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Baertschi

Créé par: MNBassman
Équipe: 2020-21 Wild du Minnesota
Date de création initiale: 12 oct. 2020
Publié: 12 oct. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Does Rossi allow the Wild to move Dumba for a high end wing instead of a center?

Assume subsequent moves are made for this to work.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
2750 000 $
CRÉÉANSCAP HIT
Rossi, Marco
3925 000 $
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12 oct. 2020 à 14 h 54
#1
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Minnesota coming at you with five lines!
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12 oct. 2020 à 14 h 54
#2
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I’m concerned about the price tag of his next deal, right as we need to resign the crop of young guys. I’d love it but it’s a stretch for all involved and the timing is off.
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12 oct. 2020 à 14 h 55
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MNBassman
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Quoting: EccE
Minnesota coming at you with five lines!


Assume subsequent moves are made to make this work.
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12 oct. 2020 à 14 h 58
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MNBassman
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Quoting: jnowariak
I’m concerned about the price tag of his next deal, right as we need to resign the crop of young guys. I’d love it but it’s a stretch for all involved and the timing is off.


True, but the thought of having Fiala, Boeser, Kaprizov, and Boldy as the Wild’s top 6 wings intrigues the heck out of me!
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12 oct. 2020 à 15 h 0
#5
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Quoting: MNBassman
Assume subsequent moves are made to make this work.


Of course, I'm just joking. And Bärtschi could be also buried to the minors.
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12 oct. 2020 à 15 h 0
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Regarding your description, my opinion is yes. Remember we drafted Khusnutdinov as well, so center is now somewhat deep in our prospect pool. I don't think Vancouver does it though
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12 oct. 2020 à 15 h 5
#7
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Quoting: TanSor
Regarding your description, my opinion is yes. Remember we drafted Khusnutdinov as well, so center is now somewhat deep in our prospect pool. I don't think Vancouver does it though


Center in the prospect pool, we still need another top 6 guy when Rossi is full time top 6. I’m still holding out that Glass gets moved or we make a cheap run at Strome.
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12 oct. 2020 à 15 h 18
#8
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Center is not a deep position for the Wild in any way that matters. Rossi hasn't even played an NHL game, and while he may be a relatively safe bet for top 6 center, he isn't there yet. The thought that having Khusnutdinov makes us deep at center is laughable. That guy may never make the NHL, let alone be a top 6 center there. He has skill and upside, but he is a long way from a sure thing.
12 oct. 2020 à 15 h 33
#9
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Quoting: jnowariak
Center in the prospect pool, we still need another top 6 guy when Rossi is full time top 6. I’m still holding out that Glass gets moved or we make a cheap run at Strome.


Sure but if Guerin is building for the future then I think center is less of a need than it once was considering our prospect pool's recent influx. I'm not saying it's no longer a need and my preference is still to move Dumba for a center if he's moved, but it's less of a priority now than it was.
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12 oct. 2020 à 15 h 35
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Quoting: TanSor
Sure but if Guerin is building for the future then I think center is less of a need than it once was considering our prospect pool's recent influx


If Guerin is building the future, trade Dumba for a package of prospects/picks, not Boeser.
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12 oct. 2020 à 15 h 38
#11
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Quoting: Caerii
If Guerin is building the future, trade Dumba for a package of prospects/picks, not Boeser.


Boeser is 23 years old. He's just barely scratching his prime...
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12 oct. 2020 à 15 h 43
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Quoting: TanSor
Boeser is 23 years old. He's just barely scratching his prime...


And by the time the future Guerin is building is here, he'll be 27-28 and out of his prime. If you're going for it now, you can trade for Boeser. If you're building around guys like Rossi, Boldy, Khusnutdinov (gag), you don't add another soon to be 24 year old winger. You already have Fiala and Kaprizov to fill that role of "veteran" wingers.
12 oct. 2020 à 15 h 46
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Quoting: Caerii
And by the time the future Guerin is building is here, he'll be 27-28 and out of his prime. If you're going for it now, you can trade for Boeser. If you're building around guys like Rossi, Boldy, Khusnutdinov (gag), you don't add another soon to be 24 year old winger. You already have Fiala and Kaprizov to fill that role of "veteran" wingers.


So you have voiced that Rossi and Khusnutdinov are question marks, which I agree and I think it's justified to say center is still a need, but now you're saying if we're building for the future we should trade Dumba for more question marks instead of the established sniper who is just 23? Your logic is all over the place
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12 oct. 2020 à 15 h 47
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Quoting: Caerii
And by the time the future Guerin is building is here, he'll be 27-28 and out of his prime. If you're going for it now, you can trade for Boeser. If you're building around guys like Rossi, Boldy, Khusnutdinov (gag), you don't add another soon to be 24 year old winger. You already have Fiala and Kaprizov to fill that role of "veteran" wingers.


