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Forums/Trade Machine Proposals

Hughes Reunited Pt2

Créé par: vmark
Publié: 21 juill. 2020 à 14 h 1
Plafond salarial: 81 500 000 $
Journées à la saison: 41/186 (22%)
Détermination du registraire central: Cette transaction a rempli les différents critères exigés par le registraire central de la LNH.

Logo de Devils du New JerseyDevils du New Jersey

DépartStatutSalaire retenuCap hit effectifFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Hughes, JackExempté du ballottageDevils du New JerseyLNH-203 897 $111---6171421--
ArrivéeStatutSalaire retenuCap hit effectifFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Virtanen, JakeCanucks de VancouverLNH-275 537 $111---69181836--
Juolevi, OlliExempté du ballottageCanucks de VancouverMineures-0 $011---0000--
Gaudette, AdamCanucks de VancouverLNH-202 061 $111---59132033--
Choix de 1e ronde en 2021 (Logo de Canucks de VancouverVAN)---100------
VariationEspace sous le plafond salarialFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Initial18 010 834 $2145685514
Variation-273 701 $122100
Final17 737 133 $ (↓)22 (↑)47 (↑)70 (↑)6 (↑)514242448

Logo de Canucks de VancouverCanucks de Vancouver

La transaction a eu lieu alors que la LTIR est utilisée
Allègement provenant de la liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR): 8 666 667 $
Portion de la LTIR utilisée avant la transaction: 4 697 500 $
DépartStatutSalaire retenuCap hit effectifFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Virtanen, JakeCanucks de VancouverLNH-1 250 000 $111---69181836--
Juolevi, OlliExempté du ballottageCanucks de VancouverMineures-0 $011---0000--
Gaudette, AdamCanucks de VancouverLNH-916 667 $111---59132033--
Choix de 1e ronde en 2021 (Logo de Canucks de VancouverVAN)---100------
ArrivéeStatutSalaire retenuCap hit effectifFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Hughes, JackExempté du ballottageDevils du New JerseyLNH-925 000 $111---6171421--
VariationEspace sous le plafond salarialFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Initial3 969 167 $2448633512
Variation1 241 667 $-1-2-2-100
Final5 210 834 $ (↑)23 (↓)46 (↓)61 (↓)2 (↓)512-24-240
21 juill. 2020 à 14 h 4
#1
IG vincemark78
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I was thinking about adding some more draft capital on VAN's side, but this is a tough one to nail down. Of course you could say that Jersey isn't getting enough, but if you really look at each of those pieces, they're pretty solid pieces.

Nobody is saying Jack is about to end up being the next Yakupov, but that's more likely now than any year since '12.

I wanted to include Eriksson, but then it just became an incredibly large deal because of what he would cost VAN to part with as well as those pieces above.
reelkena a aimé ceci.
21 juill. 2020 à 14 h 17
#2
Fanboys make bad Gms
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Quoting: vmark
I was thinking about adding some more draft capital on VAN's side, but this is a tough one to nail down. Of course you could say that Jersey isn't getting enough, but if you really look at each of those pieces, they're pretty solid pieces.

Nobody is saying Jack is about to end up being the next Yakupov, but that's more likely now than any year since '12.

I wanted to include Eriksson, but then it just became an incredibly large deal because of what he would cost VAN to part with as well as those pieces above.


Before a bunch of people comment this will never happen, we know this will happen. Put that aside. This isn't bad. I would feel bad from Van's side losing all this. but that just means NJ is getting good stuff because I know they'd hurt giving up on Jack.

8/10
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21 juill. 2020 à 16 h 36
#3
HutsonNorlinderGuhle
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This is a good trade value wise. But if Boeser isn’t leaving, where is Jack’s spot in the lineup?
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21 juill. 2020 à 16 h 44
#4
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Quoting: HabsFan9
This is a good trade value wise. But if Boeser isn’t leaving, where is Jack’s spot in the lineup?


Van's thinking would clearly be "we'll make room. another trade later is fine"
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21 juill. 2020 à 20 h 17
#5
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Cap wise this would solve a lot of issues for the Canucks. Allowing to resign all key pieces.

Lots of good pieces for NJ.
JV can play either wing in the the top 9 maybe top 6
OJ LHD top 4 ceiling
Gaudette good 3C for sure upside a 2C

NJ still keeps top 2-1sts & fills many holes.
Canucks depth takes a fair hit but if Jack can be fit in a position to excel it could work but where is that?

Also giving up the 1st is my only hang up.
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21 juill. 2020 à 21 h 12
#6
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Quoting: HabsFan9
This is a good trade value wise. But if Boeser isn’t leaving, where is Jack’s spot in the lineup?


