Forums/Armchair-GM

What if we didnt sign JT

Créé par: GladeBang16
Date de création initiale: sep 11, 2020
Publié: 11 sep à 22 h 41
Équipe: 2020-21 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Explications
Just curious to know what other fans think about the Tavares signing... although he is amazing, he has clearly been on the decline and I genuinely believe the leafs would've been much better off without signing him. Kadri was a great 2nd centre on a team-friendly contract and we already had a superstar centre in Matthews. Signing Tavares has clearly created holes in our team such as defense. Perhaps Nylander, Matthews and Marner sign for less if Tavares doesn't set his contract as a standard.
Rachats de contrats
  • Mikhail Grabovski: 0 $
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Phil Kessel: 1 200 000 $ (15%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2021
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2022
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
2023
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TOR
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
1881 500 000 $75 393 533 $0 $400 000 $6 106 467 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
TOR
Johnsson, Andreas
3 400 000 $
AG
UFA - 3
TOR
Matthews, Auston
11 634 000 $
C
UFA - 4
TOR
Marner, Mitchell
10 893 000 $
AD
UFA - 5
TOR
Hyman, Zach
2 250 000 $
AG, AD
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Tavares, John
11 000 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 5
TOR
Nylander, William
6 962 366 $
AD, AG
UFA - 4
TOR
Engvall, Pierre
1 250 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 2
TOR
Kerfoot, Alexander
3 500 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 3
TOR
Robertson, Nicholas
821 667 $
AG
RFA - 3
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
TOR
Muzzin, Jake
5 625 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 4
TOR
Holl, Justin
2 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 3
TOR
Andersen, Frederik
5 000 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 1
TOR
Rielly, Morgan
5 000 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 2
TOR
Liljegren, Timothy
863 333 $
DD
RFA - 2
TOR
Campbell, Jack
1 650 000 $
G
UFA - 2
TOR
Sandin, Rasmus
894 167 $
DG
RFA - 2
TOR
Rosén, Calle
750 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
TOR
Marincin, Martin
700 000 $
DG
UFA - 1

Code d'intégration

  • Pour afficher cette équipe sur un autre site Web ou blog, ajoutez ce iFrame à la page appropriée
  • Personnalisez les dimensions dans le code IFrame ci-dessous pour adapter votre site de manière appropriée. Minimum recommandé: 400px.

Texte intégré

Cliquer pour surligner
11 sep à 22 h 53
#1
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 1,188
Mentions "j'aime": 386
I think it was a decent signing TBH. You have two top centers for the next 4 years. Yes, to allocate 10mil in 3 forwards imo isn’t that smart but you have your forwards “set”. I don’t remember if there was “another guy” that year he was signed but I know he was the big fish. But I’m an outsider so I don’t really know
11 sep à 22 h 54
#2
Terry_AkiSauce
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1,590
Mentions "j'aime": 600
People just claim hes on a decline but realistically had a career year last season and was a ppg this year while being a good leader and our captain. The contract will hurt in 3-4 years but I have no problem with it as of right now
Shanesaw9 a aimé ceci.
11 sep à 22 h 56
#3
Rejoint: déc 2018
Messages: 1,825
Mentions "j'aime": 638
Here's the problem: everyone talks about how getting JT stopped them from getting a defenseman. What defenseman though? Who was on the market that would be worth passing up on JT? Pietrangelo? Nobody is passing on JT to gamble on Pietrangelo ending up in FA 2 years later
Britishbulldog a aimé ceci.
11 sep à 23 h 04
#4
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: jui 2015
Messages: 33,206
Mentions "j'aime": 8,784
Signing JT was never a problem. Leafs for no apparent reason overpaid for Nylander, Matthews and Marner when you look at comparable RFA and their salary and term.
11 sep à 23 h 06
#5
Wiliam Eklund to NYR
Rejoint: oct 2018
Messages: 13,708
Mentions "j'aime": 4,329
I think it really costed them. How are you going to afford to keep Rielly? Andersen? Hyman? With some big ELC coming up like Robertson? Lily? Sandin? Dubas should've kept Matthews and Kadri as their top 2 centers, shored up the defense, then add more offense. His chalkboard read "Tavares" before anything that actually needed work.
11 sep à 23 h 08
#6
wpg
Rejoint: déc 2017
Messages: 1,139
Mentions "j'aime": 450
It was worth end of story, if such a big name go UFA u go for it, the leadership he provides is invaluable
11 sep à 23 h 11
#7
Rejoint: nov 2019
Messages: 195
Mentions "j'aime": 58
With the exception of you saying he’s in decline, you’re not wrong with what you’re saying in hindsight. Definitely possible it reset the numbers for Matthews and Marner. And no way do you move Kadri without having JT there, but how do you not go after him? I didn’t think at the time he was realistic possibility but was pretty happy when we won the bidding war for him. Not signing him probably would have meant not having to get out of Marleau’s deal quite as badly as we ended up needing too and maybe could have used that pick to acquire better defensemen but we’d still would have had to go find a 3C also
11 sep à 23 h 38
#8
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: jui 2015
Messages: 33,206
Mentions "j'aime": 8,784
Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
I think it really costed them. How are you going to afford to keep Rielly? Andersen? Hyman? With some big ELC coming up like Robertson? Lily? Sandin? Dubas should've kept Matthews and Kadri as their top 2 centers, shored up the defense, then add more offense. His chalkboard read "Tavares" before anything that actually needed work.


