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Montreal Canadiens signed Jake Allen (2 Years / $2,875,000 AAV)

Was this a good signing?
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14 oct à 14 h 20
#126
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 215
Mentions "j'aime": 160
I really dislike the Jake Allen trade, giving up an asset in a cap dump for a goalie who is considerably overpaid didn't seem like a good move given the goalies available this summer.

But the trade is done, the signing is fine. Jake Allen hasn't been a very good goalie, but he did have a good year last year in a reduced role, so making $2.8M seems like an OK fit. I know it's a lot to add to Price's contract, but that contract is bad on it's own, you don't make things worse by not getting an decent back up if that's what's needed. Also, Montreal needs to expose a goalie, so they can now expose Allen as he will meet the criteria. So overall, it's fine.

I hate what Bergevin has done this summer in terms of strategy, but I wouldn't let that paint my view of each move as if they are all automatically bad. Bergevin is a weird GM, he has made some of the best, and worst trades and signings I have seen in the last 3-5 years. I never know what to expect.
Dotz789 et rollie1967 a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 14 h 23
#127
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 5,747
Mentions "j'aime": 2,082
Quoting: Dotz789
It’s okay, I’ll come back to this next summer when Allen has a below average year and loses some big games for you guys.. Then my opinion won’t be an opinion anymore. Until then, PEACE FOO


That will be fair, but there aren't any signs that, that will happen.
14 oct à 14 h 25
#128
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 5,747
Mentions "j'aime": 2,082
Quoting: Danny12357
I really dislike the Jake Allen trade, giving up an asset in a cap dump for a goalie who is considerably overpaid didn't seem like a good move given the goalies available this summer.

But the trade is done, the signing is fine. Jake Allen hasn't been a very good goalie, but he did have a good year last year in a reduced role, so making $2.8M seems like an OK fit. I know it's a lot to add to Price's contract, but that contract is bad on it's own, you don't make things worse by not getting an decent back up if that's what's needed. Also, Montreal needs to expose a goalie, so they can now expose Allen as he will meet the criteria. So overall, it's fine.

I hate what Bergevin has done this summer in terms of strategy, but I wouldn't let that paint my view of each move as if they are all automatically bad. Bergevin is a weird GM, he has made some of the best, and worst trades and signings I have seen in the last 3-5 years. I never know what to expect.


Allen has been a very good goalie, he just isn't a 55+ starter type of guy. If he was, you wouldn't get him for a 3rd round pick.
14 oct à 14 h 28
#129
Rejoint: oct 2017
Messages: 141
Mentions "j'aime": 28
Modifié 14 oct à 14 h 44
Quoting: Danny12357
I really dislike the Jake Allen trade, giving up an asset in a cap dump for a goalie who is considerably overpaid didn't seem like a good move given the goalies available this summer.

But the trade is done, the signing is fine. Jake Allen hasn't been a very good goalie, but he did have a good year last year in a reduced role, so making $2.8M seems like an OK fit. I know it's a lot to add to Price's contract, but that contract is bad on it's own, you don't make things worse by not getting an decent back up if that's what's needed. Also, Montreal needs to expose a goalie, so they can now expose Allen as he will meet the criteria. So overall, it's fine.

I hate what Bergevin has done this summer in terms of strategy, but I wouldn't let that paint my view of each move as if they are all automatically bad. Bergevin is a weird GM, he has made some of the best, and worst trades and signings I have seen in the last 3-5 years. I never know what to expect.


The part that doesn’t do it for me is he’s set to make 4.3M this upcoming season from his previous contract and then 2.8M for two more years. Not quite sure why MTL would want to keep him on the books for two extra years. I could see the re-signing for 1 but not 2 plus when you have other guys you’re trying to keep and sign. Having 13M+ tied up in two goalies isn’t great cap management. Seattle expansion draft is next summer ...
rollie1967 a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 14 h 56
#130
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 229
Mentions "j'aime": 92
Quoting: Dotz789
The part that doesn’t do it for me is he’s set to make 4.3M this upcoming season from his previous contract and then 2.8M for two more years. Not quite sure why MTL would want to keep him on the books for two extra years. I could see the re-signing for 1 but not 2 plus when you have other guys you’re trying to keep and sign. Having 13M+ tied up in two goalies isn’t great cap management. Seattle expansion draft is next summer ...


