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Advice on how to sell your cap dump

Créé par: NHLfan10506
Équipe: 2020-21 Devils du New Jersey
Date de création initiale: 16 oct. 2020
Publié: 16 oct. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
I am only speaking on behalf of myself, but others with similar experience may join in.

Teams like DET, OTT, NJD often get cap dump trades (pretty much only cap dumps). Some are realistic and provide benefits for both sides. Most do not. Here is what I have found works and doesn't work. Thought I'd share...

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FIRST, here are three things you should NEVER to say when dumping a contract:

1. He is a veteran to help your young guys
2. The cash isn't as bad as the AAV
3. He would be a starter on your team

SECOND, know what you are selling. It is not a useful veteran...it is THE INCENTIVE to take that veteran. It's the pick or a prospect (that just happens to have someone else's contract attached). The rebuilding team won't care if he scores 20, or if he cannot tie his own skates. To the other team, they only want the incentive. That is what you are selling.

THIRD, know the market in which you are selling. Even pre-covid, dumping Backes and Marleau returned 1st round picks. Rounding a 5th rounder up to a 4th rounder doesn't move the needle on a camp dump.

FOURTH, sell from strength and now from weakness Don't say, "my team is in cap hell".... instead ,say "we are flush with winger prospects and 2nd round picks and we can use them to create cap space".

---

These are not full-proof and the author cannot guarantee anything. But hopefully, these offers will become a bit more palatable.

Best of luck and...
Happy dumping
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16 oct. 2020 à 18 h 23
#1
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a 2nd is better for Byron
16 oct. 2020 à 18 h 23
#2
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Couldn't agree more. In most cases, the cost it would take to dump a bad contract is more than teams are willing to pay which is why we've seen so many buyouts and very few teams actually moving the contracts. There isn't necessarily a deal to be made that makes sense for both teams.
16 oct. 2020 à 18 h 26
#3
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The quality of the player being dumped does make a difference though.
16 oct. 2020 à 18 h 27
#4
Good Opinion Haver
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For the record, Marleau only cost so much to move because he was never going to play a single game for Carolina and everyone seems to be forgetting that Boston got Ondrej Kase back in that Backes trade who is now playing in their top six (and everyone forgets that until a pre-obviously bad and boat anchor contract laden Justin Faulk nixed the trade Kase almost went to Carolina in exchange for him, Kase was worth quite a bit), so Boston, in retrospect, gave up pretty much nothing to get rid of Backes.

Pre-covid as long as it wasn't for too long teams wouldn't have to pay to get out of bad contracts and teams wouldn't take advantage of cap strapped teams. Obviously the math has changed a bit now.

Not sure if you just picked oft-traded bad contracts out of a hat so maybe this isn't a real criticism but PSA to the masses: the Blues aren't interested in moving Steen and I don't think really ever were even before Pietrangelo was leaving, certainly not now and certainly not for a price.
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16 oct. 2020 à 18 h 40
#5
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I agree that it costs quite a bit to dump a contract. However players like Byron who are only overpaid by about 1 Mil and are still very useful players and still hold value to GM's around the league won't cost a 1st to move. Byron cod get a late pick back without the Habs having to add but the problem is he is more valuable to the Habs than a 5th or 6th would be.
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16 oct. 2020 à 18 h 43
#6
T.D.G line.
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Bryon is not a cap dump for Montreal. He plays up and down the line up when healthy and one of 1st players over the boards when it's time for the P.K.
It sucks that he has been injured the last two years.
we will keep him.
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16 oct. 2020 à 18 h 45
#7
BorisBagel
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Habs pass
16 oct. 2020 à 18 h 48
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Haha it has never costed a first to move a player. NEVER!!! Marleau refused to play for Carolina forcing a buy out VERY VERY VERY different situation and it still proved completely stupid to do.
Backes did not cost a first some thing tells me they got more back than cap relief. Haha
Marc Staal is super expensive and useless on the ice that’s the peek and most drastic fair example to use please note NO FIRST rounder included.
It is very fair to argue a veteran even if slightly overpaid can bring value to a rebuilding club. How has rolling out youth constantly worked out for Edmonton? It took the additions of a few more veteran players like Neal Chiasson Larsson russell to stabilize the team and make them a tougher team to play against and youth does benefit from veterans on and off the ice. I just think this is foolish
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16 oct. 2020 à 18 h 50
#9
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Quoting: Canucks33
The quality of the player being dumped does make a difference though.


