Forums/Armchair-GM

Is this team a contender

Créé par: Eli
Date de création initiale: sep 27, 2020
Publié: 27 sep à 7 h 41
Équipe: 2020-21 Sénateurs d'Ottawa
Explications
Yes or no? And if so, how would you alter the picks in the trades to make them happen?
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
Brown, Connor43 500 000 $
Tierney, Chris33 300 000 $
Duclair, Anthony43 500 000 $
Paul, Nicholas21 500 000 $
Jaros, Christian2800 000 $
Englund, Andreas2800 000 $
Chlapik, Filip2800 000 $
Georgiev, Alexandar22 000 000 $
Transactions
OTT
  1. Georgiev, Alexandar [Droits de RFA]
NYR
  1. Anisimov, Artem
  2. 2020 2e round pick (DAL)
Détails additionnels:
Plays well with Panarin. Lets Rangers spread their offense over three lines
OTT
  1. Marner, Mitchell
  2. Andersen, Frederik
  3. Kerfoot, Alexander
Détails additionnels:
$4.35M in salary, after offseason signing bonuses are paid
TOR
  1. 2020 1e round pick (SJS)
  2. 2020 2e round pick (CBJ)
  3. 2020 3e round pick (WPG)
$19,393,000 in cap space to sign Pietrangelo, Hall, and a goalie, plus some great prospects
OTT
  1. Johnson, Jack
  2. Maniscalco, Joshua
  3. 2022 2e round pick (PIT)
PIT
  1. Nilsson, Anders
OTT
  1. Pánik, Richard
WSH
  1. 2020 4e round pick (OTT)
OTT
  1. Turris, Kyle
  2. 2020 2e round pick (NJD)
NSH
    Future considerations; etc
    OTT
    1. Ekman-Larsson, Oliver
    ARI
    1. Reilly, Mike
    2. White, Colin
    3. 2020 2e round pick (NYI)
    OTT
    1. Leddy, Nick
    2. 2022 2e round pick (NYI)
    NYI
    1. Gáborík, Marián
    Rachats de contrats
    • Bobby Ryan: 3 583 333 $
    • Dion Phaneuf: 1 354 167 $
    ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
    2020
    NYI
    OTT
    OTT
    NJD
    OTT
    TBL
    SJS
    STL
    2021
    OTT
    OTT
    CBJ
    SJS
    OTT
    COL
    EDM
    OTT
    OTT
    2022
    OTT
    OTT
    PIT
    NYI
    OTT
    OTT
    OTT
    OTT
    OTT
    TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
    2381 500 000 $84 262 999 $0 $3 742 500 $-2 762 999 $
    Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
    OTT
    Brown, Connor
    3 500 000 $
    AG, AD
    RFA
    NSH
    Turris, Kyle
    6 000 000 $
    C
    UFA - 4
    TOR
    Marner, Mitchell
    10 893 000 $
    AD
    UFA - 5
    OTT
    Tkachuk, Brady
    925 000 $
    AG, C
    RFA - 1
    NSH
    Turris, Kyle
    1 650 000 $
    C
    UFA - 2
    OTT
    Duclair, Anthony
    3 500 000 $
    AG, AD
    UFA
    TOR
    Kerfoot, Alexander
    3 500 000 $
    C, AG
    UFA - 3
    OTT
    Tierney, Chris
    3 300 000 $
    C
    RFA
    WSH
    Pánik, Richard
    2 750 000 $
    AG, AD
    UFA - 3
    OTT
    Abramov, Vitaly
    730 833 $
    AG
    RFA - 1
    OTT
    Brown, Logan
    863 333 $
    C
    RFA - 1
    OTT
    Paul, Nicholas
    1 500 000 $
    C, AG
    UFA - 2
    OTT
    Chlapik, Filip
    800 000 $
    C
    RFA
    Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
    OTT
    Chabot, Thomas
    8 000 000 $
    DG
    UFA - 8
    ARI
    Ekman-Larsson, Oliver
    8 250 000 $
    DG
    NMC
    UFA - 7
    TOR
    Andersen, Frederik
    5 000 000 $
    G
    NTC
    UFA - 1
    NYI
    Leddy, Nick
    5 500 000 $
    DG
    UFA - 2
    OTT
    Zaitsev, Nikita
    4 500 000 $
    DD
    NTC
    UFA - 4
    Georgiev, Alexandar
    2 000 000 $
    G
    RFA - 2
    PIT
    Johnson, Jack
    3 250 000 $
    DG
    UFA - 3
    OTT
    Brännström, Erik
    863 333 $
    DD
    RFA - 2
    PIT
    Johnson, Jack
    1 150 000 $
    DG
    UFA - 1
    OTT
    Wolanin, Christian
    900 000 $
    DG
    RFA - 1