This is a pretty cynical view of what the future holds. If we could get bowser at his current deal for 4-5 years Boeser makes sooooo much sense. The core in Minnesota is the defense, who are 30 or older. Guerin doubles down on that when he resigned Brodin. We are closer than you might think, but we will need a bit of luck to make it happen.
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12 oct. 2020 à 16 h 3
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Quoting: TanSor
So you have voiced that Rossi and Khusnutdinov are question marks, which I agree and I think it's justified to say center is still a need, but now you're saying if we're building for the future we should trade Dumba for more question marks instead of the established sniper who is just 23? Your logic is all over the place


Yes because we still need centers. If you have the centers, or can get them now, and compete with them now, Dumba for Boeser makes sense. If you still need centers and want to build for the future, you trade Dumba for assets than can turn into those centers. Logic isn't all over the place at all.

Quoting: jnowariak
This is a pretty cynical view of what the future holds. If we could get bowser at his current deal for 4-5 years Boeser makes sooooo much sense. The core in Minnesota is the defense, who are 30 or older. Guerin doubles down on that when he resigned Brodin. We are closer than you might think, but we will need a bit of luck to make it happen.


How is it cynical? Because I'm noting that Rossi still isn't a top 6 center and Khusnutdinov has a high chance of never getting there?
12 oct. 2020 à 16 h 7
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Modifié 12 oct. 2020 à 16 h 16
Quoting: jnowariak
Center in the prospect pool, we still need another top 6 guy when Rossi is full time top 6. I’m still holding out that Glass gets moved or we make a cheap run at Strome.


This 100%, this is why we need someone to hold down the fort until Rossi is ready to take over as 1C. I personally don't like either Strome for the role.

Our best options post draft now are Danault, Stepan, or Stastny. And Stastny is already off the board since he's headed back to Winnipeg.

Unless GMBG can work a miracle and land us Cirelli than those two are our best options. Both can be acquired as long as Dumba is moved out and have one year left on their contracts. Of the two I'd say Danault is our best option as he's both better and cheaper than Stepan.

When Dumba is moved, if he went for a winger I wouldn't be opposed to it now given our newfound center prospect depth and if we could land Danault without giving up Dumba in the process. I would try and move him for a cheaper player, good center prospect like Krebs/Glass-Frost, and a 1st rounder in next years draft. PHI for Ghost, Frost, and their 1st seems the most ideal.

Ghost is $2M cheaper than Dumba, could revive his career playing next to Brodin, can stop-gap for Addison until he's ready, and gives us added flexibility in dealing with the ED. 4-4-1 route, we can protect Soucy. 7-3-1 route both Ghost and Soucy get exposed and we keep whoever isn't taken further insulating us ontop of our new found goalie flexibility.

Frost gives us yet another center prospect with top six potential. Between one of Khovanov, Khusnutdinov, and Frost, there's a good chance one of the three hits as a legitimate 2C behind Rossi as our future 1C.

The more 1st's we have next year the better.
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12 oct. 2020 à 16 h 20
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Quoting: Caerii
Yes because we still need centers. If you have the centers, or can get them now, and compete with them now, Dumba for Boeser makes sense. If you still need centers and want to build for the future, you trade Dumba for assets than can turn into those centers. Logic isn't all over the place at all.



How is it cynical? Because I'm noting that Rossi still isn't a top 6 center and Khusnutdinov has a high chance of never getting there?


I think it’s cynical because Boeser is, and will continue to be, an elite goal scorer into his 30s. He would help this team as long as he was a part of it. As far as Marat is concerned, he’s as good a prospect as any and he adds a huge boost to our depth at center. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him in a wild sweater in 2 years.

End of the story is that we need depth everywhere. A Glass/Frost/Studnicka is essential to this organization in addition to Rossi because we need the talent now to grow into its own in a year or two. You’ll notice Guerin said “young player” and a pick, not prospect and a pick. He wants to ramp up quickly and he needs to in order to get the value from the d core.
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12 oct. 2020 à 16 h 24
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Quoting: Caerii
Yes because we still need centers. If you have the centers, or can get them now, and compete with them now, Dumba for Boeser makes sense. If you still need centers and want to build for the future, you trade Dumba for assets than can turn into those centers. Logic isn't all over the place at all.



How is it cynical? Because I'm noting that Rossi still isn't a top 6 center and Khusnutdinov has a high chance of never getting there?


Your logic based on your Rossi and Khusnutdinov opinion is that they're still question marks (and I agree), but where I lose you is when you say instead of trading for a very young right shot sniper (which this team does still need) you say we should move Dumba for picks/prospects (ie more question marks).

