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Post play in round thoughts

11 août 2020 à 23 h 35
#26
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Quoting: oneX
Another thing that bothered me was adding Johnsson to the lineup. If he was in mid-season form, I got no problem with that decision but he was not and Robertson looked like he was doing more than some guys in the lineup.

That is still bugging me. Tell me I'm wrong.


He didnt play too bad I feel.
How was he any different than any other forward not named Matthews, Tavares or Marner?
12 août 2020 à 2 h 12
#27
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Not so many comments on coaching, despite the Torts vs. Toronto media controversy.

Don't get me wrong, I know Keefe will be a great NHL coach. He did a great job preparing the team to play defense in this series. Auston Matthews was outstanding defensively, really. Each centre was (usually) defending the front of the net, addressing what was by far the most glaring weakness against Boston the years before. Keefe also converted Kerfoot into what he should have been from the start, a checking line third centre who plays on the PK.

Keefe did so many things well. But he also did inexplicable choices.

My main takeaway from the Columbus series is that the Leafs don't know how to adjust their play to the game situation, i.e. behind in the score, ahead, or even.

In the first game, Keefe cut his bench from the start of the second period. The fourth line played 3-4 minutes in total (really). Yet, the score was... 0-0. What is the reason to cut the bench? We went from a coach (Babcock) who played the fourth line and Komarov in critical moments late in third when trailing in the score. Now to the extreme opposite, cutting the bench when the game context doesn't justify it. That fell right in the Jackets' trap. The Marner line eventually got caught exhausted in the third, and some lazy play led to the winning goal.

The fifth game was the most shocking. Yet it's the same idea: the series was even, so panic was not justified. Keefe creates that super line, plays Nylander at centre (what?), and inserts Johnsson in the lineup... in an elimination game?

I'm trying to understand the rationale. To me, it sounds like he was expecting the Leafs to dominate the Jackets and score a ton, and that he resorted to extreme measures as soon as that did not happen. Not sure. But it was clear from the start that the Leafs faced an equally strong team, with a much better defense. There was no problem with the series being 2-2. The Leafs had momentum...

Anyway, it's not a big issue. I don't think the Leafs were ready yet to win the cup this year, in any case. Keefe will rebound, and I won't be surprised if he wins the cup in the next few years.
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12 août 2020 à 3 h 18
#28
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Modifié 12 août 2020 à 3 h 36
1 down 4 to go....4 long years for people shielding 5 x 11,634M being the best thing ever happened to TML and all the domino effect it dragged with it......

PS
I just came to say i told you ( by Stevie Wonder, no "being blind" pun intended )....back in February 2019 already
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12 août 2020 à 3 h 54
#29
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I see a lot of fans all over message boards talking major **** about almost every aspect of the team. I feel strongly like we are still a great team. We ran into two hot goalies on a defense first oriented team. 2% shooting percentage 5v5 is a fluke and we shouldn't make any drastic changes as a result of it.

I expect Johnsson to be traded for a pick in the offseason, with Robertson/Barabanov taking his place. Id like to sign DeMelo to a deal around 3x3 or 3x4. He is a defensively minded RHD who will not break the bank and is at an acceptable age. Also hes from southern Ontario which could help.

I honestly think our defense will be improved next year. As long as Muzzin doesn't drop off a cliff due to age. I like subtracting Barrie and Ceci and replacing them with Sandin and Dermott/Liljegren on the right side.

I've been open to trading Reilly for the right return, particularily an equal value RHD. This makes sense ina gamebot sense of way but im not sure it would be best for team moral. Reilly is well liked and is a leader on the team. Same goes for trading Anderson. I don't think he was the problem against Columbus, and he is best friends with Matthews. I can see us letting him walk into UFA but im not sure outright trading him is a good idea.

Id like to see us go big game hunting for a young expansion draft exempt rhd. A Soderstrrom or Lundkvist etc. Id be open to using Robertson in a trade for this kind of player.
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12 août 2020 à 9 h 15
#30
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Quoting: Trickster
What did you think of how our defence played?


