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Why does Andreas Johnsson have no value but Josh Anderson does

Équipe: 2020-21 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 28 sept. 2020
Publié: 28 sept. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Both guys had injury prone down years after having great seasons the year before. Johnsson had 21 points in 43 games, just under half a PPG while Anderson had 4 points in 26 games, less PPG than the average 4th liner, yet the consensus seems to be that Johnsson is worth a 3rd max and Anderson is worth a 2nd minimum. Why though? I know Anderson is physical and is an RFA but he only has 1 year of RFA left which takes a 1 year prove it deal off the table and hasn't produced outside of Panarin
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  1. Anderson, Josh [Droits de RFA]
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28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 21
#1
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Because Johnsson is a leaf (everyone knows the leaf players are garbage and no one wants them) even though Dubas will snake a 1st for Johnsson
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28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 21
#2
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I think it's the cap hit. People may assume that Anderson's cap hit < $3M
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28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 22
#3
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Would you rather have Johnsson or Anderson on the Leafs?
28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 22
#4
Au-revoir Dorion
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because if the leafs want to move Johnsson teams know they want to dump his cap hit which knocks his value down imo. Anderson is also better all around when healthy
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28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 23
#5
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I think you pretty much answered your own question. Anderson has produced at a higher level before when compared to Johnsson. Anderson provides physicality and can be a bit of a pest which isn’t easy to find while also being a contributor
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28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 23
#6
JonesIS(not)aStarter
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Well, I think Johnsson is making a bit more than Anderson will sign for. Anderson also plays an effective style of hockey when he's healthy because he's shown to play physical and contribute in other ways if he's not scoring. Overall I think he's a prime candidate because he presents a low-risk/high-reward option that Johnsson just sadly doesn't have.
28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 23
#7
GM Hockeysaurus Rex
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They are same value tbh..

Its one of the big wonders for me on this site.. but generally Johnsson isnt big hit go brr guy so he is less valueable.
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28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 24
#8
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Quoting: Borocop
because if the leafs want to move Johnsson teams know they want to dump his cap hit which knocks his value down imo. Anderson is also better all around when healthy


That what was said about Kapenen and whoop got a 1st and a prospect - at this point with Kapenen the Leafs have more cap flexibility and no actual need to move a player on a good contract for anything less then full value
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28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 24
#9
Former Hockey Fan
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It’s mostly because a bunch of habs fans are idiots, and think that all big guys must have a lot of value.
28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 24
#10
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Quoting: etpeck
I think you pretty much answered your own question. Anderson has produced at a higher level before when compared to Johnsson. Anderson provides physicality and can be a bit of a pest which isn’t easy to find while also being a contributor


Johnsson had a higher PPG in 18/19
28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 25
#11
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Cause TML homers over-valuate their Players, so homers from other Teams have to diminish it.....
28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 25
#12
What in tarnation
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Imo both are worth a low 2nd. It's just that the cap is tight in the league and Johnsson might be a bit overpaid for the 3rd line role, while no one knows yet how much Anderson is gonna cost. Also Anderson has the edge due to his grinder like playing style which is needed in playoff hockey.
28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 25
#13
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Quoting: Borocop
because if the leafs want to move Johnsson teams know they want to dump his cap hit which knocks his value down imo. Anderson is also better all around when healthy


I'd agree but the market hasn't shown that 1 bit. Leafs got a boat load for Kapanen and the Rangers were able to dump Staal for just a 2nd
28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 26
#14
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Yeah, this is something I've never understood. Johnsson had a great year last year (which was his rookie year) and he was solid while he wasn't injured this year. He's 25 (which isn't THAT old) and still has good top-six line potential.
28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 26
#15
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I mean they both have value, and it’s only one round difference (Johnsson=3rd, Anderson=2nd, maybe +C prospect). The main differences are that Anderson is physical, a right shot, has three consecutive years around the 20 goal mark as opposed to one, and he’s on a team that doesn’t need to trade him (Leafs likely can’t afford Johnsson if they try to improve their blueline)
28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 36
#16
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The thing is, though, that the consensus on here does not matter in the slightest. None of us know what kinds of deals are out there, how players are valued around the league, who any particular GM might like, etc... We can speculate and make reasonable assumptions, but none of us know. It was a relatively popular opinion on here that Kapanen couldn't get a 1st. And while many (including myself) refuted that, I don't think anyone expected the type of return he got. So while stuff like this can be frustrating, I wouldn't be too concerned about it, tbh.
28 sept. 2020 à 15 h 46
#17
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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Yeah, I don't get all these Josh Anderson love, especially in a trade where no cap being sent to the new team.
28 sept. 2020 à 16 h 1
#18
exo2769
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Modifié 28 sept. 2020 à 16 h 8
I have a bit stronger feelings than what I've read above. That doesn't mean everyone else is wrong and I am right. It doesn't mean that AT ALL. It's just my thoughts and support as to why. It also doesn't mean AJ can't come back next year and produce where Kap left. That's entirely possible too. I don't have a crystal ball.

