Forums/Armchair-GM

I really dont see this happening but a sign and trade

Créé par: BCAPP
Date de création initiale: sep 25, 2020
Publié: 25 sep à 13 h 05
Équipe: 2020-21 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Explications
Just curious what one would look like.

Apparently (who knows if its true) the hang up in St Louis isn't the AAV but not doing the contract with ++signing bonuses and trade protection. Obviously the Leafs would do signing bonuses, and hopefully they could offer him enough trade protection.

In this hypothetical situation he would have no signing bonus the first year (as St Louis would have to pay it), then have the majority of his contract after the first year be signing bonuses.

Maybe NMC for 3 years, the modified NTC for like blocking 20 teams or something hopefully for the last 5. Makes him still tradeable but he has a fair bit of control.

I signed him for roughly the equivalent of 9 mil for 7 years (63 million), this contract is 62 million over 8, but he can get it in signing bonuses which makes it relatively buyout proof and up front.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
Gauthier, Frédérik1700 000 $
Mikheyev, Ilya11 350 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
Pietrangelo, Alex87 750 000 $
Spezza, Jason1700 000 $
Simmonds, Wayne11 000 000 $
Boyle, Brian1800 000 $
Transactions
TOR
  1. Barbashev, Ivan
  2. 2020 3e round pick (STL)
STL
  1. 2020 1e round pick (PIT)
Apparently they want a first for a sign and trade, I wouldn't do that alone, but getting a guy like Barbashev back would let them trade Kerfoot, so I'd do the first then if it will also let us save on the AAV by doing 8 years for Pietro
TOR
  1. 2020 2e round pick (PIT)
CHI
  1. Kerfoot, Alexander
  2. 2020 4e round pick (TOR)
Détails additionnels:
Assuming they trade Strome, if they don't they would not have interest in this
TOR
  1. 2020 2e round pick (VGK)
LAK
  1. Johnsson, Andreas
  2. 2020 4e round pick (VGK)
Détails additionnels:
We seem to trade with LA a lot, they could use some veterans and increased scoring. Frankly I suspect they aren't ready to make this trade, they would do it in two-three years, but could be anyone
TOR
  1. 2020 3e round pick (COL)
FLA
  1. Engvall, Pierre
TOR
  1. 2020 2e round pick (SJS)
SJS
  1. Dermott, Travis [Droits de RFA]
Rachats de contrats
  • Mikhail Grabovski: 0 $
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Phil Kessel: 1 200 000 $ (15%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2020
TOR
PIT
VGK
SJS
STL
COL
VGK
TOR
CAR
COL
SJS
STL
WPG
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $81 255 200 $0 $0 $244 800 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
TOR
Hyman, Zach
2 250 000 $
AG, AD
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Matthews, Auston
11 634 000 $
C
UFA - 4
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
10 893 000 $
AD
UFA - 5
TOR
Mikheyev, Ilya
1 350 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
TOR
Tavares, John
11 000 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 5
TOR
Nylander, William
6 962 366 $
AD, AG
UFA - 4
TOR
Robertson, Nicholas
821 667 $
AG
RFA - 3
STL
Barbashev, Ivan
1 475 000 $
C
RFA - 1
Simmonds, Wayne
1 000 000 $
AD, AG
NTC
UFA - 1
Boyle, Brian
800 000 $
AG, C
UFA
TOR
Spezza, Jason
700 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
TOR
Barabanov, Alexander
925 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
5 625 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 4
Pietrangelo, Alex
7 750 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 7
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
5 000 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
5 000 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Holl, Justin
2 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 3
TOR
Campbell, Jack
1 650 000 $
G
UFA - 2
TOR
Sandin, Rasmus
894 167 $
DG
RFA - 2
TOR
Lehtonen, Mikko
925 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
TOR
Gauthier, Frédérik
700 000 $
C
UFA
TOR
Marincin, Martin
700 000 $
DG
UFA - 1

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25 sep à 13 h 08
#1
Rejoint: aoû 2020
Messages: 44
Mentions "j'aime": 9
I dont think Dermott is worth a second, maybe a third-fourth.
SociallyHawkward a aimé ceci.
25 sep à 13 h 12
#2
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 1,267
Mentions "j'aime": 392
No chance I'm giving up a first in a sign-and-trade. MAYBE if Pietrangelo agrees to a deal ahead of time and it's structured to provide some benefit for the Leafs, but it's too significant an asset to lose (when you could potentially get the same player for nothing in two weeks). If somebody signed him, well then you could use that first to upgrade your blueline in a different way (and probably for a player who is cheaper).

