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What If Everyone Took Less To Win

Créé par: AnalyticsGeek
Équipe: 2020-21 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 21 sept. 2020
Publié: 21 sept. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
I decided to make this post because I’ve seen a lot of Leaf fans (and hockey fans in general) turn against John Tavares and downplay his quality as a player. In my opinion, there should be no regrets at the fact the Leafs brought him in. At the time of signing, he was a franchise level player and a top 10 center in the league. He was worth whatever teams were willing to offer, and he actually took less to sign in Toronto (was reported NYI and San Jose offered him around 13 Million). You don’t pass up the opportunity to sign a player of that caliber, especially if you don’t need to give up assets.

Where the Leafs went wrong was their decisions after signing him. They should’ve traded Nazem Kadri while he had peak value to a team in need of a solid top line center. Maybe send him, a 1st and a defensive prospect for one of Dougie Hamilton or Ryan Ellis or Jared Spurgeon. Obviously they ended up paying Marner 2 Million more than his maximum value as well which added to their wounds.

For the most part, Tavares has performed up to his contract’s worth since signing it. In 2018/19 he was statistically the team’s best player as he drove offence at a level similar to Artemi Panarin, one of the front runners for the Hart. This season, he struggled during the 1st month, but that was mostly because his linemate Marner was playing at a below replacement level. He did well after that and was noticeable during the play in. In conclusion, Tavares is not the reason why the Leafs are in a difficult situation. He is the only one out of the big 4 who you can legitimately say took a pay cut to sign with the team. There were lots of things that went wrong under Shanahan’s tenure, but the Tavares signing wasn’t one of them.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
21 850 000 $
21 300 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
11 500 000 $
1700 000 $
1700 000 $
CRÉÉANSCAP HIT
Marner, Mitchell
47 500 000 $
Nylander, William
36 000 000 $
Matthews, Auston
410 000 000 $
Muzzin, Jake
85 000 000 $
Hamilton, Dougie
15 750 000 $
Brown, Connor
22 850 000 $
Transactions
1.
TOR
    Future Considerations
    OTT
      Nikita Zaitsev
      Jeremy Bracco
      Calle Rosen

      *Done During 2018 Offseason
      2.
      TOR
        Dougie Hamilton
        CGY
          Nazem Kadri
          Travis Dermott
          2019 1st Round Pick

          *Done During 2018 Offseason
          3.
          TOR
            Alexander Kerfoot
            COL
              Semyon Der-Arguchintsev
              2020 2nd Round Pick

              *Done During 2018 Offseason
              4.
              TOR
                Future Considerations
                CAR
                  Patrick Marleau
                  Andreas Johnsson

                  *Done During 2018 Offseason
                  5.
                  ANA
                    Justin Holl
                    2020 1st Round Pick
                    Rachats de contrats
                    Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
                    Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
                    2020
                    Logo de PIT
                    Logo de TOR
                    Logo de TOR
                    Logo de VGK
                    Logo de VGK
                    Logo de TOR
                    Logo de CAR
                    Logo de COL
                    Logo de SJS
                    Logo de STL
                    Logo de WPG
                    2021
                    Logo de TOR
                    Logo de TOR
                    Logo de TOR
                    Logo de TOR
                    Logo de TOR
                    Logo de TOR
                    2022
                    Logo de TOR
                    Logo de TOR
                    Logo de TOR
                    Logo de TOR
                    Logo de TOR
                    Logo de TOR
                    Logo de TOR
                    TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
                    2381 500 000 $79 329 167 $0 $400 000 $2 170 833 $

                    Formation

                    Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    2 250 000 $2 250 000 $
                    AD, AG
                    M-NTC
                    UFA - 1
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    11 000 000 $11 000 000 $
                    C, AG
                    NMC
                    UFA - 5
                    Marner, Mitchell
                    7 500 000 $7 500 000 $
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    821 667 $821 667 $
                    AG, AD
                    RFA - 4
                    Matthews, Auston
                    10 000 000 $10 000 000 $
                    Nylander, William
                    6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    1 850 000 $1 850 000 $
                    AG, AD
                    UFA - 2
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
                    AG, C, AD
                    UFA - 3
                    Brown, Connor
                    2 850 000 $2 850 000 $
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    1 250 000 $1 250 000 $
                    AD, AG
                    UFA - 2
                    1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
                    C
                    UFA - 1
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    1 300 000 $1 300 000 $
                    AG, C
                    UFA - 1
                    Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
                    DG
                    M-NTC
                    UFA - 2
                    Hamilton, Dougie
                    5 750 000 $5 750 000 $
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
                    G
                    M-NTC
                    UFA - 1
                    Muzzin, Jake
                    5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
                    Logo de Ducks d'Anaheim
                    2 050 000 $2 050 000 $
                    DD
                    M-NTC
                    UFA - 2
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    1 650 000 $1 650 000 $
                    G
                    UFA - 2
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    894 167 $894 167 $
                    DG
                    UFA - 2
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance400 000 $$400K)
                    DD
                    RFA - 2
                    Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
                    700 000 $700 000 $
                    AD, AG
                    UFA - 1
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    10 903 000 $10 903 000 $
                    AD
                    UFA - 5
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    700 000 $700 000 $
                    C, AD
                    UFA - 1
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    6 962 366 $6 962 366 $
                    AD
                    UFA - 4
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    700 000 $700 000 $
                    DG
                    UFA - 1
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    3 400 000 $3 400 000 $
                    AG, AD
                    UFA - 3
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    11 640 250 $11 640 250 $
                    C
                    UFA - 4
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    5 625 000 $5 625 000 $
                    DG
                    NMC
                    UFA - 4
                    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
                    2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
                    DD
                    M-NTC
                    UFA - 3

