zegras is the clear cut #1 to me but after that Caufield falls into that Cozens, Byram, Kaprizov group. I wouldn't include Turcotte, I watched Badgers games because of Caufield and he was better then Turcotte every game.

Danualt at 5 on 5 is a top 15 center last year, that's considering points and advanced stats. Advanced metric would actually put him top 10 but I wouldn't go that far.
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20 oct. 2020 à 9 h 20
#12
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Quoting: Lenny7
Re: Caufield-Top 5 seems a bit generous...I'd put (in no particular order) Laffy, Byfield, Zegras, Kaprizov, Cozens, Byram and Turcotte...he looks like he could be a stud though!
Re: Danault-He's very good, but I don't think he's in the top 25.


Laff and Byfield are only top prospects outside the nhl because the season hasnt started though lol. They both will be playing there to start the season. I dont think Caufield is top 5 at this moment but i think he has one of the highest ceilings, the reason he isnt in that group is simply because theres obvious question marks, as there always is with a smaller player, until he does it in the nhl consistently.
That being said i dont see how the Toews deal makes the habs better. At this point, even with 3.5 mil retained, i dont know if i would even deal Danault and a 1st for Toews. He does bring so much leadership to the team and he knows how to win but the habs arent in need of another voice in the locker room they have plenty of vet presence, and that contract would only become more of an issue.
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20 oct. 2020 à 9 h 39
#13
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Quoting: Subbanator7667
I wasn't counting this years draft class. Zegras is the clear cut #1 to me but after that Caufield falls into that Cozens, Byram, Kaprizov group. I wouldn't include Turcotte, I watched Badgers games because of Caufield and he was better then Turcotte every game.

Danualt at 5 on 5 is a top 15 center last year, that's considering points and advanced stats. Advanced metric would actually put him top 10 but I wouldn't go that far.


Why wouldn't you go that far? If you are going to use advanced metrics to announce him as a top 25 player then why stop at top 25 if the metrics actually show him to be a top 10 player or even better at top 5 player? The whole premise of advanced statistics are that they take into account overall impact on the game and situations that aren't accounted for, so if you want to use them; use them, don't back down because it'll make you look ridiculous in the eyes of the public lol.
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20 oct. 2020 à 9 h 42
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Quoting: Subbanator7667
I wasn't counting this years draft class. Zegras is the clear cut #1 to me but after that Caufield falls into that Cozens, Byram, Kaprizov group. I wouldn't include Turcotte, I watched Badgers games because of Caufield and he was better then Turcotte every game.

Danualt at 5 on 5 is a top 15 center last year, that's considering points and advanced stats. Advanced metric would actually put him top 10 but I wouldn't go that far.


That's like saying, he's the best player in the world. If you exclude every other player in the world.

Or like saying that Dubois is the best center in the world... if the only team that exists is Columbus
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20 oct. 2020 à 9 h 47
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Quoting: Breadmanhawks
Why wouldn't you go that far? If you are going to use advanced metrics to announce him as a top 25 player then why stop at top 25 if the metrics actually show him to be a top 10 player or even better at top 5 player? The whole premise of advanced statistics are that they take into account overall impact on the game and situations that aren't accounted for, so if you want to use them; use them, don't back down because it'll make you look ridiculous in the eyes of the public lol.


Because I don't believe that much in analytics. My opinion is he is a top 20 center in the NHL, my opinion is based off the eye test of watching every game he has ever played in MTL. Has nothing to do with public opinion.
20 oct. 2020 à 9 h 49
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Quoting: Subbanator7667
Because I don't believe that much in analytics. My opinion is he is a top 20 center in the NHL, my opinion is based off the eye test of watching every game he has ever played in MTL. Has nothing to do with public opinion.


If you don't believe in analytics then why are you even talking about them? Because non analytics has him more in the top 50 center range.
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20 oct. 2020 à 9 h 56
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Quoting: Breadmanhawks
If you don't believe in analytics then why are you even talking about them? Because non analytics has him more in the top 50 center range.