How to keep those three players? They aren't the Leafs to keep. Gee some teams are having trouble signing their own RFAs, so let's not think the Leafs are unique. I still don't think the Leaf make a Tavares mistake. Just signing the RFAs to comparable league comparables should have been the route to go. If nothing else, trade cap players for low cap assets .
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
11 sep à 23 h 47
#9
Wiliam Eklund to NYR
Rejoint: oct 2018
Messages: 13,708
Mentions "j'aime": 4,329
Quoting: palhal
How to keep those three players? They aren't the Leafs to keep. Gee some teams are having trouble signing their own RFAs, so let's not think the Leafs are unique. I still don't think the Leaf make a Tavares mistake. Just signing the RFAs to comparable league comparables should have been the route to go. If nothing else, trade cap players for low cap assets .


I'm just saying it wasn't technically necessary to allocate that much cap space into non-necessities. Dubas should've prioritized the defense.
11 sep à 23 h 55
#10
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 3,419
Mentions "j'aime": 1,517
Modifié 12 sep à 0 h 51
Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
I'm just saying it wasn't technically necessary to allocate that much cap space into non-necessities. Dubas should've prioritized the defense.


As palhal mentioned in the Post #4, till that point there was enough money to even adress the Defence. Problems began with overpaying Nylander ( which is minor at 300k - 500k ), Matthews by 1,5M ( or two years in Term ) and the DesertQueen-bandwagon jumping Marner also by 1,5M
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
11 sep à 23 h 56
#11
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: jui 2015
Messages: 33,206
Mentions "j'aime": 8,784
Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
I'm just saying it wasn't technically necessary to allocate that much cap space into non-necessities. Dubas should've prioritized the defense.


But Tavares was signed before Nylander, Matthews and Marner. Just trading Nylander for futures...and you got cap space. So you have Tavares for free and you get futures for Nylander plus cap space now.
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
12 sep à 0 h 00
#12
best poster
Rejoint: jui 2019
Messages: 3,590
Mentions "j'aime": 2,429
Quoting: palhal
Signing JT was never a problem. Leafs for no apparent reason overpaid for Nylander, Matthews and Marner when you look at comparable RFA and their salary and term.


12 sep à 0 h 09
#13
best poster
Rejoint: jui 2019
Messages: 3,590
Mentions "j'aime": 2,429
Toronto would still have Kadri and probably Bozak.

They may have gone for a defenseman as well. The prospects in that category were very limited. I think Da Haan was the only worthwhile UFA D in 2018.

Marleau might've ended up still on the team, but his 6 million cap would've been a issue regardless of Tavares being here or not. You'd have him, Johnsson and Kapanen making 12 million.

The Matthews, Marner and Nylander contracts probably wouldn't have been much different. Marner not putting up 94 points would've knocked his value a bit, but estimates in 2018 were putting him at 9 million on his next deal.

So really, they'd have more wiggle room for signing but not much else. I'd bet they'd be in the same place as now.
12 sep à 0 h 22
#14
get off my lawn...
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 16,207
Mentions "j'aime": 8,188
Quoting: palhal
Signing JT was never a problem. Leafs for no apparent reason overpaid for Nylander, Matthews and Marner when you look at comparable RFA and their salary and term.


Nylander at the time, 500k too much. He has grown into that easily. Matthews, no such thing as an overpay. If you want to keep him... pay him the money. Marner1-1.5m overpay. No excuse there. But overpaying on a young rfa is still better than overpaying an older ufa.
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
12 sep à 0 h 24
#15
Démarrer sujet
Blade Gang
Rejoint: sep 2020
Messages: 24
Mentions "j'aime": 3
Quoting: palhal
Signing JT was never a problem. Leafs for no apparent reason overpaid for Nylander, Matthews and Marner when you look at comparable RFA and their salary and term.


I think people blame Dubas way too much for these contracts. Mitch Marner was arguably our most consistent offensive player that year and was probably THE reason Tavares had a career year. Marner was 22, and he definitely showed that he was worth as much as the other guys (Matthews/Tavares) making 10+ million. So, why would he ask for any less than what Tavares and Matthews were making? Especially at such a young age, he probably has the mentality that he's only going to get better... Also, Nylander and Matthews aren't overpaid. Nylander was on pace to score nearly 40 goals this year... Matthews can have as much money as he wishes... he's one of the most valuable players in the NHL.
12 sep à 0 h 24
#16
Habs 2010
Rejoint: mai 2020
Messages: 292
Mentions "j'aime": 116
Quoting: palhal
Signing JT was never a problem. Leafs for no apparent reason overpaid for Nylander, Matthews and Marner when you look at comparable RFA and their salary and term.


