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Something Different

Créé par: Mr_Gardoki
Équipe: 2020-21 Penguins de Pittsburgh
Date de création initiale: 19 sept. 2020
Publié: 19 sept. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Montreal needs to shed an LD and Hornqvist could be a good veteran presence.
Winnipeg needs a quality LD.
CGY needs a goalie.
Kovalchuk helps the Pens' PP.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
2900 000 $
33 250 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
11 000 000 $
55 000 000 $
Transactions
1.
2.
PIT
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2020 (WPG)
3.
PIT
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2020 (CGY)
CGY
  1. Murray, Matt [Droits de RFA]
4.
PIT
  1. Choix de 5e ronde en 2020 (BUF)
BUF
  1. Lafferty, Sam [Droits de RFA]
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2020
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2021
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2022
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $73 565 000 $0 $850 000 $7 935 000 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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4 500 000 $4 500 000 $
AG, AD
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9 500 000 $9 500 000 $
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NMC
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3 200 000 $3 200 000 $
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UFA - 2
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5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
AG, AD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
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8 700 000 $8 700 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 5
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3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 2
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
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UFA
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2 940 000 $2 940 000 $
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1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
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750 000 $750 000 $
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UFA - 1
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3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
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900 000 $900 000 $
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UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
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4 100 000 $4 100 000 $
DG
M-NTC
UFA - 3
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7 250 000 $7 250 000 $
DD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 2
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1 250 000 $1 250 000 $
G
UFA - 2
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1 750 000 $1 750 000 $
DG/DD
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UFA - 2
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925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
DD
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1 150 000 $1 150 000 $
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1 150 000 $1 150 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
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700 000 $700 000 $
DD
UFA - 1

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19 sept. 2020 à 16 h 52
#1
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Lafferty is no more worth a 5th round pick than Bjugstad was. He is worth a conditional 7th if someone wants to take a flyer on him
19 sept. 2020 à 16 h 55
#2
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Banni
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Quoting: dzmets
Lafferty is no more worth a 5th round pick than Bjugstad was. He is worth a conditional 7th if someone wants to take a flyer on him


Different situations regarding Bjugstad. Apples and Oranges, but honestly I don't care. That's seriously the most minor part of what I did I could care less if he goes for a 7th.
19 sept. 2020 à 17 h 27
#3
Cold spaghetti
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Jets accept. Pettersson is a solid blue liner
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19 sept. 2020 à 17 h 49
#4
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MTL might have to move a LHD but Chiarot isn't that guy.

Also they really don't need a "veteran presence". They already have Weber, Price, Petry, Byron and Gallagher for that. And finally if Hornqvist can't keep up with the pens forwards he definitely can't do so with MTL.
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19 sept. 2020 à 18 h 18
#5
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Any roster that still has Jack Johnson on it, was a waste of time because this team ain't competing when he sinks them every year.

Also have no idea why you wasted a Pettersson trade for nothing. Seems terrible as well.
19 sept. 2020 à 18 h 25
#6
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Modifié 19 sept. 2020 à 19 h 19
Quoting: jboyd919
Any roster that still has Jack Johnson on it, was a waste of time because this team ain't competing when he sinks them every year.

Also have no idea why you wasted a Pettersson trade for nothing. Seems terrible as well.


Johnson isn't going anywhere. Anyone who does an armchair with intent of it reflecting reality and does a buyout or trade is just kidding themselves.

As far as Pettersson goes, this is a tough situation to upgrade the 3rd line and be able to move on from Hornqvist. He's still a decent player, but I just don't think he fits the Pens' style anymore. Pettersson gets a 2nd round pick. I think that's pretty good. What more would you add to that trade without the Pens having to take salary back?
19 sept. 2020 à 19 h 42
#7
You know nothing JS
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That Chiarot trade.... LOL good luck to get rid of this awefull contract and get a first pair Dman in exchange. Jebus...
19 sept. 2020 à 22 h 44
#8
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Banni
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Quoting: jpsnow13
That Chiarot trade.... LOL good luck to get rid of this awefull contract and get a first pair Dman in exchange. Jebus...


Chiarot is not a 1st pairing dman.
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19 sept. 2020 à 23 h 22
#9
You know nothing JS
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
Chiarot is not a 1st pairing dman.


Remember when that non-first pair neutralized Pittsburgh offense and went foward to the playoff rounds? You should, it wasn't so far ago...
20 sept. 2020 à 11 h 29
#10
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Quoting: jpsnow13
Remember when that non-first pair neutralized Pittsburgh offense and went foward to the playoff rounds? You should, it wasn't so far ago...