Probably the 2nd line left winger after Pearson's contract expires
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21 juill. 2020 à 21 h 43
#7
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Why on earth would the Devils do this? They get 3 ok players and a late first for Jack Hughes? Not a chance.
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22 juill. 2020 à 5 h 54
#8
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@Nighthawk My thinking was that, on paper, those 3 pieces without the first DO make sense, but to get the #1 pick from last year this early in his career, you kind of have to overpay, at least a little bit. The thing is though VAN is a win now team and if they pulled this off, it would be a huge boost for the organization.

They would have to figure out where Hughes fits in, but coming from one of the worst teams in the league to a true contender stacked with role models, young players, and his brother... you'd think he would probably figure it out. Or Travis Green would at least.

@Kotkaniemi15 NJ would do this for a number of reasons, but mainly to be nice to Jack so he could play with his brother.

I find it interesting you say these players are just "ok", because that's completely and utterly missing the point.

Gaudette and Virtanen are everyday NHL players at the time of this writing, coming into RFA status this offseason. They both have legitimate potential, with a couple seasons before their true primes hit. This Devils team is going to suck again next year, which would be a huge opportunity for these guys to get paid and prove they belong in the league. I could see Ruff playing both of these guys big time minutes and in more varied situations. Sure they could both fail, but with the added motivation and opportunity I don't find that likely.

So directly in the now, NJ might be getting 2 (not 3) ok NHL players in this deal, but they have high ceilings that if fulfilled, would mean both graduated from ok to good. And while it's an outside shot, they could also both be really good one day. Both of them.

You have to take that into account looking at this deal as these are both far from finished players on the ice who are still under team control.

Nighthawk actually already pointed out reasonable expectations for both of them above.

The other player you were talking about, Juolevi, is a far from finished piece. He is not an NHL player right now. So to deem him OK makes no sense, because we have no idea what he is at the NHL level. He has done decent enough in the AHL from my scope at his numbers, but this is a guy who was picked #5 in 2016 over guys at his position like Sergachev, McAvoy, Chychrun, and Girard, all who have NHL jobs at legit salaries. What does that mean? Could be nothing. Could be that he is the second coming of Nick Lidstrom. We don't know. But he is a super valuable prospect, and if he pans out, and those other two ok guys become good, then this trade has already paid for itself.

Which brings me to the 1st rd pick. I don't understand why you would devalue that and say "late first" because we have no idea where that pick will land whatsoever. But the thing is, it doesn't matter. Sure a crap team's 1st would be better, but in general 1sts are incredibly valuable in today's NHL. Even if Fitzgerald didn't want to use the pick itself, it would allow him to do some very interesting trades if he wanted to. To gain market flexibility on a team with tons of cap space is desirable.

A more accurate way to put what you said would be to call it a mid to late 1st, and since we don't know at all where it will land, yours is a very short sighted assessment.

To illustrate this point, let's look back to 2015. This was the last draft class that, right now with 100% certainty, we can say was completely loaded. Funnily enough it might also go down as the worst moment in Boston draft history which I find to be quite amusing. Imagine if they had picked Barzal and Connor with DeBrusk!! But that's besides the point. From pick 15 down we have these players selected: Barzal (16), Connor (17), Boeser (23), Konecny (24), and Beauvillier (28). That's 4 super good NHL players and one who could be soon.

For perspective, Barzal, Connor, and Boeser were all much, much better in their rookie years than Jack Hughes was. Barzal won the Calder and Boeser was a finalist who got injured. Hughes couldn't even come close to a whiff of the Calder this year.

Not to take anything away from the young man, but if we are going to be honest, Jack Hughes just had the worst rookie season of a #1 overall pick since Nail Yakupov's rookie season in '12. And also, Yak's rookie year was WAY better than Hughes' just was. So the biggest #1 overall draft bust of the past decade had a MUCH better rookie year than Hughes just did.

Let that sink in.

Sure he was the #1 pick, but #2 Kappo Kakko also had a dirt rookie season on a stacked Rangers team. It's quite early, but the 2019 draft class might have just been a bad one.

That is a legitimate risk at this point, and while again it is early, I feel like the chances of those 4 pieces being better over time is pretty high. Especially if they use the pick correctly and sign the RFAs to smart deals.

If Jack Hughes had just put up a Crosby like 100+ P in his first year, this is a moot discussion. But he basically just did the opposite of that.

So why does NJ do this trade? Take your pick

A. It would be nice to see Jack play with Quinn for their entire careers on a team that just had their super star brothers retire not too long ago. Or in other words, compassion.
B. Players acquired benefit their TEAM.
C. Market Flexibility
D. Draft Capital
E. More is (sometimes) better in a team sport like hockey

My answer is
F. All of the effing above
remowilliams a aimé ceci.
22 juill. 2020 à 10 h 33
#9
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Quoting: vmark
@Nighthawk My thinking was that, on paper, those 3 pieces without the first DO make sense, but to get the #1 pick from last year this early in his career, you kind of have to overpay, at least a little bit. The thing is though VAN is a win now team and if they pulled this off, it would be a huge boost for the organization.