Exactly this. I dont get the "Perhaps Nylander, Matthews and Marner sign for less if Tavares doesn't set his contract as a standard." Tavares was the top UFA and took a discount to play in Toronto. That's the opposite of what happend with the three big RFA's.

Tradinf Kadri was not necessary either, it had nothing to do with Tavares but rather his suspension two playoffs in a row.

Maybe the GM should have looked into the ide of trading one of the big 3 RFA's who wanted too much money for a D instead of trading a guy on a team friendly contract.

Nobody knows, but all I know is signing Tavares was a great move, from a habs fan its honestly what took your team to the next level in my opinion.
palhal et OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
12 sep à 0 h 32
#17
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: jui 2015
Messages: 33,206
Mentions "j'aime": 8,784
Quoting: GladeBang16
I think people blame Dubas way too much for these contracts. Mitch Marner was arguably our most consistent offensive player that year and was probably THE reason Tavares had a career year. Marner was 22, and he definitely showed that he was worth as much as the other guys (Matthews/Tavares) making 10+ million. So, why would he ask for any less than what Tavares and Matthews were making? Especially at such a young age, he probably has the mentality that he's only going to get better... Also, Nylander and Matthews aren't overpaid. Nylander was on pace to score nearly 40 goals this year... Matthews can have as much money as he wishes... he's one of the most valuable players in the NHL.


I think you proved my point. Contracts and almost how they are laid in the CBA are based on "years of control" not a direct relationship to their value compared to other players in the league. Plus salaries are based league wide comparisons ....not on individual teams
There is no logic to say ?Matthews can have as much money as he wishes? The fact that he isn't the second best player in the league..far from it, would logically say he isn't worth that money especially as a RFA
12 sep à 0 h 47
#18
Démarrer sujet
Blade Gang
Rejoint: sep 2020
Messages: 24
Mentions "j'aime": 3
Quoting: Shanesaw9
Exactly this. I dont get the "Perhaps Nylander, Matthews and Marner sign for less if Tavares doesn't set his contract as a standard." Tavares was the top UFA and took a discount to play in Toronto. That's the opposite of what happend with the three big RFA's.

Tradinf Kadri was not necessary either, it had nothing to do with Tavares but rather his suspension two playoffs in a row.

Maybe the GM should have looked into the ide of trading one of the big 3 RFA's who wanted too much money for a D instead of trading a guy on a team friendly contract.

Nobody knows, but all I know is signing Tavares was a great move, from a habs fan its honestly what took your team to the next level in my opinion.


They haven't gotten to the "next level" since we signed him
12 sep à 0 h 50
#19
Démarrer sujet
Blade Gang
Rejoint: sep 2020
Messages: 24
Mentions "j'aime": 3
Quoting: palhal
I think you proved my point. Contracts and almost how they are laid in the CBA are based on "years of control" not a direct relationship to their value compared to other players in the league. Plus salaries are based league wide comparisons ....not on individual teams
There is no logic to say ?Matthews can have as much money as he wishes? The fact that he isn't the second best player in the league..far from it, would logically say he isn't worth that money especially as a RFA


Would you have let Matthews go if you were in Dubas' position?
12 sep à 0 h 55
#20
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: jui 2015
Messages: 33,206
Mentions "j'aime": 8,784
Quoting: GladeBang16
Would you have let Matthews go if you were in Dubas' position?


Tell me what position was Dubas in that Matthews would be "let go". He was RFA. Tell me was Matthews options?
12 sep à 0 h 58
#21
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 3,419
Mentions "j'aime": 1,517
Quoting: GladeBang16
Would you have let Matthews go if you were in Dubas' position?


Where would he go as RFA ? Back to Switzerland ?
12 sep à 0 h 59
#22
Démarrer sujet
Blade Gang
Rejoint: sep 2020
Messages: 24
Mentions "j'aime": 3
Quoting: palhal
Tell me what position was Dubas in that Matthews would be "let go". He was RFA. Tell me was Matthews options?


I mean not signing him and then trading him or letting him accept an offer sheet... it's extremely unrealistic for a gm to not sign their franchise player who's 21 years old just because they may have asked for a bit more money than you would expect. Then again, they would have paid him as much as he wanted. He's a top 15 player in the NHL and arguably top 10.
12 sep à 10 h 33
#23
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: jui 2015
Messages: 33,206
Mentions "j'aime": 8,784
Quoting: GladeBang16
I mean not signing him and then trading him or letting him accept an offer sheet... it's extremely unrealistic for a gm to not sign their franchise player who's 21 years old just because they may have asked for a bit more money than you would expect. Then again, they would have paid him as much as he wanted. He's a top 15 player in the NHL and arguably top 10.


Didn't you just proved my point by your statement? The Leafs should NOT have paid the second highest player in the league when as you say he is a only a top 10 or 15 player. When players/teams go to arbirtration the judge looks at league comparables. For some reason the Leafs signed three contracts Nylander, Matthews and Marner for total of 5m too much when looking at league comparables. Teams cannot be expect to be able to construct a championship team if they a number of players far more than their value.
 
Répondre
To create a post please Login or S'inscrire
Question:
Options:
Ajouter une option
Supprimer une option
Soumettre le sondage