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Could Toronto Target A Cheap RHD

Créé par: AnalyticsGeek
Équipe: 2020-21 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 13 juill. 2020
Publié: 13 juill. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
It would be ideal for Toronto to add someone like DeMelo in free agency, but as of right now, I think Toronto’s defense corps is set for next season the way it currently is. However, I wonder if they could go after a young RHD prospect on ELC, perhaps they can work him up the lineup and have him turn into the next John Marino. If you know any players that could fit this scenario, please comment down below.
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RFAANSCAP HIT
21 750 000 $
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UFAANSCAP HIT
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1.
TOR
    Alec Regula
    CHI
      2020 2nd Round Pick
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      TOR
        Andrew Peeke
        CBJ
          2020 2nd Round Pick
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          TOR
            Gustav Lindstrom
            DET
              2020 6th Round Pick (COL)
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              TOR
                Matt Roy
                LAK
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                    Dylan Coghlan
                    VGK
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                        Zachary Whitecloud
                        VGK
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                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 40
                          #51
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                          Quoting: mhockey91
                          Dermott is a bottom pairing D whose 23 and hasn’t even cracked the leafs top 4 Even with injuries. (Maybe a few games towards the end but that’s it) No team is trading a first for him. Get real.

                          not worth a first. But a bit of an undervaluation there. He was top 4 as soon as one of Mo or Muzzin was injured.

                          I think he should get a shot on Muzzin's right side this season. See what he really is, because he hasn't been given much opportunity, but has actually looked pretty solid when handed time in the top 4. That said, you can't rely on him for that. If he falters, you've gotta be one step ahead of it with a reliable option to plug in there
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 42
                          #52
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                          Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
                          Guess what... he was one of those injuries.

                          Leafs aren't moving Dermott unless it's for a 1st. If nobody gives a 1st we keep him. It's that simple.


                          Okay yes cause I forgot you’re secretly Kyle Dubas. Whoops my bad. Truth is, considering the lack of minutes Dermott plays, it doesn’t seem like he’s viewed very highly in the organization or else he would’ve been given more chances at a top 4 position. If you’re expecting a first round pick for Dermott, you’re gonna be disappointed.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 44
                          #53
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                          Quoting: mhockey91
                          Okay yes cause I forgot you’re secretly Kyle Dubas. Whoops my bad. Truth is, considering the lack of minutes Dermott plays, it doesn’t seem like he’s viewed very highly in the organization or else he would’ve been given more chances at a top 4 position. If you’re expecting a first round pick for Dermott, you’re gonna be disappointed.


                          I'm not expecting him to get moved... they want to put him on the top pairing with Rielly next season.
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                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 44
                          #54
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                          Quoting: leafs101
                          not worth a first. But a bit of an undervaluation there. He was top 4 as soon as one of Mo or Muzzin was injured.

                          I think he should get a shot on Muzzin's right side this season. See what he really is, because he hasn't been given much opportunity, but has actually looked pretty solid when handed time in the top 4. That said, you can't rely on him for that. If he falters, you've gotta be one step ahead of it with a reliable option to plug in there


                          I agree 100%. In these play ins, play him on the right side with Rielly. Give him that opportunity to see how he really is. I don’t know why the leafs are so against playing him top pairing right side when Rielly clearly needs a stable D partner. My only theory is that coaching still isn’t very high on him or doesn’t trust him enough
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 45
                          #55
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                          Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
                          I'm not expecting him to get moved... they want to put him on the top pairing with Rielly next season.


                          Like I said in my above comment, do it in the play-ins and let’s see how he does. There’s been talk about Dermott as this top 4 D for years but I haven’t seen anything yet
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 50
                          #56
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                          Banni
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                          Quoting: mhockey91
                          I agree 100%. In these play ins, play him on the right side with Rielly. Give him that opportunity to see how he really is. I don’t know why the leafs are so against playing him top pairing right side when Rielly clearly needs a stable D partner. My only theory is that coaching still isn’t very high on him or doesn’t trust him enough


                          I think it could be true that the coaching staff doesn’t look Iike him, similarly to the Riikola situation in Pittsburgh. I have no idea why he doesn’t get to play over Ceci & Barrie, cuz in terms of on ice results, he’s done better than both of them. Even this upcoming playoffs, it looks like they’re going with Ceci, which is pretty much setting them up for failure.
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                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 52
                          #57
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                          Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
                          I think it could be true that the coaching staff doesn’t look Iike him, similarly to the Riikola situation in Pittsburgh. I have no idea why he doesn’t get to play over Ceci & Barrie, cuz in terms of on ice results, he’s done better than both of them. Even this upcoming playoffs, it looks like they’re going with Ceci, which is pretty much setting them up for failure.