Thought the defence played OK to good. Leafs were able to move the puck and weren't trapped in their own zone much. Certainly in that four goal game three "collapse", their were some Dman mistakes.
On course the talk on CapFriendly....for years, is that having any other RHD such as the middling Manson, or Jones for Marner, or somehow Weager is going to change the Leafs fortunes dramatically.
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12 août 2020 à 9 h 20
#31
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Quoting: leaflet
Not so many comments on coaching, despite the Torts vs. Toronto media controversy.

Just to comment on you post.

Yea, putting Nylander at centre in a deciding game to me was big mistake. He lost the face-off for the first goal. Not that object Nylander at centre. But have him prepare in the offseason and a full training camp.
The returning Johnsson for Robertson certainly iffy.

I didn't mind shortening the bench. The players were rested and had no travel, so maybe longer minutes for the better players isn't so much a factor as it is in the regular season.
12 août 2020 à 11 h 10
#32
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Quoting: palhal
Thought the defence played OK to good. Leafs were able to move the puck and weren't trapped in their own zone much. Certainly in that four goal game three "collapse", their were some Dman mistakes.
On course the talk on CapFriendly....for years, is that having any other RHD such as the middling Manson, or Jones for Marner, or somehow Weager is going to change the Leafs fortunes dramatically.


I certainly wouldn't use the word "dramatically", but moving two of Kappy/Johnsson/Mikheyev for RHD help should play a major role in solidifying our D. Leafs need a good shut down guy like Josh Manson to really keep our play in our own zone more consistent. Overall though I felt we were pretty solid against Columbus, our offense looked pretty deadly but had a hard time creating grade A scoring chances thanks to Tortorella's boring to watch but effective defensive system. Our defense was okay, and losing Muzzin definitely didn't help. Ultimately we lost because the Jackets scored on some lucky bounces, Korpisalo played like a god, Andersen let in some flukes, and Rielly, Barrie, and Ceci kept make defensive blunders.
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12 août 2020 à 12 h 25
#33
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Quoting: Daryl
I certainly wouldn't use the word "dramatically", but moving two of Kappy/Johnsson/Mikheyev for RHD help should play a major role in solidifying our D. Leafs need a good shut down guy like Josh Manson to really keep our play in our own zone more consistent. Overall though I felt we were pretty solid against Columbus, our offense looked pretty deadly but had a hard time creating grade A scoring chances thanks to Tortorella's boring to watch but effective defensive system. Our defense was okay, and losing Muzzin definitely didn't help. Ultimately we lost because the Jackets scored on some lucky bounces, Korpisalo played like a god, Andersen let in some flukes, and Rielly, Barrie, and Ceci kept make defensive blunders.


At least the Leafs won't have Ceci and Barrie back next setons. IMO Barrie has the Leafs worse Dman this season And Reilly...great with the puck. Average at best when defending. Manson and a lot of these RHDs that are so coveted by Leaf and non fans really aren't that special anymore.
Leafs are razor thin in NHL depth, and any injuries sure will be very damaging unless they acquire another NHL competent Dman or two.
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12 août 2020 à 13 h 15
#34
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@PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood @EnvironmentalTwister

Forgot to tag you guys in for thoughts.
12 août 2020 à 14 h 44
#35
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Quoting: Trickster
@PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood @EnvironmentalTwister

Forgot to tag you guys in for thoughts.


Trade Kapanen for gods sake
12 août 2020 à 15 h 7
#36
Banni
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Quoting: Trickster
Leafs should definitely have beaten the Blue Jackets but that ship has sailed now.

A couple of things definitely hindered us :

-Defence
Especially once Muzzin went down, it was difficult to watch at times.
Barrie and Marincin together were a horror show and I would have preferred to give a guy like Rosen a chance.
Rielly infuriated me at times, he made some good plays and the some bad ones... not an elite NHL d man like.
Our best D man was easily Holl all series.
Game 1 with Muzzin... man he made 3 to 4 mistakes that made me rage pretty hard.

-Andersen
I felt overall he played good enough to win but still lacked that 1 big save in the pivotal moments.

-Offence
Man hard to believe we couldn't score and got shutout 2 different times considering out top6.
I did not like going with more than 10 minutes of Matthews, Tavares, and Marner together in game 5. I get it, trying it for a bit but I would have preferred double shifting Matthews and Tavares instead of having Nylander at 2nd line C.