They can structure bonuses however they want (don't have to be signing). They could give him a Halloween bonus if they want to, and maybe even pretend it's for having the best costume.
25 sep à 13 h 13
#3
but you’re close.
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 127
Mentions "j'aime": 28
There can be signing bonuses in the first year and STL would NOT be on the hook for them because they would be paid when the first year of the contract starts (after Pietro is already traded), not when the contract is signed. You're confusing an extension (which this is) with a normal FA/July 1st type signing.
BCAPP a aimé ceci.
25 sep à 13 h 13
#4
Rejoint: jui 2020
Messages: 13
Mentions "j'aime": 0
Chicago doesn't have the cap space for kefoot, UFA signing is 7 years max and the most I'd give petro is 5, it makes a lot more sense to keep Engvall than sign Boyle, where's Rodrigues, and
Rielly-Pietrangelo
Muzzin-Lehtonen
Sandin-Holl

would make more sense
25 sep à 13 h 15
#5
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Rejoint: jun 2016
Messages: 5,584
Mentions "j'aime": 3,443
I think you're right about the structure being the concern more than the AAV, but (small potatoes) I think that conversation is about 8x8. Definitely would be weird to see a sign and trade but I'd be happy with that return for the Blues. Without precedents to look at I really don't know what it would look like, but a 3rd or 4th rd pick - or even a 2nd - seems light for the service the Blues would be providing. IMO no one should be trading for his rights, his camp already leaked that he's going to explore FA, and TOR probably has the best odds at signing him if that's something they're going to pursue.
25 sep à 13 h 16
#6
best poster
Rejoint: jui 2019
Messages: 3,353
Mentions "j'aime": 2,145
let's not do a sign and trade. if he truly wants to come to toronto, they can work it out when free agency opens.

simmonds is washed, i'd rather they use that spot from someone in house
Sign_em_up000000 a aimé ceci.
25 sep à 13 h 23
#7
Rejoint: jun 2020
Messages: 1,158
Mentions "j'aime": 396
Sj is not giving up a high quality draft pick for someone they have absolutely zero use for. Just a terrible trade and lazy.
25 sep à 13 h 23
#8
themostleaf33
Rejoint: sep 2020
Messages: 967
Mentions "j'aime": 164
Lol the leafs aren't doing you a favour and giving you a top 15 pick for a sign and trade. Pietrangelo is your problem and you have to deal with it. The leafs will take Schneider with that pick, trade Kerfoot and Johnsson for cap space, and sign Pietrangelo when he walks.
25 sep à 13 h 24
#9
best poster
Rejoint: jui 2019
Messages: 3,353
Mentions "j'aime": 2,145
Quoting: themostleaf33
Lol the leafs aren't doing you a favour and giving you a top 15 pick for a sign and trade. Pietrangelo is your problem and you have to deal with it. The leafs will take Schneider with that pick, trade Kerfoot and Johnsson for cap space, and sign Pietrangelo when he walks.


everyone can laugh at this guy if none of this happens
BCAPP a aimé ceci.
25 sep à 13 h 25
#10
Rejoint: nov 2017
Messages: 10,862
Mentions "j'aime": 4,426
if you want to sign him to an 8 year deal, just trade a 6th for his rights so you can do it instead of a 1st
25 sep à 13 h 28
#11
Rejoint: avr 2019
Messages: 5,220
Mentions "j'aime": 1,241
Quoting: A_K
I think you're right about the structure being the concern more than the AAV, but (small potatoes) I think that conversation is about 8x8. Definitely would be weird to see a sign and trade but I'd be happy with that return for the Blues. Without precedents to look at I really don't know what it would look like, but a 3rd or 4th rd pick - or even a 2nd - seems light for the service the Blues would be providing. IMO no one should be trading for his rights, his camp already leaked that he's going to explore FA, and TOR probably has the best odds at signing him if that's something they're going to pursue.


Makes more sense to trade AP rights to TO along with a 3rd or 4th rnd pick for Liljegren and let TO structure the deal any way they see fit
25 sep à 13 h 33
#12
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Rejoint: jun 2016
Messages: 5,584
Mentions "j'aime": 3,443
Modifié 25 sep à 13 h 39
Quoting: Boomer125
Makes more sense to trade AP rights to TO along with a 3rd or 4th rnd pick for Liljegren and let TO structure the deal any way they see fit


Well if you're not targeting that 8th year to keep the AAV low, then I don't see the point in any kind of trade - hard to see other destinations Petro would want to go to, except maybe some interviews to create an advantage on his contract. Most likely situation is no trade, Leafs manage a bonus-heavy 7-yr deal, obla-di-obla-da.
BCAPP et Sign_em_up000000 a aimé ceci.
25 sep à 13 h 35
#13
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Rejoint: jun 2016
Messages: 5,584
Mentions "j'aime": 3,443
Quoting: themostleaf33
Lol the leafs aren't doing you a favour and giving you a top 15 pick for a sign and trade. Pietrangelo is your problem and you have to deal with it. The leafs will take Schneider with that pick, trade Kerfoot and Johnsson for cap space, and sign Pietrangelo when he walks.