                          I agree with that analysis. Which is why I think a Dermott trade is entirely possible. He SHOULD be playing more and he’s not.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 54
                          #58
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                          Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
                          Well he definitely isnt a top 4 D man. Toronto has one of the weakest right sides in the league and he got pushed down the depth charts to the 3rd pairing.



                          The Leafs' rely on Ceci to play with Rielly when they are protecting the lead and when they are playing against tough teams - hence Ceci played with Barrie during the Leafs' last game and that is the season - their 2-1 win over Tampa - and why Ceci was in the 80th percentile for QoC this season (higher than Muzzin) and Barrie was in the 31st percentile. The problem for the Leafs' all season was finding a set up that worked with getting the strengths out of Barrie while trying to minimize the weaknesses. Muzzin and Barrie didn't work. Muzzin and Holl did. Barrie and Sandin together were a raging tire fire. Ceci and Sandin worked very well together.

                          Leafs fans whine and moan constantly that their D sucks. And when they get a D who spent the whole season taking the defensive situations so Barrie could take all the offensive ones, and who did so while getting scored on less often than any other Leafs' D, having an xGA rate lower than any other their other D (except for Dermott) and with the lowest rate of high danger chances against - and remember did so while going up against very high QoC and being used in a defensive role, fans do nothing but whine and moan about him.

                          The people who know the most such as Keefe and Dubas completely disagree with you.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 56
                          #59
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                          toronto has 2 options. Wait for liligren which honestly isnt a bad idea as he is almost ready. Even if he isnt fully ready place him with Muzzin. Muzzin can help him improve his skills and become a solid top 4.

                          or go one of the Pittsburgh route. They got Petterson through an AHL trade as anaheim didnt feel he was ready. Or they grab a young defenseman and wait for him to develop. Like Pittsburgh did with Marino.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 57
                          #60
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                          Quoting: keep_ups12
                          I brought up Jones because "he is a top 10 d man" who can carry the right side. Since he is that good you don't need Savard. You also have Nut (Who i don't if he could play on the right side). And no that is not trolling. And I was asking again "why do you sell so high on Savard". He isn't worth a 2c, which is a pretty high ask. And I was thinking since you have so many defense man you don't need Peeke but I guess not


                          See I don’t think Jones is a top 10 D at the moment. I’d also say Peeke isn’t 100% NHL ready either, he played very protected minutes in the NHL vs 3rd and 4th lines only. I’d also agree that Savard alone isn’t worth a 2nd line center, that being said Columbus’s biggest hole in the line up is at 2nd line center. I try to stay level and look to the future and honestly I don’t see a future with Columbus having Savard unless he’s takes a pay cut as that cap space will be needed for Jones and Werenski’s extensions.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 58
                          #61
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                          Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
                          I’m not sure how other Leaf fans feel but I would be willing to give up Liljegren for Peeke. I think Liljegren has the higher upside, but Peeke is probably the safer choice plus is more NHL ready.


                          IMO Toronto would be better off keeping Liljegren. He will be as good as Peeke is next year.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 20 h 3
                          #62
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                          Quoting: Miles_Togo
                          The Leafs' rely on Ceci to play with Rielly when they are protecting the lead and when they are playing against tough teams - hence Ceci played with Barrie during the Leafs' last game and that is the season - their 2-1 win over Tampa - and why Ceci was in the 80th percentile for QoC this season (higher than Muzzin) and Barrie was in the 31st percentile. The problem for the Leafs' all season was finding a set up that worked with getting the strengths out of Barrie while trying to minimize the weaknesses. Muzzin and Barrie didn't work. Muzzin and Holl did. Barrie and Sandin together were a raging tire fire. Ceci and Sandin worked very well together.

