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Would An All-Grit Team Beat An All-Star Team?

Who Would Win?
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27 août 2020 à 18 h 48
#1
Banni
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Must win with grit.
27 août 2020 à 18 h 50
#2
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Banni
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Ever since the Penguins won back to back cups, I’ve noticed that the league has been emphasizing the philosophy of having grit and heaviness. This is evident as all the recent cup champions and teams that make it far in the playoffs have players who are big, physical and relentless on the forecheck. We’ve seen teams that were more or less known for their finesse start to get bigger and tougher, and as a result, they’ve started to significantly improve in the playoffs. Tampa is an example of it.

Due to this, I’ve decided to ask the hypothetical question of whether a team of grit can beat a team of skilled players in a best of 7 series?

I made two teams, one of them consisting of the best players who fit the “grit” intangible and another consisting of the top players in the NHL over the past few seasons.

Team Grit:

M.Tkachuk - B.Tkachuk - Stone
Benn - PLD - Wheeler
Pacioretty- J.Miller - Mantha
Lee - N. Foligno - Wilson
M. Foligno, B. Tanev

Chara - Weber
Muzzin - Manson
Oleksiak - Gudas,
Dillon

Rask
Lehner

Team All-Stars:

Draisaitl - McDavid - Kane
Malkin - Crosby - MacKinnon
Matthews - Tavares - Kucherov
Ovechkin - Stamkos - Eichel
Panarin, Pettersson

Josi - Hamilton
Hedman - Pietrangelo
Theodore - Karlsson
Spurgeon

Helleybucyk
Hart

Personally, I don’t know who would be more likely to win. As a smaller player who relied on finesse, I can admit that I would easily become frustrated and get thrown off my game when I faced bigger, more physical and heavier forechecking players. However, on the team I created, the skill level of the players are simply off the charts and even if a few guys stop producing, there’s still so many more weapons.

What’d you guys think?



Who'd you guys think would win between these 2 teams?
27 août 2020 à 18 h 51
#3
Jetsfan
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Who'd you guys think would win between these 2 teams?


Ovi has enough grit to be on team 1
27 août 2020 à 18 h 51
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Rangers 2023
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Who'd you guys think would win between these 2 teams?


Not the team dumb enough to scratch panarin
27 août 2020 à 18 h 53
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Interesting, I think it depends on the coach, we basically saw a team based entirely around grit (Columbus) beat a team based entirely around skill (Toronto) but its pretty hard to vote against that skill team
27 août 2020 à 18 h 53
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Oilers GM
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easily skill
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27 août 2020 à 18 h 54
#7
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Team Skill would obliterate team grit.

Its not even remotely close

And the League is moving away from grit. Not towards it
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27 août 2020 à 18 h 56
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I think a grit team did beat a skill team -- CBJ v TOR.

But I don't think this grit team would beat the all-star team that you made. I think the grit defense is ultimately too slow and the all-star team would take advantage of that.
27 août 2020 à 19 h 4
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In this specific example, team all star lights up team grit
27 août 2020 à 19 h 13
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Hard work beats skill when skill doesn’t work.... anyone who coaches any sport can tell you that. If all you look at is stats you’ll never see that.
27 août 2020 à 19 h 14
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depends if its playoff rules or if its normal rules lol
27 août 2020 à 19 h 16
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Banni
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Quoting: Jetman
Ovi has enough grit to be on team 1


Yeah but he doesn’t play good defensively so he didn’t make it. Honestly, I think his skill level is way too high to be there anyway.
27 août 2020 à 19 h 24
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Banni
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Modifié 27 août 2020 à 19 h 37
Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Interesting, I think it depends on the coach, we basically saw a team based entirely around grit (Columbus) beat a team based entirely around skill (Toronto) but its pretty hard to vote against that skill team


Quoting: villenash
I think a grit team did beat a skill team -- CBJ v TOR.

But I don't think this grit team would beat the all-star team that you made. I think the grit defense is ultimately too slow and the all-star team would take advantage of that.


Columbus did beat Toronto but I don’t think it was because of their grit. They didn’t exactly outwork or outplay Toronto. In fact, it was quite the opposite. Toronto got majority of offensive zone time, shots, scoring chances and high danger chances. The difference was goaltending (Korpisalo stopped pretty much everything he faced) & the Leafs had poor defensive breakdowns (allowed Columbus to score off the rush many times). Plus they couldn’t finish their chances. I still think they need to add some heaviness if they want to make a deeper run against teams like Boston or Tampa, but in this series, I don’t think it was the reason they lost against CBJ.
27 août 2020 à 19 h 25
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Banni
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Quoting: SlickWilly
depends if its playoff rules or if its normal rules lol


