Rangers decline.

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No. No they are not. This might not even be a playoff team. Very weak down the middle. Not sold on the bottom 6 at all. Other than when the top D pairing is on the ice we'll be "Toronto bad" in our own end.

Anisimov is not a bad player but we just traded a 2nd to dump around that much money. I feel Georgiev is worth 2 second rounders and DAL pick is very late and we're taking on Anismov's contract. I wouldn't mind a deal centered around Brendan Smith and Artem Anisimov.

This team is a fringe playoff team at best, but is way worse off than they are right now. Those D additions are horrible, and trading the 3rd overall pick is inexcusable.

After seeing how much it cost to get rid of Staal from the Rangers i think Turris is going to cost an additional 2021,2022 picks. No 1st rounders as i think Nashville wouldn't do it (They'd just eat the 2M x forever buyout). Possible 2nd conditional picks (Become 3rd rounders if Turris gets 45+ Points or something alon those lines)

Agree on weak at center. I thought about swapping Kerfoot to 3C and Brown to 3L or 4C, but thought I'd be optimistic that Brown is ready, and with two great checking wings to cover for him, pushes for the Calder trophy.

Agree the defense isn't a defense, but an offense. Definitely see the Toronto parallel. If only they had a goalie like Andersen to bail them out. Oh wait....

Great idea. Smith for Anisimov improves the above defense, and the term is the same. At two 2nds, I think Ottawa can find a more established goalie.

I'd assume so, but they might value the youth and ceiling. Price is high because he's not technically being "shopped".

If NYR is ready to play Georgiev, would Anisimov work for a half-retained Lundqvist? Obviously he wouldn't waive to Ottawa before the above trades, but after they have Marner and Turris, it might look like a better chance to contend than NYR can offer him this year?

Fair points. For all the Senators fans who get on here and whine that Karlsson's gone, it's nice to hear one call out a couple of similar style players for focusing too much on offense. I kinda think on a team that lets defensemen rush the puck, rather than focus on defense, OEL and Leddy might outscore Karlsson this year, but I agree they give up too many breakaways sometimes.

Johnson quietly and unremarkably eats a few minutes, and makes a few hits. I definitely give him negative trade value because he is declining and has little idea how to play with the puck, which one now expects for $3M.

What would you think if it were the Ottawa pick?

My thought process here is that the Sens have publicly expressed a desire to keep to the salary floor, but the actual budget of the above team is just $65M. I think with something vaguely like this, they might win a few rounds, maybe even win a Cup, and then go right back to rebuilding next summer, before getting stuck with Marner's next July bonus. If they only give a 6th overall pick to rent Marner for a year, they can probably flip him next summer for a top ten pick and a prospect, and only end up paying him $700K. https://www.capfriendly.com/players/mitchell-marner

Seems like a good fit for a budget-conscious team that likes to occasionally make a little noise.

100% Rangers accept. Lundqvist is expendable.

Awesome! Since the goal of this post is that the Sens steal one quick Cup and then go right back to rebuilding before they get stuck paying Marner's next summer signing bonus, Lundqvist is a much better fit. They have Gustavsson and Hogberg developing in Belleville as their own goalies of the future.

Would a post-buyout Wennberg help at 3C? There aren't a lot of options in UFA.

This is a big No! from the Sens on all point of views... Melnyk and Dorion stated on multiple occasions that they would go for a rebuild the old way and that they would keep #3 & #5 to anchor that rebuild. And with a draft similar to 2003 for 2022, you may want to be patient with your "contending stuff"

And FYI this team still aint contending. The only two players that I'd want in there would be Panik and Georgiev. We need to find some centers more that wingers.

https://i.redd.it/nksnnt34rpo41.jpg

Thanks. My plan here is to steal one Cup and then go right back to rebuilding before having to actually pay Marner. https://www.capfriendly.com/players/mitchell-marner

Agree on needing centers, but there aren't any, and teams like WSH and WPG do okay without them.

