Forums/Armchair-GM

What is fair value for taking on salary dumps w the flat cap

Créé par: ISeeBlueHeLooks
Date de création initiale: sep 7, 2020
Publié: 7 sep 2020 à 14 h 03
Équipe: 2020-21 Red Wings de Detroit
Explications
There seems to be quite a divide here when it comes to the value of taking on the bad contracts from contending teams. I'm interested in hearing from fans of the teams dumping contracts for cap space and other Wings fans as well. What they consider fair and realistic sweeteners for taking these contracts on. I'll list a few that come to mind and maybe some folks can fill in the blanks with what they consider fair compensation.
Transactions
DET
  1. Eriksson, Loui
VAN
    DET
    1. Baertschi, Sven
    VAN
      DET
      1. Steen, Alexander
      Détails additionnels:
      With the understanding that he will be bought out, making him a free agent.
      STL
        DET
        1. Turris, Kyle
        Détails additionnels:
        Understanding that Turris has value as a player, but has a burdensome contract given $$ and term. I believe buying him out would cost Nashville $2 million a year for the next eight years. Getting that contract off their books, even retaining $1 million - $2 million over half that time would seem to have quite a bit of allure.
        NSH
          DET
          1. Alzner, Karl
          MTL
            DET
            1. Russell, Kris
            Détails additionnels:
            With the understanding that he will be bought out, making him a free agent.
            EDM
              DET
              1. Ladd, Andrew
              NYI
                DET
                1. Boychuk, Johnny
                NYI
                  Rachats de contrats
                  • Stephen Weiss: 1 666 667 $
                  • Alexander Steen: 3 416 667 $
                  • Kris Russell: 3 000 000 $
                  • Andrew Ladd: 4 833 333 $
                  Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
                  • David Savard: 1 062 500 $ (25%)
                  • Richard Pánik: 1 375 000 $ (50%)
                  • Patrik Nemeth: 1 500 000 $ (50%)
                  Enfoui
                  • Frans Nielsen: 4 175 000 $ (5 250 000 $)
                  • Sven Baertschi: 2 291 666 $ (3 366 666 $)
                  • Johnny Boychuk: 4 925 000 $ (6 000 000 $)
                  ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
                  2020
                  DET
                  DET
                  EDM
                  WSH
                  DET
                  SJS
                  EDM
                  DET
                  DET
                  DET
                  2021
                  DET
                  DET
                  EDM
                  DET
                  VGK
                  DET
                  DET
                  DET
                  DET
                  2022
                  DET
                  DET
                  DET
                  DET
                  DET
                  DET
                  DET
                  TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
                  2281 500 000 $78 300 789 $0 $2 360 000 $3 199 211 $
                  Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
                  DET
                  Fabbri, Robby
                  2 950 000 $
                  AG, C
                  UFA - 2
                  DET
                  Larkin, Dylan
                  6 100 000 $
                  C, AG
                  UFA - 3
                  DET
                  Zadina, Filip
                  894 167 $
                  AG, AD
                  RFA - 2
                  DET
                  Bromé, Mathias
                  925 000 $
                  AG, AD
                  RFA - 1
                  NSH
                  Turris, Kyle
                  6 000 000 $
                  C
                  UFA - 4
                  VAN
                  Eriksson, Loui
                  6 000 000 $
                  AG, AD
                  NTC
                  UFA - 2
                  DET
                  Svechnikov, Evgeny
                  874 125 $
                  AG
                  RFA - 1
                  NSH
                  Turris, Kyle
                  1 650 000 $
                  C
                  UFA - 2
                  DET
                  Helm, Darren
                  3 850 000 $
                  C, AG, AD
                  UFA - 1
                  DET
                  Smith, Givani
                  714 166 $
                  AG
                  RFA - 1
                  DET
                  Rasmussen, Michael
                  894 166 $
                  AG, C, AD
                  RFA - 1
                  DET
                  Glendening, Luke
                  1 800 000 $
                  C, AD, AG
                  UFA - 1
                  DET
                  Filppula, Valtteri
                  3 000 000 $
                  C, AG
                  NTC
                  UFA - 1
                  Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
                  DET
                  DeKeyser, Danny
                  5 000 000 $
                  DG
                  NTC
                  UFA - 2
                  DET
                  Hronek, Filip
                  714 166 $
                  DD
                  RFA - 1
                  DET
                  Bernier, Jonathan
                  3 000 000 $
                  G
                  UFA - 1
                  DET
                  Nemeth, Patrik
                  1 500 000 $
                  DG
                  UFA - 1
                  DET
                  Seider, Moritz
                  894 167 $
                  DD
                  RFA - 4
                  DET
                  Pickard, Calvin
                  750 000 $
                  G
                  UFA - 1
                  DET
                  Cholowski, Dennis
                  894 166 $
                  DG
                  RFA - 1
                  DET
                  Lindström, Gustav
                  775 833 $
                  DD
                  RFA - 1
                  Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
                  DET
                  Biega, Alex
                  875 000 $
                  DD
                  UFA - 1
                  DET
                  Zetterberg, Henrik
                  6 083 333 $
                  C
                  UFA - 1