I still do not believe there will be any big changes.
The expansion draft is throwing a wrench in our ability to add a D man to this team.
The year to make a move for one will be once the expansion draft is over.
I am no longer against trading Rielly, I dont think is a #1 D man.


Would love to hear some constructive thoughts.
@palhal @jamiepo @onex @Sign_em_up000000 @jack_ @tomato43 @random2152 @SammyT_51 @OldNYIfan

Any one else feel free to also comment too.


Rielly was terrific he was all over the ice and was never the problem. Yeah he makes a mistake or two but what he can do, very few other can so I'll take it. He absolutely is elite. Muzzin was a huge loss. Holl was very good as well although I still would rather see him further down the lineup. Dermott was good and Barrie didn't do anything. Marincin was fine but you never really want him playing. The depth was useless. That is my biggest take away. Robertson scored a goal but really didn't do much and was so easily knocked off the puck. Kapanen for all his speed and energy accomplished nothing. Unless he decides to start going to the net, he should be traded immediately for a defenceman.
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12 août 2020 à 15 h 9
#37
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Quoting: oneX
Another thing that bothered me was adding Johnsson to the lineup. If he was in mid-season form, I got no problem with that decision but he was not and Robertson looked like he was doing more than some guys in the lineup.

That is still bugging me. Tell me I'm wrong.


Was he any worse than Robertson? All everyone seems to remember from him was his big chance in game one and he scored. Sure he went after the puck but Columbus just pushed him out of the way. He honestly did nothing of consequence. Johnsson showed me he's better then Kap. We should trade him
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12 août 2020 à 15 h 20
#38
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Quoting: palhal
At least the Leafs won't have Ceci and Barrie back next setons. IMO Barrie has the Leafs worse Dman this season And Reilly...great with the puck. Average at best when defending. Manson and a lot of these RHDs that are so coveted by Leaf and non fans really aren't that special anymore.
Leafs are razor thin in NHL depth, and any injuries sure will be very damaging unless they acquire another NHL competent Dman or two.


Yeah, I think you are right although I do think the better path forward us changing the style for different lines. Let the top 6 play the puck possession style and maybe move the bottom 6 into a Columbus style of cycle grinding dump and chase group. Also trade Kap
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12 août 2020 à 16 h 24
#39
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Quoting: Trickster
He didnt play too bad I feel.
How was he any different than any other forward not named Matthews, Tavares or Marner?


I think he showed enough to make me want to keep him. He is fine on either wing and works harder than most of the other depth.
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12 août 2020 à 16 h 33
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Honest questions here. Forget about cap hit and term for a minute, rank these players in terms of value to the team in a playoff series: Nylander, Marner, Hyman.

For me its: Hyman, Marner, Nylander. Not even sure if its that close TBH.
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12 août 2020 à 16 h 52
#41
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Quoting: Trickster
He didnt play too bad I feel.
How was he any different than any other forward not named Matthews, Tavares or Marner?


Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Was he any worse than Robertson? All everyone seems to remember from him was his big chance in game one and he scored. Sure he went after the puck but Columbus just pushed him out of the way. He honestly did nothing of consequence. Johnsson showed me he's better then Kap. We should trade him


Robertson was still showing more hustle than some players in lineup. Honestly I was thinking it was a mistake to even play Robertson in one game but hey guess he showed how wrong I was.

Also, like I said, no problem having Johnsson in the lineup when he's in mid-season form; but the fact is he was coming back from a longer hiatus than everyone else and that is why I'd say to him "just prepare for next season".
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12 août 2020 à 16 h 56
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Quoting: KoneDome
Honest questions here. Forget about cap hit and term for a minute, rank these players in terms of value to the team in a playoff series: Nylander, Marner, Hyman.

For me its: Hyman, Marner, Nylander. Not even sure if its that close TBH.


Probably but I'd say Hyman was slightly disappointing too. I felt in the series against Boston and Washington he was all over the ice. In this series he was not as noticable.
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12 août 2020 à 17 h 1
#43
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Quoting: KoneDome
Honest questions here. Forget about cap hit and term for a minute, rank these players in terms of value to the team in a playoff series: Nylander, Marner, Hyman.

For me its: Hyman, Marner, Nylander. Not even sure if its that close TBH.


Marner, Hyman, Nylander.