I don't know any Sens fans who would rather still have Karlsson, that trade is very clearly a huge W for Ottawa. Also comparing Karlsson at any point to Nick Leddy and OEL in recent years is just borderline disrespectful. At his worst he was never as bad as he was reported to be, he was always average to slightly below average. OEL and Leddy get straight up shelled defensively. Also saying Leddy could outscore him is flat out ridiculous. The last two seasons, Karlsson has put up points totals close to Leddy at his peak, but he's done it while missing like 30 games a season. For all the woes about his decline, Karl has paced for 70 and 58 points in his last two seasons. He's just had nearly a full year to get as healthy as possible, I wouldn't be surprised to see him right back in the Norris conversation.

As for the thing about the Sens pick, there's no way Ottawa should be trading a top 5 pick. They're rebuilding, and you build through the draft. It doesn't make sense, the team has flat out said they won't do it, I don't know why anyone thinks it's a thing they should consider doing.

Pens probably wouldn’t trade Maniscalco right now. Really bad way to treat a guy who JUST signed here. He chose Pittsburgh as a NCAA UFA, gotta see what he is first.
Another equal prospect though, sure.

I think it's a fringe playoff team, would need Turris to return to form for it to be a fringe playoff team though and dont know if that happens.

Funniest thing would honestly be see Melnyk have to write that cheque to Marner every year, guaranteed it's late the first year

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/mitchell-marner
Marner only makes $700k until next July. I don't think Melnyk even has to put down his pina colada to sign that check. But Dorion certainly has to flip Marner next June for picks and prospects, let Andersen walk as a UFA, and get back to rebuilding.

eta: unless of course making this kind of an investment in established players causes the team to start selling out every game, increases TV and advertising revenues, and lets the team keep Marner and make money. Then they don't have to flip him and they just keep making the playoffs, while looking to upgrade at 2C next summer.

As for Turris, he finished last year stronger when they moved him back to a bigger role. I think playing middle six annoyed him, and say what you want about what that says about his character, but Ottawa could use him as a #1C, and Nashville could possibly use the cap space.

$700k for a year of Marner is a contract written as a love letter to teams trying to stay at the salary floor. I'm just enjoying the conversation about which team steps up.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/mitchell-marner

OEL is not as good as Karlsson, and will never be as good. The parallel is that with each of them, when their plus minus goes way negative, they get a lot of points, but when their plus minus goes even, they get fewer points. If you wanted 50 points out of OEL, he could give them to you. You'd just give up a lot of breakaways. If you wanted an 80 point defenseman, yeah, you'd want Karlsson or maybe Carlson rushing the puck every shift like they didn't have to play defense.

But OEL last year was -3, solid on the penalty kill, and IMHO his numbers took a dive because Arizona mistakenly made Phil Kessel the focus of an otherwise good power play.

Melnyk would avoid the 14 million cheque but there is still a 9.6 one that has to get paid next July and Melnyk would be in a bad mood that day

The additions outside of Marner are either expensive, overrated, or over the hill. Any team that has Turris, Jack Johnson and OEL In prominent roles while also expecting guys like DuClair, Branstrom, and Brown to take the next step isn’t a contender. OTT needs to stay the course, use the draft capital they have accumulated and let the existing prospects continue to develop not spend a bunch of money and draft capital to become a maybe playoff team.

Yes. The other 31 teams would know that Dorion was under ownership pressure to trade away Marner before next July. So Dorion would trade Marner away for, like, a 10th overall pick, an A- prospect, and a #4 defenseman next June.

Or.... another possibility: led back to the playoffs by an Ontario-raised star, the Senators sell out their arena, make tons of money, and either decide they can afford to keep Marner on their own, or at least show enough profit to attract a buyer committed to keeping the Sens competitive in Ottawa. That's the same goal as the rebuild, just they have a chance to get there quicker. Does it work? Maybe.

Plus minus is such a horrible stat for measuring anything, especially defensive play. It's especially useless for guys who play the ridiculous icetime those guys do. They're on the ice so much all situations, of course they're going to be on the ice for a lot of goals. The stat doesn't tell you anything about how they effect play.