Is not Pietro crippling cap-wise like signing a star center after

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Créé par: Britishbulldog

Équipe: 2020-21 Maple Leafs de Toronto

Date de création initiale: 20 sept. 2020

Publié: 20 sept. 2020

Mode - plafond salarial: Basique

Description

These scenarios to get Pietrangelo seems to absolutely destroy Toronto's cap for the next 7 years. The last two or three of which he would be on a serious decline skill wise.

Listening to Kypreos podcast with MacLean it really was a key point with them saying that signing Tavares, even as a star center, hurt the Leaf's cap-wise because they had just drafted a franchise center in Matthews making Tavares unnecessary. Matthews would be home grown, Kadri was homegrown and had been scoring 30 goal seasons and then had a down year here last year but was back on pace today for another 30 goal season if you pro rate his goals against the 51 games.

Now fans are willing to look past $2.5 million to $5.5 million defencemen available and want to sign one guy reportedly wanting up to $9 million plus to a contract way past his prime??

How much will homegrown Rielly want on his next contract if the Leafs are willing to give a 30 year old defenceman such huge money?

I had been hearing that Matthews was going to be looking for "Eichel-esque" money which I thought it was a ludicrous amount. I thought NO player would be signed to 8 digit contracts as that team would be hamstrung cap-wise. Then Dubas of course signed Tavares for even MORE than Eichel!! If Dubas hadn't signed Tavares I feel that the Leafs would have had some growing pains with the youth but would have signed Matthews for a bit more than Eichel (something like $10,634,000) for 8 years, Marner would have come in a bit less (probably a bit more than Kypreos's $8.5 MIL but not much more) for 8 years, I thought that Nylander would have come in between $6 and $6.5 MIL but Dubas has him close to that and Kadri would have been here for $4.5 MIL still.

If Tavares was never signed I realize that we would see 15 less goals with Kadri as 2nd line center but Rielly would be captain, there would be lots of cap space to trade for or sign anything the Leafs needed and we would be seeing an 8 year window just starting to open.

This year the Leafs would be drafting Schneider @ 15 OA, Sandin and Liljegren would be developing on the Marlies and we would be discussing what RHD UFA the Leafs could sign with the HUGE cap space. [/rant]

Short rant: I am not sure Leafs should sign Pietrangelo with Tavares on the team

Signatures de joueurs autonomes

RFA		ANS	CAP HIT
Rodrigues, Evan		2	1 000 000 $
Mikheyev, Ilya		2	1 500 000 $

UFA		ANS	CAP HIT
Spezza, Jason		1	700 000 $

CRÉÉ	ANS	CAP HIT
Marner, Mitch	7	9 000 000 $
Matthews, Auston	7	10 634 000 $
Placeholder, Centerman	3	3 000 000 $

Transactions

TOR

Kadri, Nazem
Choix de 3e ronde en 2020 (TOR)

COL

Tavares, John

TOR

Traded to any team for picks or players

ANA

Bracco, Jeremy [Droits de RFA]
Dermott, Travis [Droits de RFA]
Johnsson, Andreas

Rachats de contrats

Mikhail Grabovski: 0 $

Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire

Phil Kessel: 1 200 000 $ (15%)

Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2020
2021
2022

FORMATION

VUE À LONG TERME

INTÉGRÉ

TEXTE INTÉGRÉ

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
19	81 500 000 $	64 643 033 $	0 $	0 $	16 856 967 $

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Hyman, Zach 2 250 000 $2 250 000 $ AD, AG M-NTC UFA - 1	Matthews, Auston 10 634 000 $10 634 000 $	Marner, Mitch 9 000 000 $9 000 000 $
Mikheyev, Ilya 1 500 000 $1 500 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 2	Kadri, Nazem 4 500 000 $4 500 000 $ C M-NTC UFA - 2	Nylander, William 6 962 366 $6 962 366 $ AD UFA - 4
Robertson, Nicholas 821 667 $821 667 $ AG, AD RFA - 4		Barabanov, Alexander 925 000 $925 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 1
		Rodrigues, Evan 1 000 000 $1 000 000 $ AG, C UFA - 1
Engvall, Pierre 1 250 000 $1 250 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 2	Placeholder, Centerman 3 000 000 $3 000 000 $
	Spezza, Jason 700 000 $700 000 $ C, AD UFA - 1