For whatever reason Pittsburgh lost, Chiarot is not a 1st pairing dman. You're just wrong, sorry.
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20 sept. 2020 à 15 h 35
#11
You know nothing JS
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
For whatever reason Pittsburgh lost, Chiarot is not a 1st pairing dman. You're just wrong, sorry.


Wow. Such denial ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
20 sept. 2020 à 15 h 35
#12
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Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
For whatever reason Pittsburgh lost, Chiarot is not a 1st pairing dman. You're just wrong, sorry.


Chiarot isn't a 1st pairing defensemen, but Hornqvist is washed up and worth nothing.
21 sept. 2020 à 7 h 51
#13
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Quoting: LumberJacques
MTL might have to move a LHD but Chiarot isn't that guy.

Also they really don't need a "veteran presence". They already have Weber, Price, Petry, Byron and Gallagher for that. And finally if Hornqvist can't keep up with the pens forwards he definitely can't do so with MTL.


hornqvist isn't the guy for MTL, I'd agree, but Chiarot sucks, he wouldn't be the reason to not do a trade lol
21 sept. 2020 à 7 h 56
#14
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Quoting: jpsnow13
Remember when that non-first pair neutralized Pittsburgh offense and went foward to the playoff rounds? You should, it wasn't so far ago...


remember when that first pairing d man was the only Habs d man to not have an above 50% GF% and had the highest xGA/60 and GA/60 among all habs defenders (at 5v5 in the playoffs, all sits he was far worse, and regular season he wasn't great)
21 sept. 2020 à 9 h 16
#15
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Quoting: Dan10900
hornqvist isn't the guy for MTL, I'd agree, but Chiarot sucks, he wouldn't be the reason to not do a trade lol


Sure he's not a world beater but he was still MTL's best LHD by a long shot this season. Mete and Kulak have had stretches where they played well in the top 4 but also have struggled with consistency and can't be counted on to fill that role for a whole season.

So yeah, for now Chiarot has his spot and shouldn't be dealt IMO.
21 sept. 2020 à 9 h 18
#16
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Quoting: LumberJacques
Sure he's not a world beater but he was still MTL's best LHD by a long shot this season. Mete and Kulak have had stretches where they played well in the top 4 but also have struggled with consistency and can't be counted on to fill that role for a whole season.

So yeah, for now Chiarot has his spot and shouldn't be dealt IMO.


Chiarot is more consistent then Mete/Kulak sure, but when that consistency is being consistently meh, and more often then not both Mete and Kulak are significantly better (both of their average impacts were miles better than Chiarot)
21 sept. 2020 à 9 h 30
#17
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Quoting: Dan10900
Chiarot is more consistent then Mete/Kulak sure, but when that consistency is being consistently meh, and more often then not both Mete and Kulak are significantly better (both of their average impacts were miles better than Chiarot)


They were also far more sheltered than Chiarot throughout the season. Chiarot gets hard matched to the Crosbys and Malkins while Mete and Kulak more often get the ZAR or McCann matchups. No disrespect to the latter, but the former are far more dangerous and likely to effectively control play.
21 sept. 2020 à 9 h 35
#18
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Quoting: LumberJacques
They were also far more sheltered than Chiarot throughout the season. Chiarot gets hard matched to the Crosbys and Malkins while Mete and Kulak more often get the ZAR or McCann matchups. No disrespect to the latter, but the former are far more dangerous and likely to effectively control play.


QoC is largely irrelevant, if you take out the top and bottom 5% of players QoC, the middle 90% is all within like 0.1 Opp xGF/60, plus didn't Mete play a lot with Weber (and that paid had better results than Chiarot-Weber) and Kulak a lot with Petry, which wouldn't get as tough if deployment, but wouldn't get sheltered at all
21 sept. 2020 à 10 h 18
#19
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Quoting: Dan10900
QoC is largely irrelevant, if you take out the top and bottom 5% of players QoC, the middle 90% is all within like 0.1 Opp xGF/60, plus didn't Mete play a lot with Weber (and that paid had better results than Chiarot-Weber) and Kulak a lot with Petry, which wouldn't get as tough if deployment, but wouldn't get sheltered at all


Yes, in 18-19 Mete played with Weber and had comparable metrics but the biggest difference was Mete's weakness against the cycle. Once the play got set up in the D zone they really struggled to get out. The 19-20 season Mete spent most of the season on the 3rd pair with Kulak, Fleury and Folin mostly. He also had a stint in the AHL.

Chiarot on the other hand is weaker at rush defense but much stronger against the cycle and in front of the net. He's also strangely better offensively and gets more from Weber offensively as well.