                  Code d'intégration

                  • Pour afficher cette équipe sur un autre site Web ou blog, ajoutez ce iFrame à la page appropriée
                  • Personnalisez les dimensions dans le code IFrame ci-dessous pour adapter votre site de manière appropriée. Minimum recommandé: 400px.

                  Texte intégré

                  Cliquer pour surligner
                  7 sep 2020 à 14 h 05
                  #1
                  Rejoint: mai 2019
                  Messages: 9,821
                  Mentions "j'aime": 3,732
                  Modifié 7 sep 2020 à 14 h 13
                  Higher premium than last year..

                  Cap is flat this year, but will also likely be flat for 2021-22 as well. So if Marleau, Backes took a 1st to move...I think we should anticipate some more of those.

                  Alzner and Russell won’t take that much because there is some flexibility there.
                  Steen probably as a say in where he goes, if he goes...so may put STL in tough spot.
                  Eriksson probably costs 1st and more...if team eats whole thing. Ladd will probably cost prospect.
                  Turris, could see wide range.
                  Alaskan_RedWing a aimé ceci.
                  7 sep 2020 à 14 h 08
                  #2
                  Rejoint: jun 2020
                  Messages: 5,679
                  Mentions "j'aime": 2,443
                  Won’t get anything from oilers for Russell.
                  7 sep 2020 à 14 h 08
                  #3
                  Oilers GM
                  Rejoint: avr 2020
                  Messages: 1,560
                  Mentions "j'aime": 566
                  Prolly a 3rd for Russell

                  He's one of those guys who are useful, but overpaid by about 3M. Has 1 year left and is only owed 1.5M real dollars, so probably a 3rd to get rid of his contract
                  RedWing9119 a aimé ceci.
                  7 sep 2020 à 14 h 15
                  #4
                  LOCKEMUP
                  Rejoint: déc 2019
                  Messages: 557
                  Mentions "j'aime": 228
                  baertchi probably doesnt cost much, one year on a meh cap hit isint super crazy. Theyd have to pony up some actual value however to dump guys like beagle and roussell though
                  7 sep 2020 à 14 h 16
                  #5
                  Rejoint: jun 2020
                  Messages: 5,679
                  Mentions "j'aime": 2,443
                  Did you even look into what a buyout on russell would look like? He would definitely be better to keep.
                  7 sep 2020 à 14 h 21
                  #6
                  Rejoint: jan 2018
                  Messages: 516
                  Mentions "j'aime": 128
                  Eriksson is a tough one. If his contract was 3mil he'd never miss a game, very skilled on the PK. He's useful, but not justifiable at 6mil

                  Canucks already gave up a 1st so losing another would be devastating for the future, even if it does get rid of Loui. imo, depending on the receiving team, I'd say Demko could get rid of his contract, but I've also seen other ACGM's that take his full contract for Virtanen and a 2nd.
                  7 sep 2020 à 15 h 06
                  #7
                  Rejoint: mai 2020
                  Messages: 3,752
                  Mentions "j'aime": 2,734
                  I think you need to access each trade differently. What I mean is if you get a useful player (Bozak, Stepan, Turris) you have to determine their useful worth then multiply that by the amount of years (and account for regression if 30+ and multiple years) and difference between that and their contract is the dead weight. Just because a team will use the player doesn’t mean they want to pay the full cap hit similarly how people view plays with value contracts (MacKinnon, Draisaitl, Couts). The further out the futures are or the more restrictions (lottery protected) then the less valued
                  Alaskan_RedWing a aimé ceci.
                  7 sep 2020 à 15 h 13
                  #8
                  Rejoint: jun 2020
                  Messages: 1,481
                  Mentions "j'aime": 1,223
                  Eriksson - Before Demko mania started, a lot of Red Wings and Canucks fans agreed that a Eriksson + Demko + 2nd could work however Demko will now be insanely overvalued, at least on Cap Friendly. I'd be willing to drop the 2nd to a 3rd/4th now, but I don't think Canucks fans will be on board with this trade anymore. If Demko isn't involved, I'd want a 1st coming back to Detroit with maybe a mid-round pick or prospect with equivalent value involved.

                  Baertschi - Probably a mid-round pick to dump.