Its called having a diverse knowledge base. Know facts, analyse them and then use your own eyes to make a judgement. Basically what every professional does.
20 oct. 2020 à 9 h 59
#18
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Quoting: habs_need_Scoring
Laff and Byfield are only top prospects outside the nhl because the season hasnt started though lol. They both will be playing there to start the season. I dont think Caufield is top 5 at this moment but i think he has one of the highest ceilings, the reason he isnt in that group is simply because theres obvious question marks, as there always is with a smaller player, until he does it in the nhl consistently.
That being said i dont see how the Toews deal makes the habs better. At this point, even with 3.5 mil retained, i dont know if i would even deal Danault and a 1st for Toews. He does bring so much leadership to the team and he knows how to win but the habs arent in need of another voice in the locker room they have plenty of vet presence, and that contract would only become more of an issue.


Agreed re: the Toews deal...there's not a lot of point in it if you're the Habs. He's still extremely good, and realistically, you don't have to worry about the contract, since he's only signed for 3 more years...I just don't think it's smart for either team.
20 oct. 2020 à 10 h 0
#19
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Quoting: Subbanator7667
Its called having a diverse knowledge base. Know facts, analyse them and then use your own eyes to make a judgement. Basically what every professional does.


No it's called making no sense.

"This trade is bad because Danault is a top 15 player because analytics have Danault as a top 10 player" --> "I don't believe in Analytics"

Then don't talk about Analytics and if you do want to talk about analytics then understand that it's not really a combination thing where you use whichever statistics suits your narrative. Because if you want to play that game then also mention that Toews has 50 more points over the past two seasons than Danault has.

Edit: I don't actually think this is smart for Montreal but it's not for the same reasons that you don't think it's smart.
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20 oct. 2020 à 10 h 3
#20
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Quoting: Subbanator7667
Its called having a diverse knowledge base. Know facts, analyse them and then use your own eyes to make a judgement. Basically what every professional does.


Yikes. I'll create an ACGM thread with who I'd consider to be the top 40 C's in the game, and we can debate where you think he actually should sit.
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20 oct. 2020 à 10 h 19
#21
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yes from Chicago if their goal is to rebuild.
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20 oct. 2020 à 10 h 23
#22
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Quoting: Breadmanhawks
No it's called making no sense.

"This trade is bad because Danault is a top 15 player because analytics have Danault as a top 10 player" --> "I don't believe in Analytics"

Then don't talk about Analytics and if you do want to talk about analytics then understand that it's not really a combination thing where you use whichever statistics suits your narrative. Because if you want to play that game then also mention that Toews has 50 more points over the past two seasons than Danault has.

Edit: I don't actually think this is smart for Montreal but it's not for the same reasons that you don't think it's smart.


Analytics is a tool, you use that tool how you like. Its not that hard to have an opinion and support that opinion with data, even if you don't place the source of that data in the highest regards.

So because I don't think he is a top 15 center like some analytic models I cant use their data in an argument? what kind of non sense logic is that
20 oct. 2020 à 10 h 34
#23
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Quoting: Subbanator7667
Analytics is a tool, you use that tool how you like. Its not that hard to have an opinion and support that opinion with data, even if you don't place the source of that data in the highest regards.

So because I don't think he is a top 15 center like some analytic models I cant use their data in an argument? what kind of non sense logic is that


So do you think he's a top 15 center or not because you did say on 5vs5 he was:

"Danualt at 5 on 5 is a top 15 center last year, that's considering points and advanced stats"
20 oct. 2020 à 10 h 36
#24
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Quoting: Subbanator7667
Analytics is a tool, you use that tool how you like. Its not that hard to have an opinion and support that opinion with data, even if you don't place the source of that data in the highest regards.

So because I don't think he is a top 15 center like some analytic models I cant use their data in an argument? what kind of non sense logic is that


My point is that you are using the best argument to make the case for why Danault is better than Toews but it doesn't make sense and it's not even true.

Like I said, I would never make this trade if I was the Canadiens because they aren't "a Toews away from competing". But the whole premise that the value isn't fair is absurd because Toews at 7M is worth this return. Just not smart for Montreal to make the trade
20 oct. 2020 à 10 h 43
#25
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Quoting: Breadmanhawks
So do you think he's a top 15 center or not because you did say on 5vs5 he was:

"Danualt at 5 on 5 is a top 15 center last year, that's considering points and advanced stats"


Is 5 on 5 the whole game? No. Yes, he is very good 5 on 5, out scored 2/3 Selke finalist at even strength, am I all of a sudden going to say he is better then ROR though? No. Its about looking at everything and making your own determination.
 
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