While the $3.4M contract isn't great...I think people need to understand why it's a bad contract. I don't view these two players as true comps.

A.) Josh Anderson is in his 4th year and AJ's in his 2nd. Just like I wouldn't give Kubalik or Holl massive contracts...AJ got a relatively large contract after 1 year of meh play...It worries me. 1 year of 20/20 is not worth $3.4M 4 year IMO.
B.) While some might point to the higher point total for Josh last year...I wouldn't. 4 points is nothing. Bounce of the puck here or there could be anything.
C.) Josh is a little bigger and more physical. Built for playoff hockey. I can't ignore that.
D.) What I think is a VERY BIG deal...is that AJ played 86% of the time with Auston Matthews and his 2nd most common line mate was William Nylander. BUT Josh played less than 12% of his time with Pierre Luc Dubois. That's a MASSIVE difference. Boone Jenner is NOT a top 40 center man in the NHL. Matthews in my opinion is the 3rd or 4th best center in all of hockey. So, yeah...AJ's the recipient of an offensive system that inflates his stats. He's statistically LITERALLY the 4th most assisted player in the entire NHL. He doesn't drive play. Josh Anderson has a much greater responsibility and generates similar results.
E.) and he SHOULD cost less.
28 sept. 2020 à 16 h 38
#19
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Quoting: exo2769
I have a bit stronger feelings than what I've read above. That doesn't mean everyone else is wrong and I am right. It doesn't mean that AT ALL. It's just my thoughts and support as to why. It also doesn't mean AJ can't come back next year and produce where Kap left. That's entirely possible too. I don't have a crystal ball.

While the $3.4M contract isn't great...I think people need to understand why it's a bad contract. I don't view these two players as true comps.

A.) Josh Anderson is in his 4th year and AJ's in his 2nd. Just like I wouldn't give Kubalik or Holl massive contracts...AJ got a relatively large contract after 1 year of meh play...It worries me. 1 year of 20/20 is not worth $3.4M 4 year IMO.
B.) While some might point to the higher point total for Josh last year...I wouldn't. 4 points is nothing. Bounce of the puck here or there could be anything.
C.) Josh is a little bigger and more physical. Built for playoff hockey. I can't ignore that.
D.) What I think is a VERY BIG deal...is that AJ played 86% of the time with Auston Matthews and his 2nd most common line mate was William Nylander. BUT Josh played less than 12% of his time with Pierre Luc Dubois. That's a MASSIVE difference. Boone Jenner is NOT a top 40 center man in the NHL. Matthews in my opinion is the 3rd or 4th best center in all of hockey. So, yeah...AJ's the recipient of an offensive system that inflates his stats. He's statistically LITERALLY the 4th most assisted player in the entire NHL. He doesn't drive play. Josh Anderson has a much greater responsibility and generates similar results.
E.) and he SHOULD cost less.


Everything you've said here has some validity - if I'm looking at Josh Anderson though I'm seeing an outlier year where he performed very well as for the rest of his seasons it's very bottom 6 production , sure size and physicality are a plus but so is the speed and skill of Johnsson - Johnsson could be a touch Overpaid based on this past season only as for his rookie season at 20/20 that is top 6 production any way you look at it and would warrant a 4+ million per year contract - he is signed he has been paid (though bonuses) he will cost a team 2.6 million , now maybe you can get Josh Anderson for a single year at 2-3 Million and then he's a UFA and if the outlier year is his real production he's in the 4-5 range after he becomes a UFA - IMO both players bring something of Value to the table I do believe Johnsson would hold more trade Value simply because he is already under contract he is cheap and he can play up and down the line up - Andersen is not signed and has a fairly substantial QO in order to keep him past Oct 09 2020 there is no real value there
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