Forums/Armchair-GM

Fleury to Ottawa

Créé par: OldNYIfan
Date de création initiale: aoû 30, 2020
Publié: 1 sep à 14 h 30
Équipe: 2020-21 Sénateurs d'Ottawa
Explications
It sounds like Marc-Andre Fleury may ask for a trade this off-season, and with Robin Lehner performing so well in the playoffs, Las Vegas may be quite happy to accommodate him. But it seems to me that there are only a limited number of teams that can both absorb his cap hit and need a #1 goalie: Detroit, Ottawa, Minnesota, and maybe Carolina, Washington, Calgary and Edmonton. This is my idea of what it would take to give Ottawa sufficient incentive to provide the Golden Knights with enough cap space to sign Lehner long-term.

Ottawa gets a first-round pick in next year's draft and a first-line goalie who can help the Senators build a culture of winning while their boatload of young prospects develops. Las Vegas gets the needed cap room and Ottawa's third-best goalie prospects, as well as a late second-round pick in this year's draft.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
LISTE DE RÉSERVEANSCAP HIT
Bernard-Docker, Jacob3925 000 $
Søgaard, Mads3809 167 $
RFAANSCAP HIT
Tierney, Chris34 500 000 $
Brown, Connor54 000 000 $
Duclair, Anthony33 333 333 $
Paul, Nicholas11 250 000 $
Hawryluk, Jayce2900 000 $
Jaros, Christian2850 000 $
Chlapik, Filip2800 000 $
Balcers, Rūdolfs2800 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
Borowiecki, Mark22 000 000 $
Transactions
OTT
  1. Fleury, Marc-André
  2. 2021 1e round pick (VGK)
VGK
  1. Gustavsson, Filip
  2. 2020 2e round pick (DAL)
  3. 2020 4e round pick (OTT)
Rachats de contrats
  • Dion Phaneuf: 1 354 167 $
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2020
SJS
OTT
NYI
OTT
CBJ
NYI
OTT
WPG
TBL
SJS
STL
2021
OTT
VGK
OTT
SJS
CBJ
OTT
COL
EDM
OTT
OTT
2022
OTT
OTT
OTT
OTT
OTT
OTT
OTT
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2481 500 000 $65 973 332 $0 $3 812 500 $15 526 668 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
OTT
Tkachuk, Brady
925 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 1
OTT
Tierney, Chris
4 500 000 $
C
RFA
OTT
White, Colin
4 750 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 5
OTT
Brown, Connor
4 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 3
OTT
Anisimov, Artem
4 550 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
OTT
Batherson, Drake
736 666 $
C, AD
RFA - 1
OTT
Duclair, Anthony
3 333 333 $
AG, AD
UFA
OTT
Paul, Nicholas
1 250 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 2
OTT
Ryan, Bobby
7 250 000 $
AD, AG
NMC NTC
UFA - 2
OTT
Hawryluk, Jayce
900 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 1
OTT
Chlapik, Filip
800 000 $
C
RFA
OTT
Ryan, Bobby
1 000 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
OTT
Formenton, Alex
747 500 $
AG
RFA - 2
OTT
Brown, Logan
863 333 $
C
RFA - 1
OTT
Balcers, Rūdolfs
800 000 $
AD, AG
RFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
OTT
Chabot, Thomas
8 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 8
OTT
Zaitsev, Nikita
4 500 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 4
VGK
Fleury, Marc-André
7 000 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 2
OTT
Borowiecki, Mark
2 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
OTT
Jaros, Christian
850 000 $
DD
RFA
OTT
Nilsson, Anders
2 600 000 $
G
UFA - 1
OTT
Reilly, Mike
1 500 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
OTT
Brännström, Erik
863 333 $
DD
RFA - 2
OTT
Wolanin, Christian
900 000 $
DG
RFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
OTT
Gáborík, Marián
4 875 000 $
AD
UFA - 1

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1 sep à 14 h 37
#1
Rejoint: aoû 2020
Messages: 2,352
Mentions "j'aime": 1,109
Ottawa doesn’t need a goalie, we’d rather let ours develop. We’re especially not trading for a 36yo at the cost of probably our 2nd best goalie prospect
1 sep à 14 h 46
#2
Démarrer sujet
First NY Then LA
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Quoting: Alfie11
Ottawa doesn’t need a goalie, we’d rather let ours develop. We’re especially not trading for a 36yo at the cost of probably our 2nd best goalie prospect


