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I really dont see this happening but a sign and trade

Créé par: BCAPP
Équipe: 2020-21 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 25 sept. 2020
Publié: 25 sept. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Just curious what one would look like.

Apparently (who knows if its true) the hang up in St Louis isn't the AAV but not doing the contract with ++signing bonuses and trade protection. Obviously the Leafs would do signing bonuses, and hopefully they could offer him enough trade protection.

In this hypothetical situation he would have no signing bonus the first year (as St Louis would have to pay it), then have the majority of his contract after the first year be signing bonuses.

Maybe NMC for 3 years, the modified NTC for like blocking 20 teams or something hopefully for the last 5. Makes him still tradeable but he has a fair bit of control.

I signed him for roughly the equivalent of 9 mil for 7 years (63 million), this contract is 62 million over 8, but he can get it in signing bonuses which makes it relatively buyout proof and up front.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
1700 000 $
11 350 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
87 750 000 $
1700 000 $
11 000 000 $
1800 000 $
Transactions
1.
TOR
  1. Barbashev, Ivan
  2. Choix de 3e ronde en 2020 (STL)
STL
  1. Choix de 1e ronde en 2020 (PIT)
Détails additionnels:
Apparently they want a first for a sign and trade, I wouldn't do that alone, but getting a guy like Barbashev back would let them trade Kerfoot, so I'd do the first then if it will also let us save on the AAV by doing 8 years for Pietro
2.
TOR
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2020 (PIT)
CHI
  1. Kerfoot, Alexander
  2. Choix de 4e ronde en 2020 (TOR)
Détails additionnels:
Assuming they trade Strome, if they don't they would not have interest in this
3.
TOR
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2020 (VGK)
LAK
  1. Johnsson, Andreas
  2. Choix de 4e ronde en 2020 (VGK)
Détails additionnels:
We seem to trade with LA a lot, they could use some veterans and increased scoring. Frankly I suspect they aren't ready to make this trade, they would do it in two-three years, but could be anyone
4.
TOR
  1. Choix de 3e ronde en 2020 (COL)
5.
TOR
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2020 (SJS)
SJS
  1. Dermott, Travis [Droits de RFA]
Rachats de contrats
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2020
Logo de TOR
Logo de PIT
Logo de VGK
Logo de SJS
Logo de STL
Logo de COL
Logo de VGK
Logo de TOR
Logo de CAR
Logo de COL
Logo de SJS
Logo de STL
Logo de WPG
2021
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
2022
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $81 271 450 $0 $0 $228 550 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
2 250 000 $2 250 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
11 640 250 $11 640 250 $
C
UFA - 4
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
10 903 000 $10 903 000 $
AD
UFA - 5
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 350 000 $1 350 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
11 000 000 $11 000 000 $
C, AG
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
6 962 366 $6 962 366 $
AD
UFA - 4
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
821 667 $821 667 $
AG, AD
RFA - 4
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
925 000 $925 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
800 000 $800 000 $
AG, C
UFA
Logo de Blues de St-Louis
1 475 000 $1 475 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
700 000 $700 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 625 000 $5 625 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 4
7 750 000 $7 750 000 $
DD
UFA - 7
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
DG
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
DD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 650 000 $1 650 000 $
G
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
894 167 $894 167 $
DG
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
925 000 $925 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
700 000 $700 000 $
C
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
700 000 $700 000 $
DG
UFA - 1

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25 sept. 2020 à 13 h 54
#26
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Quoting: BCAPP
It would have to be part of the deal of course


Sign and trades aren't a real thing in the NHL. If St. Louis wanted to, they could renege on the "trade" part of the sign-and-trade and keep Pietrangelo after he signs the deal.
Quoting: BCAPP
It would have to be part of the deal of course


I think Pietrangelo's camp would prefer to just let the clock run out on his existing deal so they could negotiate directly with Toronto instead of trying to go through a middle man. Then the Leafs would have to compete on the open market for his services. True, they couldn't offer him the 8th year, but the demand for his services would significantly up his bargaining power.

I don't see anything like this happening.
25 sept. 2020 à 13 h 55
#27
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Quoting: mondo
everyone can laugh at this guy if none of this happens


I love when people say what WILL happen or what a GM WILL do or PLANS to do.