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    27 sep à 7 h 54
    #1
    Laine to Buff
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    Rangers decline.
    27 sep à 7 h 57
    #2
    Démarrer sujet
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    Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
    Rangers decline.


    Thank you. Please read title and description?
    27 sep à 7 h 58
    #3
    Hockey 1st Sens 2nd
    Rejoint: aoû 2016
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    No. No they are not. This might not even be a playoff team. Very weak down the middle. Not sold on the bottom 6 at all. Other than when the top D pairing is on the ice we'll be "Toronto bad" in our own end.
    Eli a aimé ceci.
    27 sep à 7 h 59
    #4
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    Quoting: Eli
    Thank you. Please read title and description?


    Anisimov is not a bad player but we just traded a 2nd to dump around that much money. I feel Georgiev is worth 2 second rounders and DAL pick is very late and we're taking on Anismov's contract. I wouldn't mind a deal centered around Brendan Smith and Artem Anisimov.
    Eli a aimé ceci.
    27 sep à 8 h 00
    #5
    Rejoint: jan 2018
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    This team is a fringe playoff team at best, but is way worse off than they are right now. Those D additions are horrible, and trading the 3rd overall pick is inexcusable.
    Eli a aimé ceci.
    27 sep à 8 h 02
    #6
    Rejoint: jun 2016
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    After seeing how much it cost to get rid of Staal from the Rangers i think Turris is going to cost an additional 2021,2022 picks. No 1st rounders as i think Nashville wouldn't do it (They'd just eat the 2M x forever buyout). Possible 2nd conditional picks (Become 3rd rounders if Turris gets 45+ Points or something alon those lines)
    Eli a aimé ceci.
    27 sep à 8 h 08
    #7
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    Quoting: TCMonkey
    No. No they are not. This might not even be a playoff team. Very weak down the middle. Not sold on the bottom 6 at all. Other than when the top D pairing is on the ice we'll be "Toronto bad" in our own end.


    Agree on weak at center. I thought about swapping Kerfoot to 3C and Brown to 3L or 4C, but thought I'd be optimistic that Brown is ready, and with two great checking wings to cover for him, pushes for the Calder trophy.

    Agree the defense isn't a defense, but an offense. Definitely see the Toronto parallel. If only they had a goalie like Andersen to bail them out. Oh wait.... smile
    TCMonkey a aimé ceci.
    27 sep à 8 h 10
    #8
    Démarrer sujet
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    Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
    Anisimov is not a bad player but we just traded a 2nd to dump around that much money. I feel Georgiev is worth 2 second rounders and DAL pick is very late and we're taking on Anismov's contract. I wouldn't mind a deal centered around Brendan Smith and Artem Anisimov.


    Great idea. Smith for Anisimov improves the above defense, and the term is the same. At two 2nds, I think Ottawa can find a more established goalie.
    27 sep à 8 h 14
    #9
    Laine to Buff
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    Quoting: Eli
    Great idea. Smith for Anisimov improves the above defense, and the term is the same. At two 2nds, I think Ottawa can find a more established goalie.


    I'd assume so, but they might value the youth and ceiling. Price is high because he's not technically being "shopped".
    Eli a aimé ceci.
    27 sep à 8 h 20
    #10
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    Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
    I'd assume so, but they might value the youth and ceiling. Price is high because he's not technically being "shopped".