You don't need a goalie?!? You're delusional. Anderson is 39 and played only half the past season. Your other options are rookies Hogberg and Gustavsson and the unsigned Sogaard. You "let" goalies "develop" in the AHL, not the NHL. You'd be lucky to win 20 games with those three in goal.
1 sep à 14 h 56
#3
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1,013
Mentions "j'aime": 240
I don't see why Vegas would have to pay to move Fleury. They can retain on his salary.
1 sep à 14 h 58
#4
Rejoint: jui 2019
Messages: 3,923
Mentions "j'aime": 1,329
Quoting: Alfie11
Ottawa doesn’t need a goalie, we’d rather let ours develop. We’re especially not trading for a 36yo at the cost of probably our 2nd best goalie prospect


He's more than a goalie he's a leader, he's a veteran player that could wear a background C and help player develop alot quicker.
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
1 sep à 14 h 59
#5
Démarrer sujet
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Quoting: MGK
I don't see why Vegas would have to pay to move Fleury. They can retain on his salary.


No, they can't. That's the whole point of moving him.
1 sep à 15 h 01
#6
Rejoint: aoû 2020
Messages: 2,352
Mentions "j'aime": 1,109
Quoting: OldNYIfan
You don't need a goalie?!? You're delusional. Anderson is 39 and played only half the past season. Your other options are rookies Hogberg and Gustavsson and the unsigned Sogaard. You "let" goalies "develop" in the AHL, not the NHL. You'd be lucky to win 20 games with those three in goal.

Clearly you're not aware of our goalie situation. Anderson is probably not coming back. Sens fans are perfectly comfortable going into the season with the tandem of Hogberg+Nilsson (Hogberg showed promise this season and is ready for bigger minutes, Nilsson is a solid backup/1B who can split starts with Hogberg). This lets Daccord and Gustavsson split starts in the AHL. Ideal scenario is Daccord (or maybe Gustavsson but it's projected as Daccord rn) develop to the point where they can challenge for NHL backup minutes by mid-season, which makes Nilsson expendable at the deadline. Mandolese will likely start in the ECHL, and hopefully pull a Daccord and jump to the AHL mid-season if Hogberg and one of Daccord/Gustavsson look good and get the promotion. Sogaard will stay in the WHL. Also, we're not trying to be competitive next season lol, we're likely to ice mostly the same lineup, but sprinkled with some more rookies, so it'll be more beneficial to let them see some NHL time if they show they have nothing more to prove in the AHL.
1 sep à 15 h 04
#7
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1,013
Mentions "j'aime": 240
Quoting: OldNYIfan
No, they can't. That's the whole point of moving him.


Yes. They CAN.

The point of moving him is he wants a chance to be a starter somewhere, and to free up 3-4m for Lehner.
1 sep à 15 h 08
#8
Démarrer sujet
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Quoting: Alfie11
Clearly you're not aware of our goalie situation. Anderson is probably not coming back. Sens fans are perfectly comfortable going into the season with the tandem of Hogberg+Nilsson (Hogberg showed promise this season and is ready for bigger minutes, Nilsson is a solid backup/1B who can split starts with Hogberg). This lets Daccord and Gustavsson split starts in the AHL. Ideal scenario is Daccord (or maybe Gustavsson but it's projected as Daccord rn) develop to the point where they can challenge for NHL backup minutes by mid-season, which makes Nilsson expendable at the deadline. Mandolese will likely start in the ECHL, and hopefully pull a Daccord and jump to the AHL mid-season if Hogberg and one of Daccord/Gustavsson look good and get the promotion. Sogaard will stay in the WHL. Also, we're not trying to be competitive next season lol, we're likely to ice mostly the same lineup, but sprinkled with some more rookies, so it'll be more beneficial to let them see some NHL time if they show they have nothing more to prove in the AHL.


I'm entirely aware of your goalie situation, which is why I think Fleury is a good option for you. Playing Hogberg and Nilsson (who's never played more than 27 games in a season) as your tandem is giving up on the season before it starts.[/quote]
1 sep à 15 h 09
#9
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Quoting: MGK
Yes. They CAN.