If you're speaking directly to Doug Armstrong, I don't think he's gonna see this. But go off, draft Schneider too early, trade your third liners and replace them with KHLers, and sign Petro to a 9+ AAV.
BCAPP et Sign_em_up000000 a aimé ceci.
25 sep à 13 h 39
#14
Rejoint: mai 2016
Messages: 4,854
Mentions "j'aime": 2,250
How do you do a sign-and-trade? If as you say he gets a full NMC for his first 3 seasons, he will have trade protection and can veto any trade, including this one that sends him to Toronto.
25 sep à 13 h 47
#15
Rejoint: aoû 2019
Messages: 5,301
Mentions "j'aime": 1,681
Lol Dermott for a high second
25 sep à 13 h 47
#16
Rejoint: aoû 2019
Messages: 5,301
Mentions "j'aime": 1,681
Quoting: tkecanuck341
How do you do a sign-and-trade? If as you say he gets a full NMC for his first 3 seasons, he will have trade protection and can veto any trade, including this one that sends him to Toronto.


Their would clearly need to be a legal agreement that he would waive
25 sep à 13 h 48
#17
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 4,323
Mentions "j'aime": 1,300
Quoting: newballcoach
No chance I'm giving up a first in a sign-and-trade. MAYBE if Pietrangelo agrees to a deal ahead of time and it's structured to provide some benefit for the Leafs, but it's too significant an asset to lose (when you could potentially get the same player for nothing in two weeks). If somebody signed him, well then you could use that first to upgrade your blueline in a different way (and probably for a player who is cheaper).

They can structure bonuses however they want (don't have to be signing). They could give him a Halloween bonus if they want to, and maybe even pretend it's for having the best costume.


I don't think you are correct about the Halloween thing.

The advantage to the Leafs is his cap hit is 1 mil less. And of course in a sign and trade if they don't do it perhaps someone else like Vegas would
25 sep à 13 h 48
#18
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 4,323
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
How do you do a sign-and-trade? If as you say he gets a full NMC for his first 3 seasons, he will have trade protection and can veto any trade, including this one that sends him to Toronto.


It would have to be part of the deal of course
25 sep à 13 h 49
#19
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 4,323
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Quoting: Oodz
I dont think Dermott is worth a second, maybe a third-fourth.


I really don't get this. He's a 23 year old defenseman who can play both sides with offensive upside and has played well in tough minutes in his short looks with Rielly and muzzin injured.

I'm not sure why people think he's like Carrick or whatever
Sign_em_up000000 a aimé ceci.
25 sep à 13 h 50
#20
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Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 4,323
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Quoting: WorstTradesPossible
There can be signing bonuses in the first year and STL would NOT be on the hook for them because they would be paid when the first year of the contract starts (after Pietro is already traded), not when the contract is signed. You're confusing an extension (which this is) with a normal FA/July 1st type signing.


Thanks for the clarification!
WorstTradesPossible a aimé ceci.
25 sep à 13 h 50
#21
Rejoint: avr 2017
Messages: 10,981
Mentions "j'aime": 3,256
Hawks don't want Kerfoot even if we trade strome unless he's it's a late 3rd or 4th.
25 sep à 13 h 51
#22
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 4,323
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Quoting: ZAK98
Chicago doesn't have the cap space for kefoot, UFA signing is 7 years max and the most I'd give petro is 5, it makes a lot more sense to keep Engvall than sign Boyle, where's Rodrigues, and
Rielly-Pietrangelo
Muzzin-Lehtonen
Sandin-Holl

would make more sense


Rodriguez is NOT worth his qo.

Engvall is better than Boyle but not 450k better
Sign_em_up000000 a aimé ceci.
25 sep à 13 h 51
#23
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 4,323
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Quoting: ZAK98
Chicago doesn't have the cap space for kefoot, UFA signing is 7 years max and the most I'd give petro is 5, it makes a lot more sense to keep Engvall than sign Boyle, where's Rodrigues, and
Rielly-Pietrangelo
Muzzin-Lehtonen
Sandin-Holl

would make more sense


Sorry and that the 7 vs 8 years is the point of the sign and trade
25 sep à 13 h 52
#24
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 4,323
Mentions "j'aime": 1,300
Quoting: mondo
let's not do a sign and trade. if he truly wants to come to toronto, they can work it out when free agency opens.

simmonds is washed, i'd rather they use that spot from someone in house


Again see my title I doubt it happens. I believe it would literally be an NHL first

That being said the value to the Leafs is cutting 1 mil off his cap hit by adding the 8th year
25 sep à 13 h 54
#25
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Quoting: themostleaf33
Lol the leafs aren't doing you a favour and giving you a top 15 pick for a sign and trade. Pietrangelo is your problem and you have to deal with it. The leafs will take Schneider with that pick, trade Kerfoot and Johnsson for cap space, and sign Pietrangelo when he walks.


I'm a Leafs fan.

I am incredibly leery of Schneider as he sounds an awful lot like Schenn and the like. They often don't pan out.

Regardless the value here would be essentially saving 1 mil on pietros cap hit and getting a cheap 3c
 
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