                    Unités spéciales

                    Avantage numérique 1
                    Nylander, W.
                    Matthews, A.
                    Marner, M.
                    Avantage numérique 2
                    Hamilton, D.
                    Infériorité numérique 1
                    Muzzin, J.
                    Infériorité numérique 2
                    Brown, C.
                    Hamilton, D.

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                    21 sept. 2020 à 23 h 24
                    #26
                    Avatar de l'utilisateur
                    Rejoint: mars 2020
                    Messages: 2,679
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                    Not bad
                    22 sept. 2020 à 8 h 44
                    #27
                    HabsFan
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                    Rejoint: juill. 2017
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                    Quoting: vr1995
                    if you consider this offensive depth "very bad" im very curious to hear what you have to say about montreals offensive depth


                    The point was not to know IF MTL is a contender Bros... but yes this team is WAY better than now but I agree for the bottom 6 I felt than you need more body check and hits to increase the pressure against other team defense.
                    22 sept. 2020 à 9 h 46
                    #28
                    Biased Opinion
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                    Contender for sure, which is the highest rating I'm willing to give any team since the playoffs are random as hell.
                    22 sept. 2020 à 10 h 3
                    #29
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                    Rejoint: avr. 2018
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                    First, thank you for asking for my opinion.
                    Second, hard to lament the past.
                    As a Sabre fan, I wish we never hired DATM. He set the rebuild back by 4 to 5 years, when the team he built finished last in the Atlantic then last in the league.
                    Third, Zaitsev and Marleau were good signing that did not work out as well as expected.
                    Fourth, Tavares was definitely not the problem. He made Matt Moulson into an all star, he could get a chair to score 20 goals.

                    The plan was to win the cup in the next couple of years with Marleau providing the necessary leadership as a player who had been through the playoff battle many times.
                    The 2018-'19 team was awesome.
                    Four great centers, four awesome RW, above average LW, and undeniably a solid defense with Muzzin, Reilley, Gardiner and Zaitsev.
                    It just did not work out.
                    On paper that was a great team, it was built to win it that year, that had to be broken up for cap reasons the following year.
                    All Leaf fans should look back on that team and reflect, "Holy Cow That Was a Great Team."

                    Boston was not where near as deep as the Leafs. I only watched a few of the games as I was more of a Sabres fan, but a little luck in any of the 4 losses and it may have been their cup year.
                    GM's have to build for today, as their may not be a tomorrow.

                    Let me add, my Sabres team of 2005-'06 was the best in the NHL that year.
                    But injuries to 5 defensemen allowed the Canes to beat them and win the cup.
                    The following year, they won the Presidents cup and lost to Ottawa.
                    Briere and Drury left via free agency and the team has not been the same since then.
                    Bad things happen to good teams.
                    Bad things happened to your 2018-'19 Leafs but they were awesome.

                    Well that is my two cents.
                    I hope it is coherent.
                    22 sept. 2020 à 15 h 1
                    #30
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                    Rejoint: juin 2015
                    Messages: 115
                    Mentions "j'aime": 19
                    Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
                    Sorry for the tag guys but please let me know your thoughts on this team. Are they Stanley Cup caliber on paper?


                    stop tagging me pls
                    23 sept. 2020 à 10 h 58
                    #31
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                    Rejoint: avr. 2017
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                    I like the D, putting the kids on the 3rd pairing is how you grow them. Like the L/R splits too.

                    The bottom six are still a big ? Can Koivu still play his D role a year later (he was still a positive player for MIN last season)? If not, I do not trust the bottom six to play in any tight games. I like Mik and Brown, but the rest of the bottom 6 could be a dumpster fire (if Koivu isn't at last year's level).

                    I think in this scenario TOR needs some cup winners in the bottom 6. Guys that have lifted a cup, maybe have multiple SCF visits. The skill at the top is great, but as we've seen multiple times, you need to learn how to win the cup, and skill can't overcome that.
                    23 sept. 2020 à 15 h 55
                    #32
                    Démarrer sujet
                    Banni
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                    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
                    You do realize that the zaitsev trade was done how it was because no one would take him for free, right?