lol yes! During the playoffs the refs put away their whistles & it’s a full gladiator show. That’s probably the biggest reason why grit are always winning.
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27 août 2020 à 19 h 34
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I think Skill would absolutely blow Grit out of the water consistently. Like if they played a bo7, Skill would sweep 2 out of 3 series, and win the 3rd in 5 because Lehner or Rask played the game of their lives and everyone was clicking. Not only does Skill have 4 guys that were probably top 5 in the Norris race this year, but they have 14 forwards you just don't stop offensively. Like a good game against any one of Skill's lines would be only allowing them to score twice lol, that team should NEVER score less than 6 goals per game period. Skill's forwards are too fast, Grit's defense is too slow, and when Grit tries to counterattack they run into ridiculously good 2-way defenders. I think grit has its place in that playing a physical, hard forechecking style can be effective if you have high skill to back it up (like the way Boston or St. Louis play), but a pure grit team won't win more than a round (e.g. Columbus). An interesting concept for sure, but right now the ideal team is a mixture of both, and honestly bar a few anomalies where there's an overwhelming amount of skill, like this team, I think that'll probably remain true. The refs put the whistles away in the playoffs, which favours physical, "dirty" players far more than speedy skilled players, so while skill is obviously necessary in today's game, you've gotta have some big forecheckers to rough the other side up a bit too. The salary cap favours this build as well, as skill is more rare so it costs a premium, then you fill out the roster with cheap grit to get your mixture. Until a team can put together a lethal squad like the one here where half the team is somehow on ELCs, a pure skill team is unlikely to make noise.
27 août 2020 à 19 h 56
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Who'd you guys think would win between these 2 teams?


team all Stars by a mile
27 août 2020 à 20 h 47
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Lenny7
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Team not-so-gritty wins in 4.

I would argue that the grit emphasis started long before the Pens won. The ducks won with grit. Edmonton made The finals with grit. Calgary did the same with grit. But none of the teams that they played against were as stacked as that lineup!!!!
27 août 2020 à 20 h 53
#18
Lenny7
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Quoting: villenash
I think a grit team did beat a skill team -- CBJ v TOR.

But I don't think this grit team would beat the all-star team that you made. I think the grit defense is ultimately too slow and the all-star team would take advantage of that.


I don’t know. I don’t think playing the trap is “gritty” it’s just smart and not exciting for people that like to see 7 or 8 goals a game. Maybe I’m wrong. I guess it could be considered slightly gritty. Columbus has a lot of skilled players though.
27 août 2020 à 21 h 17
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Skill definitely
27 août 2020 à 22 h 12
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Skills Blueline is too good. If you went with the offensive skill dmen like Burns Carlson etc it might be different but that blueline is all-round lights out better
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27 août 2020 à 22 h 59
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I think it’s kind of close but I would say team skill wins on most nights. That said, team grit will bring it every night so if skill isn’t on their game, they aren’t winning
28 août 2020 à 10 h 44
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Team Grit.

I'd add Marchand, Ovechkin, Giroux, Gallagher, Price, Byfuglien.... out of retirement wink

Ovechkin-Dubois-Stone
Marchand-Giroux-Wilson
Tkachuk-Benn-Tkachuk
Lee-Wheeler-Gallagher

Nurse - Weber
Muzzin - Manson
Chara - Trouba

Price
28 août 2020 à 11 h 11
#23
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Team Skill would win.

You essentially have four first lines and three top pairings. Not that anyone on the Grit team is a slouch, but they'd have a difficult time breaking out and trying to get any offensive going.
28 août 2020 à 12 h 35
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Banni
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Quoting: Alfie11
I think Skill would absolutely blow Grit out of the water consistently. Like if they played a bo7, Skill would sweep 2 out of 3 series, and win the 3rd in 5 because Lehner or Rask played the game of their lives and everyone was clicking. Not only does Skill have 4 guys that were probably top 5 in the Norris race this year, but they have 14 forwards you just don't stop offensively. Like a good game against any one of Skill's lines would be only allowing them to score twice lol, that team should NEVER score less than 6 goals per game period. Skill's forwards are too fast, Grit's defense is too slow, and when Grit tries to counterattack they run into ridiculously good 2-way defenders. I think grit has its place in that playing a physical, hard forechecking style can be effective if you have high skill to back it up (like the way Boston or St. Louis play), but a pure grit team won't win more than a round (e.g. Columbus). An interesting concept for sure, but right now the ideal team is a mixture of both, and honestly bar a few anomalies where there's an overwhelming amount of skill, like this team, I think that'll probably remain true. The refs put the whistles away in the playoffs, which favours physical, "dirty" players far more than speedy skilled players, so while skill is obviously necessary in today's game, you've gotta have some big forecheckers to rough the other side up a bit too. The salary cap favours this build as well, as skill is more rare so it costs a premium, then you fill out the roster with cheap grit to get your mixture. Until a team can put together a lethal squad like the one here where half the team is somehow on ELCs, a pure skill team is unlikely to make noise.


Excellent analysis. I agree, I think a legit cup contender needs to have a little bit of both.
28 août 2020 à 12 h 37
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Banni
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Quoting: Lenny7
Team not-so-gritty wins in 4.

I would argue that the grit emphasis started long before the Pens won. The ducks won with grit. Edmonton made The finals with grit. Calgary did the same with grit. But none of the teams that they played against were as stacked as that lineup!!!!


Yeah that’s true. Grit was emphasized before the Pens won the cup too. Afterwards, everyone got faster & now everyone is starting to get big again.
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