I agree that having 13M+ in goalies is not ideal. But the problem is not with Allen's 2.8. With Price making 10.5M you are always going to have too much tied up in goalies. Unfortunately that is where Montreal find themselves.
14 oct à 15 h 10
#131
Rejoint: oct 2017
Messages: 141
Mentions "j'aime": 28
Quoting: OldmanWebber
I agree that having 13M+ in goalies is not ideal. But the problem is not with Allen's 2.8. With Price making 10.5M you are always going to have too much tied up in goalies. Unfortunately that is where Montreal find themselves.


It’s one thing to pay an elite goalie what he deserves.. even if it’s 1-2M overpayment than it is to overpay a mediocre, inconsistent, “backup” who is about to go downhill fast. Bad cap management all around. Prime example of why MTL will not be cup contenders or a top 5 team for the next decade minimum. Sad such a storied franchise is being run into the ground by an incompetent no neck. You know that guy who sold arguably his best player for an injury prone 3rd liner and paid him more than what he would’ve paid his best player.. Domi/Anderson trade.
14 oct à 15 h 38
#132
Go Avs Go
Rejoint: oct 2020
Messages: 25
Mentions "j'aime": 16
Pretty High when compared to Dell IMO
14 oct à 15 h 39
#133
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 446
Mentions "j'aime": 185
Quoting: HabsForEver
This is questionable because of Primeau's timeline, but solid signing nonetheless


It just got even harder to sign all the UFA's next year.

Terrible and unnecessary given the circumstances.
rollie1967 a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 15 h 58
#134
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 446
Mentions "j'aime": 185
Quoting: HabsForEver
Allen has been a very good goalie.


JAKE ALLEN (30)
Cap Hit = $3,400,000 x 3 years (average)
Traded = 3rd + 7th round picks (2020)

2017-18 = 59 games = 0.906 SV%
2018-19 = 46 games = 0.905 SV%
2019-20 = 24 games = 0.927 SV%
----------------------------------------------
Average = 3 seasons = 0.908 SV%

AARON DELL (30)
Cap Hit = $800,000 x 1 year
Traded = Nothing

2017-18 = 32 games = 0.916 SV%
2018-19 = 25 games = 0.886 SV%
2019-20 = 33 games = 0.907 SV%
----------------------------------------------
Average = 3 seasons = 0.906 SV%
14 oct à 16 h 21
#135
Romanov for Calder
Rejoint: jui 2020
Messages: 2,350
Mentions "j'aime": 931
Quoting: Trickster
I bet Price goes to Seattle and Allen and Primeau is the goalie setup after.


LOL we ain’t leaving Pricey unprotected
rollie1967 a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 16 h 26
#136
Hugh Hefner of CF
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 5,116
Mentions "j'aime": 3,092
Quoting: HabsFan9
LOL we ain’t leaving Pricey unprotected


Time will tell.
14 oct à 16 h 41
#137
Rejoint: déc 2017
Messages: 2,454
Mentions "j'aime": 1,055
In my opinion, this extension has no bearing on whether or not Allen will be a member of the Canadiens moving forward. I believe MB is anticipating the goalie market will heat up in the future and it's clearly a buyers market right now. Smart. Excellent foresight.
jpsnow13 a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 19 h 04
#138
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 5,747
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Quoting: drewjenkins
It just got even harder to sign all the UFA's next year.

Terrible and unnecessary given the circumstances.


