Leaf fans are nuts. Top 5 wingers dont grow on trees you know.

I'm not simple, I understand that I would rather have a well distributed team instead of three guys making north of 10 and having minimal defense and depth

🤦🏻‍♂️

This ain't it. Marner stays.

Offer a solution, not a pointless opinion.

I take it you can't read then. I offered the solution. Read first. Then comeback with your pointless comment.

my requirement for Marner trade:

- top 4 RD
- replacement top 6 winger
- mid first / higher end prospect
- 2nd / mid tier prospect

That gets the convo going for me. Otherwise I'd prefer to keep Marner

Tell you what you want a perennial first round exit team you go ahead and keep him Mr.Dubas

I mean that's pretty close to what I was trying to do here I only held back cause like I said I'm not certain on orlovs value and thought vrana is a great replacement for the cost maybe drop the pick to Washington and upgrade the third to a second and add another prospect

Considering that contract as offer sheet would cost the Leafs a 2nd, Dermott and Liljegren on top of a 2nd is an overpay.

And add another first round pick on there

Washington has no reason to make this trade. We give up a top pairing LHD and a top 6 LW for Marner and we lose what 5 million in cap? Lmfao why do we do this? Marner is great but his cap hit sucks. Vrana is really solid so is Orlov. This makes us worse.

Good luck. Lol

No that's definitely to far

"I don't really have a great feel for what Orlov is worth, and I'm sure Washington is high on vrana but I think Marner would be the guy to get OVI past Gretzky. Be constructive not a crybaby"

Orlov is really, really consistent. Over the last five years, among left-shot defensemen, he's tied with Yandle for 7th in even strength points, just one ahead of Krug and two ahead of Muzzin: http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20152016&seasonTo=20192020&gameType=2&position=D&shootsCatches=L&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=evPoints&page=0&pageSize=100

On a lot of teams, Orlov could be the power play point guy, and have some 60 point seasons, but in WSH he's more likely to kill penalties and play a shutdown role. So his value is basically Muzzin, a little pricier, but 2.5 years younger. Same skill, but same role makes both almost anonymous, but still very valuable.

This year, among left wings, Vrana tied Gaudreau for 10th in even strength points, with 40: http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20192020&seasonTo=20192020&gameType=2&position=L&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=evPoints&page=0&pageSize=100

Among right wings, Marner was 8th this year, with 42: http://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20192020&seasonTo=20192020&gameType=2&position=R&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=evPoints&page=0&pageSize=100

Not that different. Both played with good centers. Both did well.

The biggest difference between Vrana's and Marner's trade value to a team with room on its top power play unit for either of them would be Marner's power play points output. To Washington, the biggest difference is cap hit. For the price of Marner, WSH has Vrana plus TJ Oshie, who was on pace for 31g 58p this year.

So my idea of a counteroffer would be something more like Marner and Mikheyev for Vrana and Oshie. Each team gives up one good contract and one bad one. WSH gets a little younger, while Tor adds two leaders with a recent championship. Tor gives up guys who totaled 90 points this year, and gets back guys who totaled 101 points this year.

Basically, each team gets to say it got rid of its worst contract, without a significant drop in talent.

I didn't know he played the left for the caps I just saw his official position and looked at his numbers if he is one of your top left sides than you are right it doesn't work.

I think Orlov is maybe a bit less than I would hope on the D side just because we have too many left shots as it is, and Vrana maybe a bit more than I could ask for as a replacement. For me, it'd be:

Orlov
Vrana
1st
C level prospect

for Marner +3rd, and throw in a guy like Holl or Johnsson if you'd like

Not saying WSH should or shouldn't do it, not saying I would or wouldn't take this, just saying what it'd take for me to even consider and to get talks going on a deal of this nature

If I'm underestimating Orlov, maybe go:

Vrana
Orlov
First
C prospect

for Marner, 2nd, other piece like Kerfy/Johnsson/Holl/Engvall, or even 2 of those guys if you want

Great response thanks for the info on Orlov. But if there isn't a RHD coming back it just doesn't fit for Toronto. Also Oshie is expected to be taken in expansion so it really doesn't affect Washington to much to trade him. I don't think Marners contract is as bad as oshies, it may be longer but Oshie is much older.

Your cab is on its way. Do you want me to hold onto your car keys?

Thank you so much!

The Caps' entire RHD depth chart (excluding minor league UFAs) is: John Carlson, Nick Jensen. They probably prefer not to just throw one in. Carlson is definitely not a throw-in. Tor bid the trade price on Jensen up to where Washington traded their top RHD prospect and a 2nd for him. You probably don't think he's worth Liljegren, but maybe Duszak?

Oshie's from Washington state, but with his contract, getting Seattle to commit to taking him probably costs the Caps about a 2nd. Oshie is one of the best in the league at playing net-front for screens, tips and rebounds, especially on the power play. The Caps' shooting percentage goes up when he is on the ice. But the Caps would want Seattle to take him because they can just move Tom Wilson up to that role, and be just as good at power plays. They have Hathaway to audition for Wilson's role on PP2. Toronto might prefer to keep Oshie, and keep getting 30 tap-in goals a year. If they just left him exposed, Seattle might be dissuaded by his contract. So it could be a way to keep eight good forwards.

Marner got two more even strength points this year than Vrana. If you put Vrana on a top power play unit, he'll get as many points as Marner. He and Nylander both speak a tiny bit of Swedish, and that might help with line chemistry. Oshie's contract is bad, but I think I'm proposing a win for the Leafs. I'd have to build it from the Caps side to see whether it could also be a win for the Caps, as is.

I definitely wouldn't deem it as unfair. It just doesn't work with the leafs cap, vrana is up for an extension next year and his deal would put us over what we move out in this deal and we still don't get a right handed d man

don't understand this but...

Never said this is fair for WSH, all I said is that is what it would take to pry Marner out of my hands. There's a very key difference there

I'm not going to have a conversation with someone who doesn't read what other people say.

I built the Caps' side, trading away their 2RHD. https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1953437

Same problem.

It seems like two top teams built exactly up to the cap can trade their most problematic contracts and create a little bit of freedom in different spots, but they do need to make deals with other teams in order to actually create any cap space, between them.

Lol. So you're solution is to trade a 23 year old wingers who puts up over a point per game for absolute garbage, and then barely upgrade the rest of the roster? .. if you were in charge they wouldn't even make playoffs.

Lol absolute garbage, well that takes your credibility away right there. Research before making baseless claims, once you've done that then come talk to me. And I think you already know the rest of the roster is well improved 3c in a 4c spot, top 4 d man in a bottom six role two new top 4 RHD and a top 6 winger at a third of the price. Get real bud.