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Muzzin, Jake 5 625 000 $5 625 000 $ DG NMC UFA - 4	Holl, Justin 2 000 000 $2 000 000 $ DD M-NTC UFA - 3	Andersen, Frederik 5 000 000 $5 000 000 $ G M-NTC UFA - 1
Rielly, Morgan 5 000 000 $5 000 000 $ DG M-NTC UFA - 2		Campbell, Jack 1 650 000 $1 650 000 $ G UFA - 2

Lehtonen, Mikko 925 000 $925 000 $ DG UFA - 1

Laissés de côté	Liste des blessés (IR)	Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Marincin, Martin 700 000 $700 000 $ DG UFA - 1		Matthews, Auston 11 640 250 $11 640 250 $ C UFA - 4
		Marner, Mitchell 10 903 000 $10 903 000 $ AD UFA - 5
		Kerfoot, Alexander 3 500 000 $3 500 000 $ AG, C, AD UFA - 3

20 sept. 2020 à 16 h 44

TheEarthmaster

Good Opinion Haver

Rejoint: juin 2018

Messages: 1,831

Mentions "j'aime": 934

Yes, signing Pietrangelo would be stupid for the leafs to do.

With the cap the way it is, this team with Pietrangelo completely implodes in three-four years when Matthews needs another new deal (and probably raise?) and all your peripheral cost controlled pieces are up. Is that worth it? I think I'd rather have a window longer than three years.

However, it seems a lot of leafs fans do not think this way.

The back breaking signing probably wasn't Tavares there. If you were going to get Pietrangelo you probably just don't re-sign Muzzin (gasp!) but it's hard to make that call considering everyone kinda just thought Pietrangelo would stay with the Blues. Not having Tavares now would certainly help but that's looking at things in hindsight (though personally I would not have signed Tavares two years ago)

NMAvsFan et Britishbulldog a aimé ceci.

20 sept. 2020 à 16 h 46

NMAvsFan

Representing the 505

Rejoint: sept. 2020

Messages: 4,485

Mentions "j'aime": 3,677

Nice. Admit what everyone knows: the Tavares deal was dumb and that his contract is something of an albatross, especially for a team like TO. Then, trade him to another team so he can be their albatross. Avs are not going to take on a contract like that when they have Landy and Makar to sign next year and Mac in 3 years. Hard pass from Sakic.

20 sept. 2020 à 16 h 50

JaredOfLondon

Rejoint: mai 2019

Messages: 19,579

Mentions "j'aime": 7,353

Your main issue was that you were listening to kypreos and Maclean

Kotkaniemi15 et Britishbulldog a aimé ceci.

20 sept. 2020 à 16 h 54

Richard88

John 3 16

Rejoint: avr. 2020

Messages: 9,581

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Nah you're good, we'd rather have Kadri at close to 1/3 of the caphit.

Britishbulldog a aimé ceci.

20 sept. 2020 à 16 h 58

leafs101

Rejoint: mai 2019

Messages: 11,202

Mentions "j'aime": 5,207

I think the condition is that IF we get Pietrangelo, eventually, whether its this offseason or next, it means that one of Nylander or Marner gets traded to restore the balance

20 sept. 2020 à 17 h 16

chungus

Rejoint: août 2020

Messages: 2,499

Mentions "j'aime": 2,085

people acting like the we're stuck with the Tavares contract smh

In his last 2 seasons as a leaf, Tavares had 73 goals, 75 assists (148 points) in 145 games.
In his last 2 seasons as a leaf, Kadri had 48 goals, 51 assists (99 points) in 153 games.