                  Steen - The Blues won't move him unless they have to but I think fair value would be a 1st coming to Detroit with a 3rd going back. I've seen some Blues fans say they would be okay with this but only as a last resort to clear cap for Pietrangelo.

                  Turris - Not too sure about him. I've seen a lot of trades with Nashville using their 1st (11OA) to dump Turris but Predators fans have made it clear that they don't like that trade.

                  Alzner - I think Montreal will keep him since they're not that desperate for cap but I'd try and get a late 1st or two 2nds (preferably at least one of them from a bad team).

                  Russell - I'd want a late 2nd or 3rd to take him on but a better team that values him more as a player could take him for less and I don't think the Oilers would be willing to pay that price.

                  Ladd - I don't even know what I'd want for him. He's an interesting one since he could go on LTIR soon but you can't assume he will. The fact that he has 3 years left makes me want to stay away from him (I'd much prefer taking on guys with 1 or 2 years left). I wouldn't take him for less than two 1st's, or one 1st + a prospect with equivalent value to a 1st. I think the Islanders would be better off waiting a year to trade him.

                  Boychuk - I'd ask for a 1st + mid-round pick or prospect with equivalent value.
                  Alaskan_RedWing a aimé ceci.
                  7 sep 2020 à 15 h 19
                  #9
                  Rejoint: mai 2015
                  Messages: 534
                  Mentions "j'aime": 150
                  I was reading the beat writer on the athletics for the sens yesterdays and apparently to drop Boychuk & Ladd to easily resign all their RFAs it would cost them Dobson and more, which I doubt NYI would do.

                  below the final paragraph of the article, which leads to believe the Sens (Melnyk), is not really open to take many cap dumps on his team
                  "If any teams are going to convince the Senators to take any of their big contracts that trade package will have to be significant and may be too rich for any organisations to consider."
                  7 sep 2020 à 15 h 21
                  #10
                  Boris Bagel
                  Rejoint: oct 2016
                  Messages: 1,955
                  Mentions "j'aime": 352
                  Habs are not trading Alzner, it's either back to AHL or a buyout
                  7 sep 2020 à 15 h 21
                  #11
                  Red Wings
                  Rejoint: sep 2020
                  Messages: 29
                  Mentions "j'aime": 15
                  Ladd – I don't know what DET would get back, but that Ladd contract is a disaster. At least Loui is somewhat usable, Ladd is a minor league player with Abdelkader. I don't think there is a single Islander prospect I would take for that. Maybe a 1st AND 2nd round pick in 2022 because of how deep that draft will be, but that is the floor.

                  Boychuck – Serviceable defenseman and good mentor to Seider, I think there might be 1st round pick for him just because of the length left. Depends how desperate Isles are to win-now.

                  Russell – Unlikely but maybe a 1st or 2nd round pick if we sent Glendening as well, who Holland loves and is a great 4th line player for cheap. Doubt EDM would accept but they should. Luke is great

                  Ericsson – DiPietro/Demko or a 1st round pick is the minimum. They really need to get rid of that contract because they have to sign Petterson and Hughes in the next 2 years with a flat cap.

                  Sven – 2nd or 3rd Round pick, unlikely they will send a decent prospect for him.

                  Steen – 2nd pick or a good prospect, he only has 1 year left and STL could just wait it out. Seems to be a good lockerroom guy.
                  7 sep 2020 à 15 h 22
                  #12
                  Red Wings
                  Rejoint: sep 2020
                  Messages: 29
                  Mentions "j'aime": 15
                  Quoting: alpine4life
                  I was reading the beat writer on the athletics for the sens yesterdays and apparently to drop Boychuk & Ladd to easily resign all their RFAs it would cost them Dobson and more, which I doubt NYI would do.

                  below the final paragraph of the article, which leads to believe the Sens (Melnyk), is not really open to take many cap dumps on his team
                  "If any teams are going to convince the Senators to take any of their big contracts that trade package will have to be significant and may be too rich for any organisations to consider."


                  Yeah one advantage DET has over OTT (both of which could really weaponize their cap space) is that Illitch's love to spend money on the Wings and trust Stevie. OTT could really do some damage if Melnyk wasn't cheap
                  7 sep 2020 à 16 h 35
                  #13
                  mokumboi
                  Rejoint: avr 2019
                  Messages: 7,245
                  Mentions "j'aime": 2,178
                  The Blues aren't paying anyone to buy Steen out, and I can only assume he's not waiving for Detroit. But taking him on is worth a decent 2nd rounder.
                  7 sep 2020 à 18 h 19
                  #14
                  Démarrer sujet
                  Blue
                  Rejoint: fév 2019
                  Messages: 37
                  Mentions "j'aime": 7
                  Quoting: Alaskan_RedWing
                  Ladd – I don't know what DET would get back, but that Ladd contract is a disaster. At least Loui is somewhat usable, Ladd is a minor league player with Abdelkader. I don't think there is a single Islander prospect I would take for that. Maybe a 1st AND 2nd round pick in 2022 because of how deep that draft will be, but that is the floor.

