If Dubas calls around about Marner there will be loads of teams very interested. He only recently turned 23. Not many players have put teams on their back at 23. Hell Edmonton missed the playoffs the previous two years despite having McDavid and Drai. The cap is flat, but it is not falling. Marner is over paid by a million or 2. Almost all teams have much more than that in over-paid salaries, much of it that will be coming off the books in the next year or two. And his actually salary is low. 700K for next season when many owners are going to be under a tight financial squeeze. He is 11th in points over the past 2 seasons, despite missing 11 games, and being younger than anyone in the top 18. Runs the PP. PKs. Entertains fans. He is a very valuable player.

If Toronto doesn't get a extremely good return for him then they don't trade him. The team would remain unbalanced, but that is far better than being terrible because they make a bad trade. Marner brings in tons of money into the organization - as he would for any other organization.

Nobody is arguing is Marner valuable, but he's not worth his $11M cap hit TODAY and has to be able to take a team on his back to really earn that IMO. I get he's 23 which I mentioned above to wrap up my comment which is what a team is doing, acquiring his futures to bet he will be worth $11M cap hit. The cap hit means everything in today's flat cap environment. The salary is attractive as a second factor but the cap hit is every team's concern not only next year but moving forward. Even Ottawa, will have quite a few ELCs to renew in the next 3 years (4 years including this draft).

Marner is very good, nobody is debating that, the debate in a trade scenario is, is Marner worth his $11M cap hit? The answer IMO is no. He's not a top 5 player in the league despite a cap hit like one. Heck, he's not even a top 10 player in the league.

Marner runs the PP (thought that was Matthews) and PK (he's not great defensively). That's news.

Just stop. We thought you realized no one valued your opinion when you asked everyone on twitter how the game was going and no one answered you.

I wouldn't mind trading Marner if the right trade came along. But your trade suggestion is horrid. Hornquist and Johnson take up about 9m in bad cap.
Leafs would trade Marner for futures....and get some cap relief or trade for a 10m quality player(s).

You need to talk to someone about your obsession. Are these cries for help?

I think your evaluation is too harsh. My opinion is the same as palhal above: If a trade opportunity comes along - and the return has to be really high - I wouldn't mind. Simply because the cap structure will prevent the Leafs from achieving success, in my opinion. Not so much because of Marner's play on the ice.

The proposed trade, however, is utterly horrible for the Leafs.

Sorry @leafs_and_sens_fan

I posted that bc it’s what I saw from nhl.com

Fair argument, he's definitely been overplaying the puck & trying to make a highlight reel every shift. When it doesn't work for him, he's frustrated & just floats around. He has to learn to simplify his game offensively to the level he played last season.

I wouldn't trade Marner, he's still better than anyone out there that they could realistically get for him. "Heart" and leadership are important qualities but shouldn't come at the expense of skill, and Marner has lots of it. I also disagree that the coaches don't like him, especially now that he's on the PK I think Keefe actually trusts him more than Babcock ever did. He's been up and down this season, but was still over a PPG and is in the 1st year of his 6-year deal. Let's be patient.

Nylander held out because the GM was only willing to give up 5 million when he was worth 6-7. He wanted to be compensated fairly. Marner was turning down 10 million AAV x 3 year offers which is insane & already an overpayment.

I mean, Marner's always gonna be the guy carrying the puck cuz that's his strength while the center positions himself down low to receive the pass & shoot it. Against CBJ, they're not giving the Leafs any space to set up so for Marner, instead of looking for the perfect pass, needs to start cycling the puck & forecheck so CBJ gets overwhelmed for an opening. In a tight checking series like this he needs to change his game.

I agree he's an important player, but his performance is just not at the level it needs to be. Time is sticking, if they don't win anything in the next 2 seasons, the top players Matthews & JT are gonna want out. So that's why I feel they gotta trade Marner. Front office has to show that they're willing to make significant changes to address the team's failures.

I mean, the package seems close in my opinion since Johnson & Hornqvist, despite being old, are still solid players & they offer exactly what the Leafs need. I agree I'm being harsh on Marner, but having watched him play like sh*t all season, enough is enough.