    If NYR is ready to play Georgiev, would Anisimov work for a half-retained Lundqvist? Obviously he wouldn't waive to Ottawa before the above trades, but after they have Marner and Turris, it might look like a better chance to contend than NYR can offer him this year?
    27 sep à 8 h 31
    #11
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    Modifié 27 sep à 8 h 43
    Quoting: Claesson4Norris
    This team is a fringe playoff team at best, but is way worse off than they are right now. Those D additions are horrible, and trading the 3rd overall pick is inexcusable.


    Fair points. For all the Senators fans who get on here and whine that Karlsson's gone, it's nice to hear one call out a couple of similar style players for focusing too much on offense. I kinda think on a team that lets defensemen rush the puck, rather than focus on defense, OEL and Leddy might outscore Karlsson this year, but I agree they give up too many breakaways sometimes.

    Johnson quietly and unremarkably eats a few minutes, and makes a few hits. I definitely give him negative trade value because he is declining and has little idea how to play with the puck, which one now expects for $3M.

    What would you think if it were the Ottawa pick?

    My thought process here is that the Sens have publicly expressed a desire to keep to the salary floor, but the actual budget of the above team is just $65M. I think with something vaguely like this, they might win a few rounds, maybe even win a Cup, and then go right back to rebuilding next summer, before getting stuck with Marner's next July bonus. If they only give a 6th overall pick to rent Marner for a year, they can probably flip him next summer for a top ten pick and a prospect, and only end up paying him $700K. https://www.capfriendly.com/players/mitchell-marner

    Seems like a good fit for a budget-conscious team that likes to occasionally make a little noise.
    27 sep à 8 h 35
    #12
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    Quoting: Eli
    If NYR is ready to play Georgiev, would Anisimov work for a half-retained Lundqvist? Obviously he wouldn't waive to Ottawa before the above trades, but after they have Marner and Turris, it might look like a better chance to contend than NYR can offer him this year?


    100% Rangers accept. Lundqvist is expendable.
    Eli a aimé ceci.
    27 sep à 8 h 39
    #13
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    Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
    100% Rangers accept. Lundqvist is expendable.


    Awesome! Since the goal of this post is that the Sens steal one quick Cup and then go right back to rebuilding before they get stuck paying Marner's next summer signing bonus, Lundqvist is a much better fit. They have Gustavsson and Hogberg developing in Belleville as their own goalies of the future.
    27 sep à 8 h 47
    #14
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    Quoting: TCMonkey
    No. No they are not. This might not even be a playoff team. Very weak down the middle. Not sold on the bottom 6 at all. Other than when the top D pairing is on the ice we'll be "Toronto bad" in our own end.


    Would a post-buyout Wennberg help at 3C? There aren't a lot of options in UFA.
    27 sep à 8 h 53
    #15
    Rejoint: mai 2015
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    This is a big No! from the Sens on all point of views... Melnyk and Dorion stated on multiple occasions that they would go for a rebuild the old way and that they would keep #3 & #5 to anchor that rebuild. And with a draft similar to 2003 for 2022, you may want to be patient with your "contending stuff"

    And FYI this team still aint contending. The only two players that I'd want in there would be Panik and Georgiev. We need to find some centers more that wingers.

    https://i.redd.it/nksnnt34rpo41.jpg
    Eli a aimé ceci.
    27 sep à 8 h 55
    #16
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    Quoting: alpine4life
    This is a big No! from the Sens on all point of views... Melnyk and Dorion stated on multiple occasions that they would go for a rebuild the old way and that they would keep #3 & #5 to anchor that rebuild. And with a "Crosby like" player coming at no.1 for 2022 you may want to be patient with your "contending stuff"

    And FYI this team still aint contending. The only two players that I'd want in there would be Panik and Georgiev. We need to find some centers more that wingers.


    Thanks. My plan here is to steal one Cup and then go right back to rebuilding before having to actually pay Marner. https://www.capfriendly.com/players/mitchell-marner

    Agree on needing centers, but there aren't any, and teams like WSH and WPG do okay without them.
    27 sep à 9 h 09
    #17
    Rejoint: jan 2018
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    Quoting: Eli
    Fair points. For all the Senators fans who get on here and whine that Karlsson's gone, it's nice to hear one call out a couple of similar style players for focusing too much on offense. I kinda think on a team that lets defensemen rush the puck, rather than focus on defense, OEL and Leddy might outscore Karlsson this year, but I agree they give up too many breakaways sometimes.