The point of moving him is he wants a chance to be a starter somewhere, and to free up 3-4m for Lehner.


No. See my contemporaneous post of this trade from the Las Vegas side. And Las Vegas has to free up more than $4 million for Lehner.
1 sep à 15 h 13
#10
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1,013
Mentions "j'aime": 240
Quoting: OldNYIfan
No. See my contemporaneous post of this trade from the Las Vegas side. And Las Vegas has to free up more than $4 million for Lehner.


I did. You wasted too much cap on 13th & 14th forwards. There's no reason to do so if you're going to have to trade down from your 1st to clear cap...
1 sep à 15 h 23
#11
Rejoint: aoû 2020
Messages: 2,352
Mentions "j'aime": 1,109
Quoting: OldNYIfan
I'm entirely aware of your goalie situation, which is why I think Fleury is a good option for you. Playing Hogberg and Nilsson (who's never played more than 27 games in a season) as your tandem is giving up on the season before it starts.
[/quote]
We haven't made any improvements apart from development of rookies/prospects from the team that just finished 2nd last. We're not going to be good next year so there's really no point pretending to be. Fleury is likely going to a contender that needs a solid starter. And at some point you have to give the young guys a chance to get some ice time and prove they're good enough, so it really makes sense to just see what we have in Hogberg, Nilsson, and Daccord. It also doesn't make sense to give up a goalie who's had 4 years of development (goalies can take up to 6 or 7 if they're not Carter Hart) for a 36yo, and if we don't give him up then a guy who should be in the NHL will be in the AHL, and a guy who should be in the AHL will be in the ECHL, which only hurts their development.
1 sep à 15 h 25
#12
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Quoting: MGK
I did. You wasted too much cap on 13th & 14th forwards. There's no reason to do so if you're going to have to trade down from your 1st to clear cap...


What are you talking about? Carrier's cap hit is already set, so I assume you're referring to Cousins and Nosek. There's $750,000 extra there at most; that doesn't get Las Vegas far when the object is to get the 2020 second, the goalie prospect and Fleury a new home.

You seem to think that the purpose of trading Fleury is to put a smile on his face. It's not. It's to sign Robin Lehner. Retaining money on Fleury (at most $1 million) doesn't get us anything in return this season if we maintain the first next year, which will also probably be in the 28-31 range. Let me put it another way: what do you think the return is going to be when our side is only Fleury with $1 million retained?
1 sep à 15 h 26
#13
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1,013
Mentions "j'aime": 240
Quoting: OldNYIfan
What are you talking about? Carrier's cap hit is already set, so I assume you're referring to Cousins and Nosek. There's $750,000 extra there at most; that doesn't get Las Vegas far when the object is to get the 2020 second, the goalie prospect and Fleury a new home.

You seem to think that the purpose of trading Fleury is to put a smile on his face. It's not. It's to sign Robin Lehner. Retaining money on Fleury (at most $1 million) doesn't get us anything in return this season if we maintain the first next year, which will also probably be in the 28-31 range. Let me put it another way: what do you think the return is going to be when our side is only Fleury with $1 million retained?


They can retain more than 1m.

Even if they go with 22 players to start, Glass & Hague don't need to be on the opening night roster, just like last year when players were sent back and forth to the AHL to shave off cap.

Contenders don't dole out that much money to players like Cousins, Stephenson & Nosek when there are plenty of good options for cap flexibility. Look at Tampa filling out their lineup with veterans like Maroon and Schenn at near league minimum.
1 sep à 15 h 31
#14
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1,013
Mentions "j'aime": 240
I think they can even find a way to fit in Dillon & move out McNabb as well.
1 sep à 15 h 32
#15
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Quoting: Alfie11

We haven't made any improvements apart from development of rookies/prospects from the team that just finished 2nd last. We're not going to be good next year so there's really no point pretending to be. Fleury is likely going to a contender that needs a solid starter. And at some point you have to give the young guys a chance to get some ice time and prove they're good enough, so it really makes sense to just see what we have in Hogberg, Nilsson, and Daccord. It also doesn't make sense to give up a goalie who's had 4 years of development (goalies can take up to 6 or 7 if they're not Carter Hart) for a 36yo, and if we don't give him up then a guy who should be in the NHL will be in the AHL, and a guy who should be in the AHL will be in the ECHL, which only hurts their development.[/quote]

You know, I've seen variations on this theory many times: "We have a bad team, so let's keep being bad next year, and maybe someday we'll get better." Losing begets more losing. You build a winning team by winning more games every season. Fleury helps you do that. Trying out Hogberg and Nilsson doesn't.