Instead of I think such and such will happen.

Where the heck is this confidence coming from
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25 sept. 2020 à 13 h 55
#28
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Quoting: A_K
If you're speaking directly to Doug Armstrong, I don't think he's gonna see this. But go off, draft Schneider too early, trade your third liners and replace them with KHLers, and sign Petro to a 9+ AAV.


Gotta agree with you here and your position on this in this thread. I like how this would be able to keep his AAV lower with being able to sign him that extra year, if St. Louis would throw in Barbashev to help with us dealing kerfoot or another depth player. I think this is a brainer. Saving 1 mill+ on the AAV on our cap strapped team is arguably more valuable than a mid first round pick. I like this proposal.
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25 sept. 2020 à 13 h 55
#29
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
Sign and trades aren't a real thing in the NHL. If St. Louis wanted to, they could renege on the "trade" part of the sign-and-trade and keep Pietrangelo after he signs the deal.

I think Pietrangelo's camp would prefer to just let the clock run out on his existing deal so they could negotiate directly with Toronto instead of trying to go through a middle man. Then the Leafs would have to compete on the open market for his services. True, they couldn't offer him the 8th year, but the demand for his services would significantly up his bargaining power.

I don't see anything like this happening.


To be honest I really don't either. See my title. Lol

Was just curious to go through the exercise.

It only really makes sense if he just wants the Leafs.
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25 sept. 2020 à 13 h 56
#30
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Quoting: mondo
everyone can laugh at this guy if none of this happens


If it does Dubas should be fired, simple as that.
25 sept. 2020 à 13 h 57
#31
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Quoting: BCAPP
I'm a Leafs fan.

I am incredibly leery of Schneider as he sounds an awful lot like Schenn and the like. They often don't pan out.

Regardless the value here would be essentially saving 1 mil on pietros cap hit and getting a cheap 3c


How about we just sign Pietrangelo in Free Agency once he walks. We all know that is the better choice and its almost confirmed at this point
25 sept. 2020 à 13 h 57
#32
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Quoting: Boomer125
Makes more sense to trade AP rights to TO along with a 3rd or 4th rnd pick for Liljegren and let TO structure the deal any way they see fit


Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
if you want to sign him to an 8 year deal, just trade a 6th for his rights so you can do it instead of a 1st


This isn't how signing a deal for 8 years works which would be the only point of a sign and trade.

The only team that can sign that is the team that has him on the roster the day after the trade deadline
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25 sept. 2020 à 13 h 57
#33
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Quoting: BCAPP
This isn't how signing a deal for 8 years works which would be the only point of a sign and trade.

The only team that can sign that is the team that has him on the roster the day after the trade deadline


i see
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25 sept. 2020 à 13 h 58
#34
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Quoting: A_K
If you're speaking directly to Doug Armstrong, I don't think he's gonna see this. But go off, draft Schneider too early, trade your third liners and replace them with KHLers, and sign Petro to a 9+ AAV.


I liked this as the response to the original poster.

I really hope the Leafs don't do this.
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25 sept. 2020 à 13 h 59
#35
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Quoting: papishark
Their would clearly need to be a legal agreement that he would waive


Modified NMC can be traded to Toronto. Done.
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25 sept. 2020 à 14 h 0
#36
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Hawks don't want Kerfoot even if we trade strome unless he's it's a late 3rd or 4th.


Who do you have to fill that role? Not arguing curious. Trade here is mid 4th plus kerfoot for mid second. I'd argue that's equivalent to an early third.

Ie an early third and a mid fourth gets you a mid second

(Like 65 + 100 gets you 45)
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25 sept. 2020 à 14 h 3
#37
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Quoting: themostleaf33
If it does Dubas should be fired, simple as that.


25 sept. 2020 à 14 h 4
#38
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Quoting: themostleaf33
How about we just sign Pietrangelo in Free Agency once he walks. We all know that is the better choice and its almost confirmed at this point


Again the value would be in saving 1 million on the cap and getting a decent cheap 3c.

Not saying it's a great deal but was just curious what it would look like
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25 sept. 2020 à 14 h 28
#39
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Quoting: BCAPP
Who do you have to fill that role? Not arguing curious. Trade here is mid 4th plus kerfoot for mid second. I'd argue that's equivalent to an early third.