Kulak for his part had played with Petry in 18-19 and did so quite well. This season he struggled a bit to start and was rotated in and out a bit with mixed results. He played really well with Petry in the playoffs and wasn't as sheltered as the regular season. If he had more consistency he'd probably have solidified his top 4 spot by now.

In short both Kulak and Mete thrive in more sheltered 3rd pair roles but have mixed results playing bigger roles. Chiarot's advantage is he rarely makes huge mistakes or turns pucks over in the D zone by keeping it simple. Ideally he'd be better suited to a more fringe top 4 role like a 4-5 Dman facing top competition a bit less but the inconsistent play of the other LHD makes that impossible.
21 sept. 2020 à 10 h 40
#20
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Quoting: LumberJacques
Yes, in 18-19 Mete played with Weber and had comparable metrics but the biggest difference was Mete's weakness against the cycle. Once the play got set up in the D zone they really struggled to get out. The 19-20 season Mete spent most of the season on the 3rd pair with Kulak, Fleury and Folin mostly. He also had a stint in the AHL.

Chiarot on the other hand is weaker at rush defense but much stronger against the cycle and in front of the net. He's also strangely better offensively and gets more from Weber offensively as well.

Kulak for his part had played with Petry in 18-19 and did so quite well. This season he struggled a bit to start and was rotated in and out a bit with mixed results. He played really well with Petry in the playoffs and wasn't as sheltered as the regular season. If he had more consistency he'd probably have solidified his top 4 spot by now.

In short both Kulak and Mete thrive in more sheltered 3rd pair roles but have mixed results playing bigger roles. Chiarot's advantage is he rarely makes huge mistakes or turns pucks over in the D zone by keeping it simple. Ideally he'd be better suited to a more fringe top 4 role like a 4-5 Dman facing top competition a bit less but the inconsistent play of the other LHD makes that impossible.


I haven't watched a ton of the Habs, but assuming what you say about Mete and Chiarot on the rush vs cycle is true, that would make Mete's already better defensive numbers even better, one of the biggest weaknesses of current xG models is not accounting fully for rush chances, which are significantly more dangerous than cycle chances, and Mete already has significantly better xGA than Chiarot, and Chiarot-Weber had a worse GF/60 (31 in 680 mins) than Mete-Weber (16 goals in 290 mins) and was also far worse defensively, being the only pair other than Petry-Chiarot with at least 200 5v5 mins together to have a sub 50% GF%, and had the worst xGF% out of any pair other than the Chiarot-Petry one
21 sept. 2020 à 11 h 14
#21
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Quoting: Dan10900
I haven't watched a ton of the Habs, but assuming what you say about Mete and Chiarot on the rush vs cycle is true, that would make Mete's already better defensive numbers even better, one of the biggest weaknesses of current xG models is not accounting fully for rush chances, which are significantly more dangerous than cycle chances, and Mete already has significantly better xGA than Chiarot, and Chiarot-Weber had a worse GF/60 (31 in 680 mins) than Mete-Weber (16 goals in 290 mins) and was also far worse defensively, being the only pair other than Petry-Chiarot with at least 200 5v5 mins together to have a sub 50% GF%, and had the worst xGF% out of any pair other than the Chiarot-Petry one


What I meant about rush defense was more zone entries and gap control. Mete's skating gives him a great advantage there and he's really good at slowing attackers down and forcing dump-ins. The problems begin when his partner doesn't get to the puck first. He has a really tough time getting the puck off attacking players which usually sets up a fairly long sequence in the D zone.

Mete is solid in a more sheltered role. I still feel a lot more comfortable with Chiarot and Weber on the ice than Mete-Weber though, whether rightly or not.
21 sept. 2020 à 11 h 27
#22
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Banni
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Quoting: Dan10900
hornqvist isn't the guy for MTL, I'd agree, but Chiarot sucks, he wouldn't be the reason to not do a trade lol


I can get on board with Hornqvist not being fit as an argument for my proposal and yes, Chiarot is NOT a 1st pairing dman. I think he's an average #4 guy.
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21 sept. 2020 à 11 h 31
#23
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Banni
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Quoting: jpsnow13
Wow. Such denial ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


If you think Chiarot is any significant reason why the Pens lost to MTL then you are a poor evaluator. I'm in no denial what-so-ever. The Pens didn't play well, MTL executed their system very well and got excellent goaltending from the Price. MTL as TEAM did such a fantastic job of keeping the Pens to the perimeter that while the number of saved Price made were impressive, the quality of what he faced was low because the Pens couldn't get near him, so while Chiarot helped with that, he was far from the main reason they won. He's an average 2nd pairing dman and compensated as such.

So when you see a top offensive line with two top players and one role-player (which is quite common in this era of the NHL), do you believe that role-player is truly a 1st line winger?
 
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