Marner>>>Vrana
Mikheyev>Jensen
Liljegren< Oshie

Add in the fact that we save almost no cap? No thank you

This is quite a bit of a yikes ..

"I don't really have a great feel for what Orlov is worth, and I'm sure Washington is high on vrana but I think Marner would be the guy to get OVI past Gretzky. Be constructive not a crybaby"

Orlov is really, really consistent. Over the last five years, among left-shot defensemen, he's tied with Yandle for 7th in even strength points, just one ahead of Krug and two ahead of Muzzin: http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20152016&seasonTo=20192020&gameType=2&position=D&shootsCatches=L&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=evPoints&page=0&pageSize=100

On a lot of teams, Orlov could be the power play point guy, and have some 60 point seasons, but in WSH he's more likely to kill penalties and play a shutdown role. So his value is basically Muzzin, a little pricier, but 2.5 years younger. Same skill, but same role makes both almost anonymous, but still very valuable.

This year, among left wings, Vrana tied Gaudreau for 10th in even strength points, with 40: http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20192020&seasonTo=20192020&gameType=2&position=L&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=evPoints&page=0&pageSize=100

Among right wings, Marner was 8th this year, with 42: http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20192020&seasonTo=20192020&gameType=2&position=R&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=evPoints&page=0&pageSize=100

Not that different. Both played with good centers. Both did well.

The biggest difference between Vrana's and Marner's trade value to a team with room on its top power play unit for either of them would be Marner's power play points output. To Washington, the biggest difference is cap hit. For the price of Marner, WSH has Vrana plus TJ Oshie, who was on pace for 31g 58p this year.

So my idea of a counteroffer would be something more like Marner and Mikheyev for Vrana and Oshie. Each team gives up one good contract and one bad one. WSH gets a little younger, while Tor adds two leaders with a recent championship. Tor gives up guys who totaled 90 points this year, and gets back guys who totaled 101 points this year.

Basically, each team gets to say it got rid of its worst contract, without a significant drop in talent.

Marner>>>Vrana
Mikheyev>Jensen
Liljegren< Oshie

Add in the fact that we save almost no cap? No thank you

Oshie is signed for 5 more years at nearly $6m and will be 34 to start the coming season... I'm taking Liljegren over that all day.

I fail to see the "bad contract" Toronto gives up here. & for that matter, Washington doesn't give one up either. Your title is very misleading,

Marner overpaid like 2 mil. Oshie paid like 6 mil until he's like 40. It's apples and oranges on this one

Marner's still young and over a point per game. That contract was signed with the intention of the cap increasing. It didn't. It might not be the best contract, but it's certainly not a bad one one. Oshie is a consistent 50 point player that plays well in all 3 zones. Right now at $5.75M per year, that's definitely not a bad contract.

You might wanna check and see if those apples and oranges are rotten if you think those are "bad contracts"

Marner overpaid like 2 mil. Oshie paid like 6 mil until he's like 40. It's apples and oranges on this one

Oshie looks good now, just wait 2-3 years and see if you think his 5.75 is still all sunshine and rainbows

As for Marner, I agree with what you said, but you can't deny that he's getting paid above market value. A young improving superstar for sure, but 2nd highest paid winger in the league is a bit much. His comparable contract would have been Rantanen's 9.25

Sorry but the vrana marner comparison is just bad. Marner played less games and just flat out up more points. 5v5 and pp... and 4v4 and on the pk... probably 3on3 as well lol.

That package for marner I would probably consider. But you added Lilly mikheyev and engvall.

The idea that leafs “need” to lose cap is false. Do they need to sign petro? Is that even a smart idea?

Rantenen signed after Marner. Can't use that as a comparable

What does Rantanen signing after Marner have to do with it? If anything it makes it a more relevant comparable because Marner set the market and Rantanen still got paid less despite similar production.

What does Rantanen signing after Marner have to do with it? If anything it makes it a more relevant comparable because Marner set the market and Rantanen still got paid less despite similar production.

Marner had two more even strength points than Vrana this year at over three times the cap hit. The cap is flat. Cap hit affects trade value. Am I speaking French?

Because you can't say "use Rantenen as a comparable" in any Marner negotiation because he was already signed. Everyone talked about from the start how Marner would set the market for other players, so the Rantenen had literally zero impact on the Marner contract.

Okay, but Rantanen's deal was signed after Marner's, so why isn't he getting paid what Marner is despite putting up better numbers heading into their negotiations? Because Marner is overpaid. Rantanen is a great comparable. They are from the same draft, both play wing, put up similar point totals, signed for the same term in the same offseason. Sure, you can't say "They should have based it off of the Rantanen deal", but these are two players who should have gotten similar amounts.

You're only taking into consideration point totals and think that's the reason why they're comparable? ... Marner's better defensively, he's a leader in the locker room (alternate captain), tax situation is incredibly different in Colorado than it is in Ontario. All of those lead Marner to get more. You can argue Marner is overpaid, sure. But to say that he should have signed for what Rantenen signed for is just false.