Ie an early third and a mid fourth gets you a mid second

(Like 65 + 100 gets you 45)


Sorry, the mid 2nd is too valuable to give up and Kerfoot is not that good. Additionally, there are free agents available.

We have Suter and Kurashev plus Shaw can play the 3C.

You are trying to dump cap to make space and teams know that. Nobody would give up a 2nd rounder especially knowing that for a player that isn't all that productive.
25 sept. 2020 à 15 h 7
#40
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Quoting: BCAPP
I really don't get this. He's a 23 year old defenseman who can play both sides with offensive upside and has played well in tough minutes in his short looks with Rielly and muzzin injured.

I'm not sure why people think he's like Carrick or whatever


Everyone thinks we are "dumping" Dermott and Johnsson for cap purposes. They see zero value in young, promising players who have already proven they can play top 4/top 6 minutes on reasonable deals.

It's hard to imagine both don't fetch at least a 2nd.

Kerfoot is a little different as, like the Leafs, most teams may not be keen to add $3.5m to their third line. He wouldn't be a cap dump, but I wouldn't anticipate fair value coming back for him either.
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25 sept. 2020 à 15 h 12
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I know there's a thousand + threads already on this...but I like a scenario where we send a 1st ++ and acquire Parayko so that AP can re-sign in St. Louis. I'd be ecstatic with either...but prefer the age/cap hit of Parayko and his defensive style
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25 sept. 2020 à 15 h 21
#42
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Quoting: Juice
I know there's a thousand + threads already on this...but I like a scenario where we send a 1st ++ and acquire Parayko so that AP can re-sign in St. Louis. I'd be ecstatic with either...but prefer the age/cap hit of Parayko and his defensive style


I dislike his only having two years left. But I see your point
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25 sept. 2020 à 16 h 15
#43
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Quoting: BCAPP
I really don't get this. He's a 23 year old defenseman who can play both sides with offensive upside and has played well in tough minutes in his short looks with Rielly and muzzin injured.

I'm not sure why people think he's like Carrick or whatever


Well said. Dermott was drafted in the 2nd round he's young he'll be cheap and he has potential. I don't understand why fans of other teams undervalue him any team would be lucky to get a player like Dermott in the 2nd round or they can keep their pick and hope whoever they draft actually makes it to the nhl.
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25 sept. 2020 à 16 h 18
#44
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Quoting: BCAPP
I love when people say what WILL happen or what a GM WILL do or PLANS to do.

Instead of I think such and such will happen.

Where the heck is this confidence coming from


They think their opinion actually carries weight and because they say something it's true. I get it's ACGM but I think they're forgetting the armchair part lol
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25 sept. 2020 à 16 h 20
#45
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Quoting: Juice
Everyone thinks we are "dumping" Dermott and Johnsson for cap purposes. They see zero value in young, promising players who have already proven they can play top 4/top 6 minutes on reasonable deals.

It's hard to imagine both don't fetch at least a 2nd.

Kerfoot is a little different as, like the Leafs, most teams may not be keen to add $3.5m to their third line. He wouldn't be a cap dump, but I wouldn't anticipate fair value coming back for him either.


If a leaf fan would have posted the Kapanen to Pittsburgh deal before it happened they would have been told they/all leaf fans are delusional. That's why I prefer to wait and see what happens IRL.
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25 sept. 2020 à 16 h 26
#46
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Quoting: BCAPP
This isn't how signing a deal for 8 years works which would be the only point of a sign and trade.

The only team that can sign that is the team that has him on the roster the day after the trade deadline


It wouldn't be a sign n trade we would trade for his rights to sign him but this ACGM is interesting. That being said we shouldn't sign AP as it will only add to our cap nightmares plus if the whole point of signing him is to get Rielly a partner we won't be able to pay MO in 2 years unless we are moving out Nylander. I think the hope is Sandin takes the next step by then and him and Muzzin take on bigger rolls on the left side but who knows that's just my opinion.
25 sept. 2020 à 16 h 35
#47
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Quoting: Juice
I know there's a thousand + threads already on this...but I like a scenario where we send a 1st ++ and acquire Parayko so that AP can re-sign in St. Louis. I'd be ecstatic with either...but prefer the age/cap hit of Parayko and his defensive style


I think the reason for the stubbornness from the Blues' side of the Petro negotiations is because they like Parayko's age, cap hit, style of play, etc more too; in effect, they're not afraid to play chicken with Petro so the only way I can see Parayko getting plucked is with a massive package - Sandin / Robertson / picks - and even then, they may not want to meet Petro's demands so I really can't picture it working out for either side.

Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Well said. Dermott was drafted in the 2nd round he's young he'll be cheap and he has potential. I don't understand why fans of other teams undervalue him any team would be lucky to get a player like Dermott in the 2nd round or they can keep their pick and hope whoever they draft actually makes it to the nhl.


I don't know why so many people on this site act like Dermott, Kerfoot, Johnsson have zero value. I guess just because they'd be the pieces that the Leafs would have to move out for a big money signing, but tossing away a single draft pick outside the top-40 and getting a useful, relatively young player seems like a no-brainer to a lot of teams. IMO Leafs are accepting the L in those type of trades but netting an overall improvement. Just more evidence that draft picks are overrated I guess.
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25 sept. 2020 à 16 h 36
#48
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Quoting: Sign_em_up000000
Well said. Dermott was drafted in the 2nd round he's young he'll be cheap and he has potential. I don't understand why fans of other teams undervalue him any team would be lucky to get a player like Dermott in the 2nd round or they can keep their pick and hope whoever they draft actually makes it to the nhl.


No one wants to be seen as helping the big, bad leafs out of a cap crunch. Actual GM's aren't stupid tho...they know how infrequently they hit on 2nd round picks and the value of young 20 year olds that can already play top minutes. Again...I'm not expecting a haul for either...but they certainly have trade value around or better than a 2nd round pick.
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25 sept. 2020 à 16 h 42
#49
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Quoting: A_K
I think the reason for the stubbornness from the Blues' side of the Petro negotiations is because they like Parayko's age, cap hit, style of play, etc more too; in effect, they're not afraid to play chicken with Petro so the only way I can see Parayko getting plucked is with a massive package - Sandin / Robertson / picks - and even then, they may not want to meet Petro's demands so I really can't picture it working out for either side.



I don't know why so many people on this site act like Dermott, Kerfoot, Johnsson have zero value. I guess just because they'd be the pieces that the Leafs would have to move out for a big money signing, but tossing away a single draft pick outside the top-40 and getting a useful, relatively young player seems like a no-brainer to a lot of teams. IMO Leafs are accepting the L in those type of trades but netting an overall improvement. Just more evidence that draft picks are overrated I guess.


@A_K as always, you are a gem. Insights are always on point. I respect the Blues for wanting to go with Parayko over Pietrangelo. It's tough to let your captain walk away, especially so soon after he's delivered a cup....but he's not worth an expensive 8yr deal and they're wise to avoid it...especially with the players they have to step up and take his minutes.

Leafs are likely desperate enough to overpay for a guy who they hope can give 4-5 solid years and deal with the consequences on the final years of the deal. I'm desperate enough to let them.
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25 sept. 2020 à 16 h 48
#50
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Quoting: A_K
I think the reason for the stubbornness from the Blues' side of the Petro negotiations is because they like Parayko's age, cap hit, style of play, etc more too; in effect, they're not afraid to play chicken with Petro so the only way I can see Parayko getting plucked is with a massive package - Sandin / Robertson / picks - and even then, they may not want to meet Petro's demands so I really can't picture it working out for either side.



I don't know why so many people on this site act like Dermott, Kerfoot, Johnsson have zero value. I guess just because they'd be the pieces that the Leafs would have to move out for a big money signing, but tossing away a single draft pick outside the top-40 and getting a useful, relatively young player seems like a no-brainer to a lot of teams. IMO Leafs are accepting the L in those type of trades but netting an overall improvement. Just more evidence that draft picks are overrated I guess.


Nobody understands a market. Yes team a can say I won't give you more than a 5th because you need to make this trade. Then team b goes wow this guys is worth a high 2nd. I'll give you a 3rd. Still better than his value. Etc etc and you likely lose some value for loss of leverage but as long as there are a few interested teams you can get decent value
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