    Johnson quietly and unremarkably eats a few minutes, and makes a few hits. I definitely give him negative trade value because he is declining and has little idea how to play with the puck, which one now expects for $3M.

    What would you think if it were the Ottawa pick?


    I don't know any Sens fans who would rather still have Karlsson, that trade is very clearly a huge W for Ottawa. Also comparing Karlsson at any point to Nick Leddy and OEL in recent years is just borderline disrespectful. At his worst he was never as bad as he was reported to be, he was always average to slightly below average. OEL and Leddy get straight up shelled defensively. Also saying Leddy could outscore him is flat out ridiculous. The last two seasons, Karlsson has put up points totals close to Leddy at his peak, but he's done it while missing like 30 games a season. For all the woes about his decline, Karl has paced for 70 and 58 points in his last two seasons. He's just had nearly a full year to get as healthy as possible, I wouldn't be surprised to see him right back in the Norris conversation.

    As for the thing about the Sens pick, there's no way Ottawa should be trading a top 5 pick. They're rebuilding, and you build through the draft. It doesn't make sense, the team has flat out said they won't do it, I don't know why anyone thinks it's a thing they should consider doing.
    27 sep à 9 h 10
    #18
    Rejoint: jun 2015
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    Pens probably wouldn’t trade Maniscalco right now. Really bad way to treat a guy who JUST signed here. He chose Pittsburgh as a NCAA UFA, gotta see what he is first.
    Another equal prospect though, sure.
    27 sep à 9 h 26
    #19
    Subbanator
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    I think it's a fringe playoff team, would need Turris to return to form for it to be a fringe playoff team though and dont know if that happens.

    Funniest thing would honestly be see Melnyk have to write that cheque to Marner every year, guaranteed it's late the first year
    27 sep à 10 h 02
    #20
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    Quoting: Subbanator7667
    I think it's a fringe playoff team, would need Turris to return to form for it to be a fringe playoff team though and dont know if that happens.

    Funniest thing would honestly be see Melnyk have to write that cheque to Marner every year, guaranteed it's late the first year


    https://www.capfriendly.com/players/mitchell-marner
    Marner only makes $700k until next July. I don't think Melnyk even has to put down his pina colada to sign that check. But Dorion certainly has to flip Marner next June for picks and prospects, let Andersen walk as a UFA, and get back to rebuilding.

    eta: unless of course making this kind of an investment in established players causes the team to start selling out every game, increases TV and advertising revenues, and lets the team keep Marner and make money. Then they don't have to flip him and they just keep making the playoffs, while looking to upgrade at 2C next summer.

    As for Turris, he finished last year stronger when they moved him back to a bigger role. I think playing middle six annoyed him, and say what you want about what that says about his character, but Ottawa could use him as a #1C, and Nashville could possibly use the cap space.
    27 sep à 10 h 11
    #21
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    Quoting: Claesson4Norris
    I don't know any Sens fans who would rather still have Karlsson, that trade is very clearly a huge W for Ottawa. Also comparing Karlsson at any point to Nick Leddy and OEL in recent years is just borderline disrespectful. At his worst he was never as bad as he was reported to be, he was always average to slightly below average. OEL and Leddy get straight up shelled defensively. Also saying Leddy could outscore him is flat out ridiculous. The last two seasons, Karlsson has put up points totals close to Leddy at his peak, but he's done it while missing like 30 games a season. For all the woes about his decline, Karl has paced for 70 and 58 points in his last two seasons. He's just had nearly a full year to get as healthy as possible, I wouldn't be surprised to see him right back in the Norris conversation.

    As for the thing about the Sens pick, there's no way Ottawa should be trading a top 5 pick. They're rebuilding, and you build through the draft. It doesn't make sense, the team has flat out said they won't do it, I don't know why anyone thinks it's a thing they should consider doing.