                    Quoting: Alfie11
                    Team is better, dunno if it beats Tampa though. Not sure how you can go back in time and give everybody less money while dumping Zaitsev for free and Marleau for cheap a year before they actually got dealt as well


                    In hindsight, the Leafs would be dumping Zaitsev for free but at the time, Bracco was one of their top forward prospects so it was quite a price.
                    23 sept. 2020 à 15 h 57
                    #33
                    Démarrer sujet
                    Banni
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                    Quoting: HatterTParty
                    Ehhh, top six looks great obviously. Defense is very well put together, although Sandin and lily might be a question mark come playoffs. Ironically, the biggest thing I’d be worried about is actually Freddy. I know that might sounds crazy, given the bottom six is slightly thin, but Freddy is a huge question mark in the playoffs. Other than that, I do think this team is more improved. Grit is still missing, but balance is definitely more prevelant.


                    Thanks for the feedback. I think the issue with Freddy during the 2 series vs Boston was that he got overwhelmed by the heavy workload and ended up giving soft goals. Columbus this year was a totally different scenario obviously. They definitely need him at their best to win in the playoffs.
                    23 sept. 2020 à 16 h 0
                    #34
                    Démarrer sujet
                    Banni
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                    Rejoint: sept. 2019
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                    Quoting: gretzkyghosts
                    First, thank you for asking for my opinion.
                    Second, hard to lament the past.
                    As a Sabre fan, I wish we never hired DATM. He set the rebuild back by 4 to 5 years, when the team he built finished last in the Atlantic then last in the league.
                    Third, Zaitsev and Marleau were good signing that did not work out as well as expected.
                    Fourth, Tavares was definitely not the problem. He made Matt Moulson into an all star, he could get a chair to score 20 goals.

                    The plan was to win the cup in the next couple of years with Marleau providing the necessary leadership as a player who had been through the playoff battle many times.
                    The 2018-'19 team was awesome.
                    Four great centers, four awesome RW, above average LW, and undeniably a solid defense with Muzzin, Reilley, Gardiner and Zaitsev.
                    It just did not work out.
                    On paper that was a great team, it was built to win it that year, that had to be broken up for cap reasons the following year.
                    All Leaf fans should look back on that team and reflect, "Holy Cow That Was a Great Team."

                    Boston was not where near as deep as the Leafs. I only watched a few of the games as I was more of a Sabres fan, but a little luck in any of the 4 losses and it may have been their cup year.
                    GM's have to build for today, as their may not be a tomorrow.

                    Let me add, my Sabres team of 2005-'06 was the best in the NHL that year.
                    But injuries to 5 defensemen allowed the Canes to beat them and win the cup.
                    The following year, they won the Presidents cup and lost to Ottawa.
                    Briere and Drury left via free agency and the team has not been the same since then.
                    Bad things happen to good teams.
                    Bad things happened to your 2018-'19 Leafs but they were awesome.

                    Well that is my two cents.
                    I hope it is coherent.


                    Thanks for the feedback. I agree, the 2018-19 was really stacked on paper. During the first 3 months of the season, they were firing on all cylinders and were on pace for like 110 points. According to @palhal, after Nylander signed his contract the team was mediocre, I guess there was more pressure on all the players after another star player joined.
                    gretzkyghosts a aimé ceci.
                    23 sept. 2020 à 16 h 3
                    #35
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                    Banni
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                    Quoting: Howisbergevinstillhere
                    Defence is much improved but offensive depth is scary bad and still no size. Not sure how far they go.


                    Quoting: TMarch
                    I like the D, putting the kids on the 3rd pairing is how you grow them. Like the L/R splits too.

                    The bottom six are still a big ? Can Koivu still play his D role a year later (he was still a positive player for MIN last season)? If not, I do not trust the bottom six to play in any tight games. I like Mik and Brown, but the rest of the bottom 6 could be a dumpster fire (if Koivu isn't at last year's level).

                    I think in this scenario TOR needs some cup winners in the bottom 6. Guys that have lifted a cup, maybe have multiple SCF visits. The skill at the top is great, but as we've seen multiple times, you need to learn how to win the cup, and skill can't overcome that.


                    Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I guess the bottom 6 can always improve but it's good enough for my liking because you have proven NHL level talent and they have an identity. All are really fast, forechecking and defensively reliable players.
                    23 sept. 2020 à 16 h 31
                    #36
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                    Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
                    In hindsight, the Leafs would be dumping Zaitsev for free but at the time, Bracco was one of their top forward prospects so it was quite a price.

                    Bracco’s value was at its peak during the 2019 offseason, when Zaitsev was traded, and he was not part of the package because Ottawa wanted Brown.
                    23 sept. 2020 à 16 h 51
                    #37
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                    Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
                    In hindsight, the Leafs would be dumping Zaitsev for free but at the time, Bracco was one of their top forward prospects so it was quite a price.


                    Yeah, there was no way that was ever an option
                     
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