We aren't going to sign all of the UFA's next year. That's established
14 oct à 19 h 04
#139
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 5,747
Mentions "j'aime": 2,082
Quoting: drewjenkins
JAKE ALLEN (30)
Cap Hit = $3,400,000 x 3 years (average)
Traded = 3rd + 7th round picks (2020)

2017-18 = 59 games = 0.906 SV%
2018-19 = 46 games = 0.905 SV%
2019-20 = 24 games = 0.927 SV%
----------------------------------------------
Average = 3 seasons = 0.908 SV%

AARON DELL (30)
Cap Hit = $800,000 x 1 year
Traded = Nothing

2017-18 = 32 games = 0.916 SV%
2018-19 = 25 games = 0.886 SV%
2019-20 = 33 games = 0.907 SV%
----------------------------------------------
Average = 3 seasons = 0.906 SV%


Congrats, you've proved that Allen is a mediocre starting goalie and an elite backup. You proved Dell is a mediocre backup.
14 oct à 19 h 17
#140
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 446
Mentions "j'aime": 185
Quoting: HabsForEver
We aren't going to sign all of the UFA's next year. That's established


We'll then. I guess the team will be much worse.
14 oct à 19 h 19
#141
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 5,747
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Quoting: drewjenkins
We'll then. I guess the team will be much worse.


Much worse than what? The team got twice as good over the offseason so I expect it to get worse. Losing Tatar or Danault is a given
14 oct à 20 h 09
#142
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 215
Mentions "j'aime": 160
Quoting: HabsForEver
Allen has been a very good goalie, he just isn't a 55+ starter type of guy. If he was, you wouldn't get him for a 3rd round pick.


He has below average career numbers, even after putting up a career best season as a back up.

I do think backup (bordering on 1B) is the right role for him, but had Montreal been patient, or aggressive, they get the asset to take the contract.
14 oct à 20 h 12
#143
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 5,747
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Quoting: Danny12357
He has below average career numbers, even after putting up a career best season as a back up.

I do think backup (bordering on 1B) is the right role for him, but had Montreal been patient, or aggressive, they get the asset to take the contract.


He has below average career numbers because he was the starter. We aren't expecting him to be a start nor are we paying him too be one.
14 oct à 20 h 13
#144
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 215
Mentions "j'aime": 160
Quoting: Dotz789
The part that doesn’t do it for me is he’s set to make 4.3M this upcoming season from his previous contract and then 2.8M for two more years. Not quite sure why MTL would want to keep him on the books for two extra years. I could see the re-signing for 1 but not 2 plus when you have other guys you’re trying to keep and sign. Having 13M+ tied up in two goalies isn’t great cap management. Seattle expansion draft is next summer ...


I don't love the allocation either, but Price's contract is done, you can't make it less awful by not addressing the fact that he is no longer an elite #1 goalie, and no longer capable of playing 80% of the games. Allen at $2.8M for 2 years after the season he just had isn't a terrible way to alleviate that issue. The problem isn't Allen's extension (although I hate that they gave up an asset to get him when that contract should have gotten the Habs an asset to take), it's Price's contract. $13M+ allocated to net is bad, but it isn't Allen's contract that is the problem, and once that is already on the books, I don't think you can ignore the back up situation.
14 oct à 20 h 33
#145
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 215
Mentions "j'aime": 160
Quoting: HabsForEver
He has below average career numbers because he was the starter. We aren't expecting him to be a start nor are we paying him too be one.


Allen's contract this season is bad, St. Louis was in a bind, by trying to get ahead of the Market, Bergevin paid a price that he didn't have to. He could easily have forced St. Louis into paying an asset to move Allen, and they could have gotten just as capable a back up with nothing more than cap space.

The issue isn't Allen on his own though. It's his rapid approach this offseason. Montreal had tonnes of cap space, several players on expiring contracts, tonnes of picks. They could easily have waited to see how this unknow flat cap market shaped up, and done really well for themselves. Toews was just moved for two 2nds, Schmidt for a 3rd, several teams have good RFAs that could be offersheeted, or pressured into trading, and there are still decent UFAs on the market. Montreal could retained salary on some expiring assets, making for very good assets in the trade market, and filled holes with value signings, and well below market trades.