                          Leafs fans whine and moan constantly that their D sucks. And when they get a D who spent the whole season taking the defensive situations so Barrie could take all the offensive ones, and who did so while getting scored on less often than any other Leafs' D, having an xGA rate lower than any other their other D (except for Dermott) and with the lowest rate of high danger chances against - and remember did so while going up against very high QoC and being used in a defensive role, fans do nothing but whine and moan about him.

                          The people who know the most such as Keefe and Dubas completely disagree with you.


                          Are you his relative or something? I've seen him play in Ottawa and Toronto. He's a solid 3rd pairing D.

                          Nothing more. Nothing less.

                          Ceci got knocked out of his job by Holl and was playing on the 3rd pairing with Sandin at the end of the season.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 20 h 17
                          #63
                          Banni
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                          I'm insulted I wasn't summoned to the input council.
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                          13 juill. 2020 à 20 h 19
                          #64
                          Chicago Blackhawks
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                          I'm not saying the value isn't there in getting a 2nd for Regula, but personally from what I've seen of him, I don't want to part with him. I think the kid has massive potential. So if I'm Stan, I pass.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 20 h 25
                          #65
                          Kings v5 GM
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                          Quoting: Ajp_18
                          I’m not sure we want to keep Savard. We just don’t have use for another middle 6 LW or AHL RW for him. Why bring up Jones? That just makes you seem like you’re trolling. I was just trying to say that Columbus would want to keep Peeke so he can replace Savard, not need to be a prick about it.


                          Not everyone has been brainwashed into thinking seth Jones is that good
                          13 juill. 2020 à 20 h 26
                          #66
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                          I think it's definitely possible, and I'd be happy to see them do it if they can swing a good deal for one. Guys that I like personally are Roy and Lyubushkin.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 20 h 34
                          #67
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                          Jackets aren’t going to trade Peeke.
                          You might talk them into trading Clendening though.
                          but not Peeke.
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                          13 juill. 2020 à 20 h 44
                          #68
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                          Quoting: Gordon_Bombay
                          what do you see as a realistic return for Dermott and Johnsson as a package?


                          A mid 1st
                          13 juill. 2020 à 20 h 51
                          #69
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                          Modifié 13 juill. 2020 à 20 h 59
                          Quoting: TML_Tika
                          I think you are right that it is extremely risky and the reason why Dubas is going to add one more experienced NHL defenceman as a UFA on the cheap. Although it is extremely risky I also think it is extremely rewarding for the Leafs to also go with these defenceman for the following reasons:

                          1. Rielly is without a doubt a top 10 defenceman in the NHL and especially from an offensive perspective.
                          2. Muzzen is without a doubt a top 10 shutdown defenceman in the NHL.
                          3. Holl is emerging as a shut down defenceman paired with Muzzen with some offensive upside.
                          4. Sandin has top pairing defenceman potential written all over him and he may be the next Nick Lidstrom or Borge Salming.
                          5. Lehtenon was top defenceman in Europe last year.
                          6. Dermott has massive upside and potential top pairing defenceman and just needs more responsibility.
                          7. Liljegren has tremendous potential as an offensive defenceman in the NHL and should have been top 5 draft pick in his year if was not sick during the season.


                          Sounds like the Leafs' should have no problems D-wise, yet they have huge problems.

                          1. Rielly is a 1D, but is definitely not a top-10 D in the league.
                          2. Muzzin is extremely good.
                          3. Holl is ok as a weak #4. He has looked good because playing with Muzzin makes most players look good. Despite playing on a Leafs' team that has been incredibly weak on the right side for years, a month shy of his 28th birth day he had topped 20 minutes in a game once in his career.
                          4. Sandin has high potential, but he will not come close to realizing it if the Leafs' can't get him an appropriate partner and they seem to have no interest in doing so.
                          5. Lehtonen is a lottery pick. Lots of players in situation don't pan out.
                          6. Dermott (along with Sandin and Lehtonen) has no long-term future with the team above the the third pairing unless they start playing on the right side - something the team - even today with their first camp practice - seems to have zero interest in pursuing.
                          7. Liljegren hopefully continues to build off this strong season on the Marlies because the Leafs' could desperately use someone on the right side. He didn't look good during his games with the Leafs. Part of that was that undoubtedly because playing Sandin and Liljegren together is a completely terrible idea. He would not have been a top-5 pick. Heiskanen, Makar and Pettersson were picked 3 - 5. And likely wouldn't move up in a re-draft. 29 players from his draft have played more games than him.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 20 h 57
                          #70
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                          Quoting: Jack_
                          Not everyone has been brainwashed into thinking seth Jones is that good