                  Boychuck – Serviceable defenseman and good mentor to Seider, I think there might be 1st round pick for him just because of the length left. Depends how desperate Isles are to win-now.

                  Russell – Unlikely but maybe a 1st or 2nd round pick if we sent Glendening as well, who Holland loves and is a great 4th line player for cheap. Doubt EDM would accept but they should. Luke is great

                  Ericsson – DiPietro/Demko or a 1st round pick is the minimum. They really need to get rid of that contract because they have to sign Petterson and Hughes in the next 2 years with a flat cap.

                  Sven – 2nd or 3rd Round pick, unlikely they will send a decent prospect for him.

                  Steen – 2nd pick or a good prospect, he only has 1 year left and STL could just wait it out. Seems to be a good lockerroom guy.


                  Quoting: mokumboi
                  The Blues aren't paying anyone to buy Steen out, and I can only assume he's not waiving for Detroit. But taking him on is worth a decent 2nd rounder.



                  Re: Steen...I'm curious if the Blues are ready to walk away from Pietrangelo. Looks like they have a bit under $6.5 million in cap space, and I'd assume they would want to re-sign Pietrangelo and give Dunn a decent sized bridge deal. They also need a back up goalie. What's the word on how they'll approach their situation?
                  7 sep 2020 à 18 h 40
                  #15
                  mokumboi
                  Rejoint: avr 2019
                  Messages: 7,245
                  Mentions "j'aime": 2,178
                  Quoting: ISeeBlueHeLooks
                  Re: Steen...I'm curious if the Blues are ready to walk away from Pietrangelo. Looks like they have a bit under $6.5 million in cap space, and I'd assume they would want to re-sign Pietrangelo and give Dunn a decent sized bridge deal. They also need a back up goalie. What's the word on how they'll approach their situation?



                  First, they don't need a back-up goalie. Husso will be promoted. Secondly, they have no intention of walking away from Petro, and with the Allen trade aren't that far off affording raises for Petro and Dunn. I'd guess that Bozak will be the next guy dealt, but it might have to wait a spell as he could have more value to a contending team.
                  7 sep 2020 à 18 h 49
                  #16
                  Démarrer sujet
                  Blue
                  Rejoint: fév 2019
                  Messages: 37
                  Mentions "j'aime": 7
                  Quoting: mokumboi
                  First, they don't need a back-up goalie. Husso will be promoted. Secondly, they have no intention of walking away from Petro, and with the Allen trade aren't that far off affording raises for Petro and Dunn. I'd guess that Bozak will be the next guy dealt, but it might have to wait a spell as he could have more value to a contending team.


                  I just meant that the $6.5 of cap space didn't include a back up goalie, that's all. Husso added definitely helps so they don't have to sign a vet. That takes them under $6 million in cap space...what do you think the Petro and Dunn contracts will be combined? $11-12 million? I was just curious their plan to clear the $5-7 million to get that done.
                  7 sep 2020 à 19 h 07
                  #17
                  mokumboi
                  Rejoint: avr 2019
                  Messages: 7,245
                  Mentions "j'aime": 2,178
                  Quoting: ISeeBlueHeLooks
                  I just meant that the $6.5 of cap space didn't include a back up goalie, that's all. Husso added definitely helps so they don't have to sign a vet. That takes them under $6 million in cap space...what do you think the Petro and Dunn contracts will be combined? $11-12 million? I was just curious their plan to clear the $5-7 million to get that done.



                  I would guess that Petro's deal will come in a little under Josi's, maybe something like 8.75M. The whole COVID situation obviously did not help his bargaining position.

                  Dunn is trickier. Total guesswork at this time. He does not have arbitration rights, so he's also not sitting in the best bargaining chair. If Steen somehow goes (trade, retirement, etc.), Dunn could get a fatter, longer deal. Maybe... 4x4 or thereabouts. If Steen doesn't go, he'll probably have to settle for a shirt bridge, maybe like 2x2.5. Like I said, for now a lot of guessing when it comes to Dunn.
                  ISeeBlueHeLooks a aimé ceci.
                   
                  Répondre
                  To create a post please Login or S'inscrire
                  Question:
                  Options:
                  Ajouter une option
                  Supprimer une option
                  Soumettre le sondage