Marner was bertter overall.
I felt Hyman was not effective mostly but that game 4 comeback he was huge... he didnt do enough in ther other games.
Nylander, he showed some flaws and he will get better.
I didnt like using him strictly as the number 2 C in game 5... bad call IMO.

I do not see how we keep Hyman past his current deal, especially if he wants a raise, and after that regular season he had he might be able to fetch 4+ million AAV.
He is worker which is great but he lacks finish.
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12 août 2020 à 17 h 21
#44
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Quoting: oneX
Robertson was still showing more hustle than some players in lineup. Honestly I was thinking it was a mistake to even play Robertson in one game but hey guess he showed how wrong I was.

Also, like I said, no problem having Johnsson in the lineup when he's in mid-season form; but the fact is he was coming back from a longer hiatus than everyone else and that is why I'd say to him "just prepare for next season".


Johnsson certainly didn't hurt us, but he didn't score on a grade a chance either. But he was loads better than Kapanen or Mikheyev in the game. Those two did nothing the entire series. Mikheyev was better of the two but I expected more. We need guys crashing the net. When Nylander is one of your better guys for going to the net you have a problem
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13 août 2020 à 13 h 28
#45
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Quoting: Trickster
Marner, Hyman, Nylander.

Marner was bertter overall.
I felt Hyman was not effective mostly but that game 4 comeback he was huge... he didnt do enough in ther other games.
Nylander, he showed some flaws and he will get better.
I didnt like using him strictly as the number 2 C in game 5... bad call IMO.

I do not see how we keep Hyman past his current deal, especially if he wants a raise, and after that regular season he had he might be able to fetch 4+ million AAV.
He is worker which is great but he lacks finish.


When it comes to Hyman's next contract, that has to be an absolute priority to get done. He offers things that literally no other leafs player does. He is more important to the team than Nylander is. Nylander had a solid year, but you move him if that is the only way to sign Hyman.
13 août 2020 à 13 h 39
#46
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Quoting: KoneDome
When it comes to Hyman's next contract, that has to be an absolute priority to get done. He offers things that literally no other leafs player does. He is more important to the team than Nylander is. Nylander had a solid year, but you move him if that is the only way to sign Hyman.


I'm gonna choose to disagree with you because I feel Nylander will improve still and Hyman is likely to get worse.

Father time catches up to us all, on that basis alone
Nylander > Hyman


Your not wrong regarding what Hyman brings to the table.
This is why I want to keep Johnsson and rather Kapanen and probably Kerfoot too.
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13 août 2020 à 21 h 19
#47
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Quoting: KoneDome
. Nylander had a solid year, but you move him if that is the only way to sign Hyman.


This is an insane take.
14 août 2020 à 12 h 12
#48
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Quoting: tomato43
This is an insane take.


Hyman's contract is going to be an overpay
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18 août 2020 à 1 h 44
#49
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Was he any worse than Robertson? All everyone seems to remember from him was his big chance in game one and he scored. Sure he went after the puck but Columbus just pushed him out of the way. He honestly did nothing of consequence. Johnsson showed me he's better then Kap. We should trade him


My point on Johnsson was that mid-season form Johnsson would have been more gritty and dangerous and in that case, it's a no-brainer to have him in the lineup over Robertson but truthfully, Johnsson was looking like just another guy out on the ice who was not as effective as we know he usually is.


Now, as for the coaching decision on having that one super line. Look, I'm okay with trying that during the last 5 minutes of the 3rd period but having the line for the entire game just weakened the rest of the lines. That decision kind of frustrated me most of the night and I'm still pissed off about it.

Thought Keefe was smarter than that.
18 août 2020 à 6 h 53
#50
Banni
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Quoting: oneX
My point on Johnsson was that mid-season form Johnsson would have been more gritty and dangerous and in that case, it's a no-brainer to have him in the lineup over Robertson but truthfully, Johnsson was looking like just another guy out on the ice who was not as effective as we know he usually is.


Now, as for the coaching decision on having that one super line. Look, I'm okay with trying that during the last 5 minutes of the 3rd period but having the line for the entire game just weakened the rest of the lines. That decision kind of frustrated me most of the night and I'm still pissed off about it.

Thought Keefe was smarter than that.


The rest of the team had done nothing the whole series though. Also JT scores instead of hitting the post and people are talking completely different.
 
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