So you really don’t see the issue with this, do you?

For me, it’s come to the point in which TOR needs to trade Marner at all costs. If they lose this series again & he plays badly, that’s 4 years in a row in which they can’t get past the first round. I have to think that if they continue to show no progress, the top guys Matthews, Tavares, Rielly & Nylander are gonna want out. So front office needs to be smart & show their support to the top players by addressing the problem that is holding them back: Marner.

I mean it’s not good to hold out, but he wasn’t at fault & he didn’t get overpaid, so I have no issue with it.

I agree that skill & talent is extremely important, but skill & talent is useless if the player doesn’t work hard or is hindered by arrogance, which seems to be the case for Marner. Honestly, I don’t think things changing as long as he remains on the team. So why not try & fix the problem by going after someone who has the right mentality to help the team, plus has solid skill too?

Can you show me the quote or source you have on Dubas lowballing Nylander with $5 million per year offer when Michael Nylander was asking for $8.5 million per year.

Just weird that you cite holding out as this reason for trading marner, but it’s okay for other guys. Weird indeed.

This may sound dumb but I’d rather move Tavares over marner

The problem with getting to the point where you feel you need to trade a player at all costs is that you end up with a bad trade. I think that Kadri needed to be traded last summer. I think that probably could have got a better return with more patience. I know that people are going a little off the deep end with the cap being flat, but Marner is still an extremely good asset that will get a very return, even in this environment. Perhaps - especially - in this environment. Keep in mind that Marner is only owed 700K next season. That makes him one of the cheapest players in the league at the very time when a ton of teams are very short in cash flow.

However, I don't imagine any of us can say if Marner is the problem holding the team back. I assume that if there is a problem player on the team and that player has not been moved then it is a big name player, but only the team would know who that is. I have wanted him gone because of the toxicity around the contract negotiations, but we don't actually know if that has caused a problem within the locker room. I remember when ROR was believed to be the problem in Buffalo.

Tavares has a full-NMC so there is no sense considering that.

I was fine with the idea of the Leafs trading Nylander or letting him sit for the year during the hold out. However, it was also very professional on all sides. Nylander's issues were that he didn't want to get traded and he wanted what he, and I think that most fans feel is a fair contract - and one that he will probably out play.

With Marner it was different. His agent and father were extremely unprofessional throughout. Beaking off to the media, complaining about Matthews contract, complaining about the ELC contract that Marner signed, constantly using the media to push their agenda. I won't forgive or forget the player who claimed to be a down to earth, awe-shucks, just living the childhood dream, kid who refused to sign for anything less than an extreme over-payment, even if that meant sucking every single cent of cap space the team had. Marner is over-paid and there is almost no chance he outplays his contract. I wanted him traded, and I will continue to wish that he is traded.

Fair, but if he didn’t Tavares would be my go to. For rn I’d try and manage with the core they have before trading a major piece

I agree. If Tavares did not have a NMC I would be trying to move him.

As for the idea of trying to manage with the core they have. I just don't think it is practical. Those 4 contracts were signed with the belief that the cap would be closing in 100M in the next 3 or 4 years. That isn't happening. When I try to create a roster for 2021-22 or the year after things are very bleak if they keep all four. Any player, say Sandin or Mikheyev, can only be kept if they either under-perform, or they agree to take a massive discount. Otherwise they are all lost either through trades, offer sheets or free agency. You could hope that they will take massive discounts, and yes there will be a squeeze on RFAs and journeyman players, but there is little reason why they should take big discounts when the big-4 all refused to take any kind of discount, and in the case of Marner demanded a contract that he will never outplay. Keep in mind that we are not just talking about for the next year or two, but most likely for 5 or 6 years or longer before the cap really starts to go up a lot again. For players like Mikheyev, who is almost 26, you are asking him to accept a massive discount throughout his prime earning years for the pleasure of playing with 4 players who put themselves ahead of the team. Dermott wil be 24 around the time the next season starts. Sandin agreed to no bonuses on his ELC. Why should the team continually gut itself of every upcoming good player because they need to keep 4 overpaid players?

In keeping them you are also committing to keeping an unbalanced roster that will not be competitive for the cup.