I see you've backtracked from your original position that "we don't need a goalie" to "we're going to throw Hogberg and maybe Gustavsson into the fire; let's see what we have." Well, what you have is insufficient goaltending.
1 sep à 15 h 39
#16
Démarrer sujet
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Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 14,086
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Quoting: MGK
I think they can even find a way to fit in Dillon & move out McNabb as well.


Yeah, at the cost of trading Marchesseault. I saw your post. In my opinion, moving out Marchesseault and McNabb from a winning cohesive roster in order to accommodate Dillon because you want to retain on Fleury instead of use the 2021 first is idiotic. And I'm amused to see that I gave Stephenson, Cousins and Nosek the very same cap hits you did in your most recent construction and are now criticising.

You're just wrong.
1 sep à 15 h 57
#17
Rejoint: aoû 2020
Messages: 2,352
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
We haven't made any improvements apart from development of rookies/prospects from the team that just finished 2nd last. We're not going to be good next year so there's really no point pretending to be. Fleury is likely going to a contender that needs a solid starter. And at some point you have to give the young guys a chance to get some ice time and prove they're good enough, so it really makes sense to just see what we have in Hogberg, Nilsson, and Daccord. It also doesn't make sense to give up a goalie who's had 4 years of development (goalies can take up to 6 or 7 if they're not Carter Hart) for a 36yo, and if we don't give him up then a guy who should be in the NHL will be in the AHL, and a guy who should be in the AHL will be in the ECHL, which only hurts their development.

You know, I've seen variations on this theory many times: "We have a bad team, so let's keep being bad next year, and maybe someday we'll get better." Losing begets more losing. You build a winning team by winning more games every season. Fleury helps you do that. Trying out Hogberg and Nilsson doesn't.

I see you've backtracked from your original position that "we don't need a goalie" to "we're going to throw Hogberg and maybe Gustavsson into the fire; let's see what we have." Well, what you have is insufficient goaltending.

I haven’t backtracked at all? I want to see what we have and I think it’ll be fine to start with. Given their play last season, a little faith in Hogberg and Nilsson is warranted, they played pretty well considering our team had no defense. Nilsson had some injury troubles but he’s a capable platoon goalie. Hogberg is probably ready to take that next step to platoon goalie as well based on his play. Knocking Hogberg back down to the AHL achieves nothing and stunts his development (he was Belleville’s MVP in 2018-19, 2 years out from that it’s not unreasonable to expect him to be a full time NHL goalie of some sort). As much as I love Anderson, he was statistically our worst goalie, so it’s not really a stretch to roll with the better two. If Gustavsson or Daccord play outstanding in the minors then they can be called up and given a shot. Trading Gustavsson hurts our long term goalie depth, especially considering his high-end potential. Why would we sacrifice one of our 2 best goalie prospects (and the one with 3 extra years of development), and undeservedly relegate Hogberg, just to get a couple extra wins next year? There’s no reason for Ottawa to do this. If we want veteran leadership we’ll sign a bottom 6 forward or a depth defenseman.
1 sep à 16 h 05
#18
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 1,013
Mentions "j'aime": 240
Quoting: OldNYIfan
Yeah, at the cost of trading Marchesseault. I saw your post. In my opinion, moving out Marchesseault and McNabb from a winning cohesive roster in order to accommodate Dillon because you want to retain on Fleury instead of use the 2021 first is idiotic. And I'm amused to see that I gave Stephenson, Cousins and Nosek the very same cap hits you did in your most recent construction and are now criticising.

You're just wrong.


? I didn't have Nosek signed on that roster. lol.

That GM team had lots of freed up roster space so 3m went to Cousins & Stephenson. When teams are up against their cap they can't give role players what they want. When they have space, they can sign them to what they're worth long term.
1 sep à 19 h 21
#19
Démarrer sujet
First NY Then LA
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 14,086
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What I love about having posted this construction is that the Ottawa fan thinks that the Senators are giving up too much and the Las Vegas fan thinks that the Golden Knights are giving up too much.
 
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