To the team dumping him, perhaps. To the team taking him, it means diddly-squat. What you are offering is the pick or prospect.
16 oct. 2020 à 18 h 51
#10
Speak of the Devil
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I agree with this
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16 oct. 2020 à 18 h 51
#11
alwaysnextyear
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All of these other teams pass. I’ve ‘cap dumped’ Eriksson in many a Canucks ACGM with a 1st + another pick or good player, and often get fans of the other teams happily accepting. 2x 1sts is madness.
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16 oct. 2020 à 19 h 3
#12
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Quoting: TheEarthmaster
For the record, Marleau only cost so much to move because he was never going to play a single game for Carolina and everyone seems to be forgetting that Boston got Ondrej Kase back in that Backes trade who is now playing in their top six (and everyone forgets that until a pre-obviously bad and boat anchor contract laden Justin Faulk nixed the trade Kase almost went to Carolina in exchange for him, Kase was worth quite a bit), so Boston, in retrospect, gave up pretty much nothing to get rid of Backes.

Pre-covid as long as it wasn't for too long teams wouldn't have to pay to get out of bad contracts and teams wouldn't take advantage of cap strapped teams. Obviously the math has changed a bit now.

Not sure if you just picked oft-traded bad contracts out of a hat so maybe this isn't a real criticism but PSA to the masses: the Blues aren't interested in moving Steen and I don't think really ever were even before Pietrangelo was leaving, certainly not now and certainly not for a price.


It was Axel for Kase...a 1st to take Backes. Steen was a bit random (but STL has to move someone and his NTC ends a month into season).

Quoting: Campabee
I agree that it costs quite a bit to dump a contract. However players like Byron who are only overpaid by about 1 Mil and are still very useful players and still hold value to GM's around the league won't cost a 1st to move. Byron cod get a late pick back without the Habs having to add but the problem is he is more valuable to the Habs than a 5th or 6th would be.


Quoting: TGDline
Bryon is not a cap dump for Montreal. He plays up and down the line up when healthy and one of 1st players over the boards when it's time for the P.K.
It sucks that he has been injured the last two years.
we will keep him.


If this were true about Byron, Habs fans would be offering him every five minutes. But I am not really singling him out ... just making a broader point.

Quoting: Timmah007
Haha it has never costed a first to move a player. NEVER!!! Marleau refused to play for Carolina forcing a buy out VERY VERY VERY different situation and it still proved completely stupid to do.
Backes did not cost a first some thing tells me they got more back than cap relief. Haha
Marc Staal is super expensive and useless on the ice that’s the peek and most drastic fair example to use please note NO FIRST rounder included.
It is very fair to argue a veteran even if slightly overpaid can bring value to a rebuilding club. How has rolling out youth constantly worked out for Edmonton? It took the additions of a few more veteran players like Neal Chiasson Larsson russell to stabilize the team and make them a tougher team to play against and youth does benefit from veterans on and off the ice. I just think this is foolish


Never costed a first.....but you hit two examples right there.
And I'm not anti-veteran. I am pro-veteran. Just don't try to sell me on your veterans, I'll find my own.
16 oct. 2020 à 19 h 18
#13
CHI NYI
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All fair points, however the Cash vs AAV is a legit thing to mention I think, especially now. I've proposed a Boychuk for Zaitsev swap in the past, which I feel could work well for both teams if the right additions are made; Islanders get the more expensive player for longer, but at a lesser AAV. Meanwhile, the Sens get the cheaper player, with a higher cap hit for shorter. I had it constructed with both sides making additions although I wasn't totally sure how to do it. I don't know if the Sens are looking to shed real money at this point, so you might have to try something like this with another team, but I do think it's worthwhile to consider how a contract with a higher AAV and lower in actual money. Of course, that's not the only reason a team should do it, which is what I think is the point you're trying to make, some definitely worth considering if you're a team in that predicament.
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16 oct. 2020 à 22 h 9
#14
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Blues are putting Steen on LTIR for the entire season his injury from playoffs hasn't gotten any better so most likely LTIRetire.
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17 oct. 2020 à 1 h 48
#15
SLIMY
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"SECOND, know what you are selling. It is not a useful veteran...it is THE INCENTIVE to take that veteran. It's the pick or a prospect (that just happens to have someone else's contract attached). The rebuilding team won't care if he scores 20, or if he cannot tie his own skates. To the other team, they only want the incentive. That is what you are selling."

since it seems like I am the only one that read the description, just wanted to thank you for making this point.

Unless it is a guy like Schmidt or Johnsson that check all of the boxes on the buyer side, nobody cares about the on ice value of the asset. Its almost always a matter of the seller deciding just how much he is willing to give up in order to clear cap space, and the buyers are under no obligation to accept. From the devils perspective, almost every player over the age of 26 is going to be viewed as a cap dump. the going rate is likely a 1st, or top prospect per about every 4mm you are trying to unload. I am sure the price will also be going up with every passing day, as 28 teams are basically trying to play a game of musical chairs with the 3 teams that have remaining cap space.
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