Playoff stats
In his last 2 playoff series as a leaf, Tavares had 4 goals, 4 assists (8 points) in 13 games.
In his last 2 playoff series as a leaf, Kadri was suspended and cost his team the series two years in a row. (1 goal, 3 assists in 6 games, two 5 minute majors at critical points in 2 games)

I would take Tavares every single day of the week. You're also forgetting Kadri has 2 seasons left before he needs a new contract at 32 years old.
Tavares is locked up until he is 34 (5 more years). He brings effort, professionalism, and skill/goal scoring ability that Kadri never could.

I wish we had Kadri on the team, I hate that we traded him. But, between the two guys, I'm taking Tavares all day every day

20 sept. 2020 à 17 h 30

Kotkaniemi15

Former Hockey Fan

Rejoint: juin 2017

Messages: 13,144

Mentions "j'aime": 10,516

Quoting: JaredOfLondon

Your main issue was that you were listening to kypreos and Maclean

Yeah. I was going to read the full description, but then I got to that part, and I just said “Nope.”

Those guys were fired for a reason.

20 sept. 2020 à 17 h 30

Leafsfan16

Rejoint: juin 2020

Messages: 1,125

Mentions "j'aime": 304

Honestly I would love to have Pietrangelo on the Leafs but we cant be sacrificing depth to pay someone already in his 30's 9 - 10 mill and we are already paying 3 players over 10 mill.

Britishbulldog et chungus a aimé ceci.

20 sept. 2020 à 17 h 49

noobmaster69

Rejoint: juin 2018

Messages: 1,340

Mentions "j'aime": 136

A lot of people are forgetting how much covid affected the leafs plans, the cap would probably be going up to about 84-85 M. Giving the team more flexibility to sign an RHD. Then the following year with the expansion if covid didn't happen I could see the cap to around 86-87M. Dubai couldn't have predicted a pandemic.

Britishbulldog et chungus a aimé ceci.

20 sept. 2020 à 18 h 15

#10

Britishbulldog

Démarrer sujet

C,mon Leafs...Please

Rejoint: juin 2015

Messages: 836

Mentions "j'aime": 329

Quoting: NMAvsFan

Opps! I wasn't trying to pawn off Tavares on the Avs, I was simply trying to reverse Tavares signing and get Kadri in the lineup as if Tavares hadn't happened.

The value definitely isn't there for Colorado.

20 sept. 2020 à 18 h 21

#11

Richard88

John 3 16

Rejoint: avr. 2020

Messages: 9,581

Mentions "j'aime": 4,618

Quoting: Lyle_Bubas

Kadri 2020 playoffs: 9 goals + 9 assists (18 points) in 15 games, including 5 GWG's.

Yeah, you're good....

Keep in mind that in a cap league the comparison isn't just Tavares vs Kadri... it's Tavares vs Kadri + $6.5m capspace (eg. that's equivalent to Landeskog+Graves this season, or Landeskog + an ELC like Makar/Kaut). So again, I take the Kadri contract any day of the week on this Colorado team.

NMAvsFan a aimé ceci.

20 sept. 2020 à 18 h 41

#12

Britishbulldog

Démarrer sujet

C,mon Leafs...Please

Rejoint: juin 2015

Messages: 836

Mentions "j'aime": 329

Quoting: ASoftDumpInTheCorner

Yeah, I heard that the projections were $84.5 last year and $88 this year. Would have been a whole different situation for sure...

noobmaster69 a aimé ceci.

20 sept. 2020 à 18 h 44

#13

Britishbulldog

Démarrer sujet

C,mon Leafs...Please

Rejoint: juin 2015

Messages: 836

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Quoting: Lyle_Bubas

Quoting: Richard88

That's the tough pill to swallow as a Leafs fan. I had been waiting for that playoff performance for 3 years. It would have at least propelled the Leafs past the Bruins last year. It was so frustrating when he got suspended both playoffs.

noobmaster69, chungus et Richard88 a aimé ceci.