Instead, they blew their cap space on paying an asset for Jake Allen, using a big trade chip to overpay Josh Anderson on a risky long term deal, and traded a pick to get the signing rights to a defensemen who is a 3rd pair guy at best, all so they could massively overpay him on a 4 year deal. This was a massive opportunity, and Bergevin's biggest coup was getting Toffoli.

Bergevin must feel like this team's window is the next 2-3 years, and maybe he's been given a short leash so it's going for broke. Either way, this team's cap is very poorly managed. If the young players are good enough to actually make them contenders in the next 2-3 years, having Edmundson, Petry, Anderson, Price, and Weber on their current deals when you have to pay them is going to force them to take a step back.

This team is probably better next year than it was last year, but that might still only make them a bubble team, and they are betting that they are much better than that, I just don't see it.
rollie1967 a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 20 h 46
#146
Rejoint: jan 2019
Messages: 5,747
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Quoting: Danny12357
Allen's contract this season is bad, St. Louis was in a bind, by trying to get ahead of the Market, Bergevin paid a price that he didn't have to. He could easily have forced St. Louis into paying an asset to move Allen, and they could have gotten just as capable a back up with nothing more than cap space.

The issue isn't Allen on his own though. It's his rapid approach this offseason. Montreal had tonnes of cap space, several players on expiring contracts, tonnes of picks. They could easily have waited to see how this unknow flat cap market shaped up, and done really well for themselves. Toews was just moved for two 2nds, Schmidt for a 3rd, several teams have good RFAs that could be offersheeted, or pressured into trading, and there are still decent UFAs on the market. Montreal could retained salary on some expiring assets, making for very good assets in the trade market, and filled holes with value signings, and well below market trades.

Instead, they blew their cap space on paying an asset for Jake Allen, using a big trade chip to overpay Josh Anderson on a risky long term deal, and traded a pick to get the signing rights to a defensemen who is a 3rd pair guy at best, all so they could massively overpay him on a 4 year deal. This was a massive opportunity, and Bergevin's biggest coup was getting Toffoli.

Bergevin must feel like this team's window is the next 2-3 years, and maybe he's been given a short leash so it's going for broke. Either way, this team's cap is very poorly managed. If the young players are good enough to actually make them contenders in the next 2-3 years, having Edmundson, Petry, Anderson, Price, and Weber on their current deals when you have to pay them is going to force them to take a step back.

This team is probably better next year than it was last year, but that might still only make them a bubble team, and they are betting that they are much better than that, I just don't see it.


We paid a 3rd round pick and still had 8 picks in this draft. It's not like we needed that 3rd round pick. It's never good to give up assets, but Bergevin has proven he can get draft picks quite easy so losing one isn't a concern. Allen's cap space this year doesn't matter as our team is already set.

Bergevin did all of his moves early because he wasn't sure how the offseason would've went. Obviously hindsight is great, but Bergevin doesn't have that. He accomplished what he wanted too early so he didn't have to get into bidding wars. We also don't know who wants to play in Montreal so you can check half of those goalies off the list before even making an offer.

I don't agree with you whatsoever. We traded a 3rd round pick for a very good back up goalie, Domi played on the 4th line in the playoffs and clearly didn't have a spot on the team so I don't know what kind of value he truly had. Guys like Anderson aren't available for trade very often so you give up whatever you have to and you sign him to whatever is fair. If Anderson can put up 25+ goals and 40+ points, this contract is a steal all day long. There's risk to the signing, but when you miss the playoffs 3/5 years, you have to take some risks. Edmundson had a bad year on Carolina, but that's because he wasn't given the opportunity and was forced to play a defined role, If you ignore his season on Carolina and was judging him based on how he played on St.Louis, this contract would be a steal. Again, it's another risk, but if you want to become good, you have to take chances.