    $700k for a year of Marner is a contract written as a love letter to teams trying to stay at the salary floor. I'm just enjoying the conversation about which team steps up.

    https://www.capfriendly.com/players/mitchell-marner

    OEL is not as good as Karlsson, and will never be as good. The parallel is that with each of them, when their plus minus goes way negative, they get a lot of points, but when their plus minus goes even, they get fewer points. If you wanted 50 points out of OEL, he could give them to you. You'd just give up a lot of breakaways. If you wanted an 80 point defenseman, yeah, you'd want Karlsson or maybe Carlson rushing the puck every shift like they didn't have to play defense.

    But OEL last year was -3, solid on the penalty kill, and IMHO his numbers took a dive because Arizona mistakenly made Phil Kessel the focus of an otherwise good power play.
    27 sep à 10 h 20
    #22
    Subbanator
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    Quoting: Eli
    https://www.capfriendly.com/players/mitchell-marner
    Marner only makes $700k until next July. I don't think Melnyk even has to put down his pina colada to sign that check. But Dorion certainly has to flip Marner next June for picks and prospects, let Andersen walk as a UFA, and get back to rebuilding.

    eta: unless of course making this kind of an investment in established players causes the team to start selling out every game, increases TV and advertising revenues, and lets the team keep Marner and make money. Then they don't have to flip him and they just keep making the playoffs, while looking to upgrade at 2C next summer.

    As for Turris, he finished last year stronger when they moved him back to a bigger role. I think playing middle six annoyed him, and say what you want about what that says about his character, but Ottawa could use him as a #1C, and Nashville could possibly use the cap space.


    Melnyk would avoid the 14 million cheque but there is still a 9.6 one that has to get paid next July and Melnyk would be in a bad mood that day
    27 sep à 10 h 23
    #23
    Rejoint: aoû 2020
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    The additions outside of Marner are either expensive, overrated, or over the hill. Any team that has Turris, Jack Johnson and OEL In prominent roles while also expecting guys like DuClair, Branstrom, and Brown to take the next step isn’t a contender. OTT needs to stay the course, use the draft capital they have accumulated and let the existing prospects continue to develop not spend a bunch of money and draft capital to become a maybe playoff team.
    27 sep à 10 h 27
    #24
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    Quoting: Subbanator7667
    Melnyk would avoid the 14 million cheque but there is still a 9.6 one that has to get paid next July and Melnyk would be in a bad mood that day


    Yes. The other 31 teams would know that Dorion was under ownership pressure to trade away Marner before next July. So Dorion would trade Marner away for, like, a 10th overall pick, an A- prospect, and a #4 defenseman next June.

    Or.... another possibility: led back to the playoffs by an Ontario-raised star, the Senators sell out their arena, make tons of money, and either decide they can afford to keep Marner on their own, or at least show enough profit to attract a buyer committed to keeping the Sens competitive in Ottawa. That's the same goal as the rebuild, just they have a chance to get there quicker. Does it work? Maybe.
    Subbanator7667 et PhillyDip123 a aimé ceci.
    27 sep à 10 h 37
    #25
    Rejoint: jan 2018
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    Quoting: Eli
    $700k for a year of Marner is a contract written as a love letter to teams trying to stay at the salary floor. I'm just enjoying the conversation about which team steps up.

    https://www.capfriendly.com/players/mitchell-marner

    OEL is not as good as Karlsson, and will never be as good. The parallel is that with each of them, when their plus minus goes way negative, they get a lot of points, but when their plus minus goes even, they get fewer points. If you wanted 50 points out of OEL, he could give them to you. You'd just give up a lot of breakaways. If you wanted an 80 point defenseman, yeah, you'd want Karlsson or maybe Carlson rushing the puck every shift like they didn't have to play defense.

    But OEL last year was -3, solid on the penalty kill, and IMHO his numbers took a dive because Arizona mistakenly made Phil Kessel the focus of an otherwise good power play.


    Plus minus is such a horrible stat for measuring anything, especially defensive play. It's especially useless for guys who play the ridiculous icetime those guys do. They're on the ice so much all situations, of course they're going to be on the ice for a lot of goals. The stat doesn't tell you anything about how they effect play.
     
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