I agree with you, we do still need centers. But if we can get Boeser for Dumba I make that trade every time now where as 2 weeks ago I probably wouldn't have.
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12 oct. 2020 à 16 h 25
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Quoting: RazWild
This 100%, this is why we need someone to hold down the fort until Rossi is ready to take over as 1C. I personally don't like either Strome for the role.

Our best options post draft now are Danault, Stepan, or Stastny. And Stastny is already off the board since he's headed back to Winnipeg.

Unless GMBG can work a miracle and land us Cirelli than those two are our best options. Both can be acquired as long as Dumba is moved out and have one year left on their contracts. Of the two I'd say Danault is our best option as he's both better and cheaper than Stepan.

When Dumba is moved, if he went for a winger I wouldn't be opposed to it now given our newfound center prospect depth and if we could land Danault without giving up Dumba in the process. I would try and move him for a cheaper player, good center prospect like Krebs/Glass-Frost, and a 1st rounder in next years draft. PHI for Ghost, Frost, and their 1st seems the most ideal.

Ghost is $2M cheaper than Dumba, could revive his career playing next to Brodin, can stop-gap for Addison until he's ready, and gives us added flexibility in dealing with the ED. 4-4-1 route, we can protect Soucy. 7-3-1 route both Ghost and Soucy get exposed and we keep whoever isn't taken further insulating us ontop of our new found goalie flexibility.

Frost gives us yet another center prospect with top six potential. Between one of Khovanov, Khusnutdinov, and Frost, there's a good chance one of the three hits as a legitimate 2C behind Rossi as our future 1C.

The more 1st's we have next year the better.


All of this. The fit in PHI really works now and Frost is the level of player that’s on our timeline. I know you, and others, aren’t big on Strome but I think it’s a high risk high reward scenario that only benefits us. But I agree 100% we need a stop gap.
12 oct. 2020 à 17 h 8
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Quoting: jnowariak
Center in the prospect pool, we still need another top 6 guy when Rossi is full time top 6. I’m still holding out that Glass gets moved or we make a cheap run at Strome.


I assume you mean Ryan Strome when you say ‘Strome’. I am all for him being a placeholder at C until a prospect like Khovanov or Khusnutdinov is ready, or if a guy like Barkov becomes available somehow. The price for Strome would have to be right though.
12 oct. 2020 à 17 h 16
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MNBassman
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Great discussion everyone! Lots of differs perspectives, ideas, and insights!

A couple of things...

All of you (IM humble O) are underestimating Ek’s current value and especially his ceiling, but i know i have a higher opinion about him than most.
Having the wings the Wild (would) have by adding Boeser would make Rossi’s ans the rest of the C prospects transition to the NHL much less pressure packed and help them grow their confidence to aide them in their long-term development.
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12 oct. 2020 à 17 h 32
#22
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Quoting: MNBassman
Great discussion everyone! Lots of differs perspectives, ideas, and insights!

A couple of things...

All of you (IM humble O) are underestimating Ek’s current value and especially his ceiling, but i know i have a higher opinion about him than most.
Having the wings the Wild (would) have by adding Boeser would make Rossi’s ans the rest of the C prospects transition to the NHL much less pressure packed and help them grow their confidence to aide them in their long-term development.


I don’t doubt Ek could be a low end 2C and put up 40 points but I’d rather think of him as a high end 3C on a contender. Love the guy and hope we lock him up long term. I don’t think he’s top 6 on a cup team, but he’s a reason a team wins the cup.
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12 oct. 2020 à 17 h 47
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Still not touching that trade. Next year MN has 1 NHL center (JEE) and 2 (Rask, Strum) maybe's as NHL centers. Yucky to re-signing any of the current rental centers we have.

This is a GMCF move of trading for or signing any big name wing on the market when Koivu is your 1C and Granlund is your 2C.
12 oct. 2020 à 20 h 2
#24
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MNBassman
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Quoting: jnowariak
I don’t doubt Ek could be a low end 2C and put up 40 points but I’d rather think of him as a high end 3C on a contender. Love the guy and hope we lock him up long term. I don’t think he’s top 6 on a cup team, but he’s a reason a team wins the cup.


He put up 29 points in 62 games last year with 4 seconds of PP time/game. I sincerely believe he has 60 point/year potential if given the right opportunities.
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12 oct. 2020 à 20 h 3
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Quoting: wabit
Still not touching that trade. Next year MN has 1 NHL center (JEE) and 2 (Rask, Strum) maybe's as NHL centers. Yucky to re-signing any of the current rental centers we have.

This is a GMCF move of trading for or signing any big name wing on the market when Koivu is your 1C and Granlund is your 2C.


You worry WAY too much about next year! 2-3 years from now is what the Wild should be focusing on.
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