20 sept. 2020 à 18 h 55

#14

chungus

Rejoint: août 2020

Messages: 2,499

Mentions "j'aime": 2,085

Quoting: Richard88

Kadri 2020 playoffs: 9 goals + 9 assists (18 points) in 15 games, including 5 GWG's.

Quoting: Richard88

Keep in mind that in a cap league the comparison isn't just Tavares vs Kadri... it's Tavares vs Kadri + $6.5m capspace (eg. that's equivalent to Landeskog+Graves this season, or Landeskog + an ELC like Makar/Kaut). So again, I take the Kadri contract any day of the week on this Colorado team.

What will Kadri's extension look like when he's 32? Factor that into the cap difference as well, because we'd have had to sign him as well, if we'd kept him. Tavares on a bad day produces gobs more offense than Kadri ever could. The only time Kadri was above average was when he played 2 seasons with marner, who ironically seems to give every centre he plays with a career year lmao

Kadri might be a better fit in Colorado, but the idea that signing Tavares somehow hurt the team is silly. Kadri's production most years was replaced by Kerfoot (who had a god awful injury plagued year this season, I expect a bounce back from him). Barrie was an utter bust. I wish that trade never happened, but like... I would take John freaking Tavares at 11m for 5 years on my team every single day of the week over Kadri at 4.5 for 2 more.

Also, as was said above, if the cap had gone up, the leafs would've actually been totally fine. Even in a flat cap scenario, they can still make it work, while maintaining the one-two punch of Matthews/Tavares. The idea was Tavares' contract got better every year as the cap increased. It's tougher with the flat cap, but the guy is still a franchise centre and a superstar.

Britishbulldog a aimé ceci.

20 sept. 2020 à 19 h 28

#15

Richard88

John 3 16

Rejoint: avr. 2020

Messages: 9,581

Mentions "j'aime": 4,618

Quoting: Lyle_Bubas

For all we know, Kadri these playoffs may have been a total outlier. His whole career he has been not much of an impact guy (partially because of the costly suspensions maybe). Even this regular season, he only had about 20 goals/36 points.

What will Kadri's extension look like when he's 32? Factor that into the cap difference as well, because we'd have had to sign him as well, if we'd kept him. Tavares on a bad day produces gobs more offense than Kadri ever could. The only time Kadri was above average was when he played 2 seasons with marner, who ironically seems to give every centre he plays with a career year lmao

Kadri might be a better fit in Colorado, but the idea that signing Tavares somehow hurt the team is silly. Kadri's production most years was replaced by Kerfoot (who had a god awful injury plagued year this season, I expect a bounce back from him). Barrie was an utter bust. I wish that trade never happened, but like... I would take John freaking Tavares at 11m for 5 years on my team every single day of the week over Kadri at 4.5 for 2 more.

Also, as was said above, if the cap had gone up, the leafs would've actually been totally fine. Even in a flat cap scenario, they can still make it work, while maintaining the one-two punch of Matthews/Tavares. The idea was Tavares' contract got better every year as the cap increased. It's tougher with the flat cap, but the guy is still a franchise centre and a superstar.

20 goals and 36 points is nothing to be sneered at considering that it came in 51 games. That's 32 goal and 58 point pace, which is absolutely golden for a 2C.

Tavares produces more offense sure, but we don't need more offense from our 2C. Our team is already among the highest scoring teams in the league (if not THE highest scoring team, when healthy).

I never said that Tavares hurt your team. I simply said that Kadri is a better fit for Colorado, and has ~1/3 of the caphit.

Kadri most likely won't be resigned by Colorado as we'll have Newhook take his place. Kadri's term is actually perfect in that respect.

chungus et Britishbulldog a aimé ceci.

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