They would have to figure out where Hughes fits in, but coming from one of the worst teams in the league to a true contender stacked with role models, young players, and his brother... you'd think he would probably figure it out. Or Travis Green would at least.

@Kotkaniemi15 NJ would do this for a number of reasons, but mainly to be nice to Jack so he could play with his brother.

I find it interesting you say these players are just "ok", because that's completely and utterly missing the point.

Gaudette and Virtanen are everyday NHL players at the time of this writing, coming into RFA status this offseason. They both have legitimate potential, with a couple seasons before their true primes hit. This Devils team is going to suck again next year, which would be a huge opportunity for these guys to get paid and prove they belong in the league. I could see Ruff playing both of these guys big time minutes and in more varied situations. Sure they could both fail, but with the added motivation and opportunity I don't find that likely.

So directly in the now, NJ might be getting 2 (not 3) ok NHL players in this deal, but they have high ceilings that if fulfilled, would mean both graduated from ok to good. And while it's an outside shot, they could also both be really good one day. Both of them.

You have to take that into account looking at this deal as these are both far from finished players on the ice who are still under team control.

Nighthawk actually already pointed out reasonable expectations for both of them above.

The other player you were talking about, Juolevi, is a far from finished piece. He is not an NHL player right now. So to deem him OK makes no sense, because we have no idea what he is at the NHL level. He has done decent enough in the AHL from my scope at his numbers, but this is a guy who was picked #5 in 2016 over guys at his position like Sergachev, McAvoy, Chychrun, and Girard, all who have NHL jobs at legit salaries. What does that mean? Could be nothing. Could be that he is the second coming of Nick Lidstrom. We don't know. But he is a super valuable prospect, and if he pans out, and those other two ok guys become good, then this trade has already paid for itself.

Which brings me to the 1st rd pick. I don't understand why you would devalue that and say "late first" because we have no idea where that pick will land whatsoever. But the thing is, it doesn't matter. Sure a crap team's 1st would be better, but in general 1sts are incredibly valuable in today's NHL. Even if Fitzgerald didn't want to use the pick itself, it would allow him to do some very interesting trades if he wanted to. To gain market flexibility on a team with tons of cap space is desirable.

A more accurate way to put what you said would be to call it a mid to late 1st, and since we don't know at all where it will land, yours is a very short sighted assessment.

To illustrate this point, let's look back to 2015. This was the last draft class that, right now with 100% certainty, we can say was completely loaded. Funnily enough it might also go down as the worst moment in Boston draft history which I find to be quite amusing. Imagine if they had picked Barzal and Connor with DeBrusk!! But that's besides the point. From pick 15 down we have these players selected: Barzal (16), Connor (17), Boeser (23), Konecny (24), and Beauvillier (28). That's 4 super good NHL players and one who could be soon.

For perspective, Barzal, Connor, and Boeser were all much, much better in their rookie years than Jack Hughes was. Barzal won the Calder and Boeser was a finalist who got injured. Hughes couldn't even come close to a whiff of the Calder this year.

Not to take anything away from the young man, but if we are going to be honest, Jack Hughes just had the worst rookie season of a #1 overall pick since Nail Yakupov's rookie season in '12. And also, Yak's rookie year was WAY better than Hughes' just was. So the biggest #1 overall draft bust of the past decade had a MUCH better rookie year than Hughes just did.

Let that sink in.

Sure he was the #1 pick, but #2 Kappo Kakko also had a dirt rookie season on a stacked Rangers team. It's quite early, but the 2019 draft class might have just been a bad one.

That is a legitimate risk at this point, and while again it is early, I feel like the chances of those 4 pieces being better over time is pretty high. Especially if they use the pick correctly and sign the RFAs to smart deals.

If Jack Hughes had just put up a Crosby like 100+ P in his first year, this is a moot discussion. But he basically just did the opposite of that.

So why does NJ do this trade? Take your pick

A. It would be nice to see Jack play with Quinn for their entire careers on a team that just had their super star brothers retire not too long ago. Or in other words, compassion.
B. Players acquired benefit their TEAM.
C. Market Flexibility
D. Draft Capital
E. More is (sometimes) better in a team sport like hockey

My answer is
F. All of the effing above


well said
vmark a aimé ceci.
22 juill. 2020 à 22 h 1
#10
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@remowilliams Appreciate it bud! Thanks for reading
 
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