You're acting like these guys can't be traded, if it comes down to somebody like Ylonen becoming a top player in the league, you can easily trade somebody for nothing and a spot (and cap space) open up.
14 oct à 20 h 53
#147
Rejoint: mar 2017
Messages: 446
Mentions "j'aime": 185
Quoting: HabsForEver
Much worse than what? The team got twice as good over the offseason so I expect it to get worse. Losing Tatar or Danault is a given


Domi is better than anyone acquired ... "twice as good" lol
14 oct à 20 h 56
#148
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 215
Mentions "j'aime": 160
Quoting: HabsForEver
We paid a 3rd round pick and still had 8 picks in this draft. It's not like we needed that 3rd round pick. It's never good to give up assets, but Bergevin has proven he can get draft picks quite easy so losing one isn't a concern. Allen's cap space this year doesn't matter as our team is already set.

Bergevin did all of his moves early because he wasn't sure how the offseason would've went. Obviously hindsight is great, but Bergevin doesn't have that. He accomplished what he wanted too early so he didn't have to get into bidding wars. We also don't know who wants to play in Montreal so you can check half of those goalies off the list before even making an offer.

I don't agree with you whatsoever. We traded a 3rd round pick for a very good back up goalie, Domi played on the 4th line in the playoffs and clearly didn't have a spot on the team so I don't know what kind of value he truly had. Guys like Anderson aren't available for trade very often so you give up whatever you have to and you sign him to whatever is fair. If Anderson can put up 25+ goals and 40+ points, this contract is a steal all day long. There's risk to the signing, but when you miss the playoffs 3/5 years, you have to take some risks. Edmundson had a bad year on Carolina, but that's because he wasn't given the opportunity and was forced to play a defined role, If you ignore his season on Carolina and was judging him based on how he played on St.Louis, this contract would be a steal. Again, it's another risk, but if you want to become good, you have to take chances.

You're acting like these guys can't be traded, if it comes down to somebody like Ylonen becoming a top player in the league, you can easily trade somebody for nothing and a spot (and cap space) open up.


Banking on being able to just trade away awful contracts is an absolutely terrible plan right now.

Also, it didn't take hindsight to see there were going to be opportunities created by a flat cap and upcoming expansion draft. It is literally why I hated the Allen trade from day one, and my wording was even that it's not just the pick, it's the strategy it implies.

Bergevin is rushing a rebuild before his team even showed it was a near playoff team. They probably are now, but they aren't a contender as currently constructed, and now they have a lot of money tied up to players who probably aren't going to be worth their contracts right when young players are going to need new ones. Ask the Canucks and Islanders how that feels.
rollie1967 a aimé ceci.
14 oct à 21 h 04
#149
Rejoint: jan 2020
Messages: 96
Mentions "j'aime": 51
Quoting: seb
I didn't think of that, it is a good reason. But Marc Bergevin plays a dangerous game giving all those extensions to guys that have never played a game with the Canadiens. What is going to happen if the line of Gallagher, Danault, Tatar, arguably their best line, all walk to free agency? This is a scary game.


Now you have a respond. Gally just signed
14 oct à 21 h 07
#150
Rejoint: jan 2020
Messages: 96
Mentions "j'aime": 51
Quoting: Dotz789
The part that doesn’t do it for me is he’s set to make 4.3M this upcoming season from his previous contract and then 2.8M for two more years. Not quite sure why MTL would want to keep him on the books for two extra years. I could see the re-signing for 1 but not 2 plus when you have other guys you’re trying to keep and sign. Having 13M+ tied up in two goalies isn’t great cap management. Seattle expansion draft is next summer ...


Khudobin is considered as a gold bacup and he makes 3.4 million. Allen stole the job of Binnington during the playoffs and had a .927 % that's pretty darn good for 600k less than Khudobin
HabsForEver et CLR a aimé ceci.
 
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