                          Dude... if you read a later comment I agreed and also said Jones wasn’t a top 10 RHD in the NHL.... I was more asking why he brought Jones up in that comment because I never said anything about him. Read dude.
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                          13 juill. 2020 à 20 h 59
                          #71
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                          Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
                          Are you his relative or something? I've seen him play in Ottawa and Toronto. He's a solid 3rd pairing D.

                          Nothing more. Nothing less.

                          Ceci got knocked out of his job by Holl and was playing on the 3rd pairing with Sandin at the end of the season.


                          Ceci has been a top-4 D for years and continues to be one. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean a thing. Coach after coach disagrees with you. You are not smarter than them and no NHL team would ever dream of hiring you for that type of job. Holl took over for Barrie on the pairing with Muzzin because Barrie was so terrible defensively that the team was actually needing to shelter a pairing with Muzzin on it. Ceci was never partnered with Muzzin. If your arguments were good you wouldn't need to lie.
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                          13 juill. 2020 à 21 h 34
                          #72
                          LongtimeLeafsufferer
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                          If the list compiled on competent NHL Dmen, they won't be for sale. Other teams need cheap ELCs also.
                          But lets stop this nonsense that a player that shoots right he must be better any of the Leafs Dmen. Left handed shots can play the right side.
                          I have rarely seen a trade post that doesn't weaken the Leafs at centre or at wing, just to get a another teams bottom end RHD
                          Leafs have made their bed with I think four competent NHL Dmen. Reilly, Muzzin, Holl and Dermot. I don't know why people say Dermot is a 3rd pairing guy (whatever that means) cause he plays 17 minutes a night without easy PP time. Certainly he hasn't been sheltered. Sandin looks like an NHLer. So to that Leafs the iffy Lehoten, Marincin, and Liljegren right now as the 6th and 7th. Not much different than most NHL teams, questions on the bottom end. Would I like another NHL competent Dman on the Leafs....yes, but there doesn't seem to be cap for one or rarely a logical trade suggestion.
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                          13 juill. 2020 à 21 h 36
                          #73
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                          Modifié 13 juill. 2020 à 21 h 41
                          Quoting: mhockey91
                          Like I said in my above comment, do it in the play-ins and let’s see how he does. There’s been talk about Dermott as this top 4 D for years but I haven’t seen anything yet


                          He played with the Russian rookies\ two years ago and Ceci last year. He was plus playing 17 minutes a game in both seasons Playing with Reilly will be easy for Dermot.

                          Barrie and Ceci won't be Leafs next year...so that should be an improvement on defence. Reilly and Muzzin both spent long stretches on LTIR.
                          Leafs GAA. wasn't that much different than 12 other teams. Heck, Nashville allowed 8 less goals than Leafs with their 3 alleged stars of Ellis, Josi and Eckland who will cost over 19.5m
                          13 juill. 2020 à 22 h 13
                          #74
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                          Modifié 13 juill. 2020 à 22 h 19
                          Quoting: keep_ups12
                          Peeke for sure. He was great for Columbus when they have a boat load of injuries. Whitecloud is good but most likely not otb.
                          Roy is probably not otb either. Peeke would be great though

                          This is exactly why we have zero interest in trading him for so low. He's going to be needed if/when Savard moves on.

                          * * *


                          Quoting: keep_ups12
                          So why the hell do you guys want to keep Savard so badly? And yes he is suppose to be the replacement. Oh and i didn't forget Jones is a top 10 d man right?

                          Quoting: keep_ups12
                          I brought up Jones because "he is a top 10 d man" who can carry the right side. Since he is that good you don't need Savard. You also have Nut (Who i don't if he could play on the right side). And no that is not trolling. And I was asking again "why do you sell so high on Savard". He isn't worth a 2c, which is a pretty high ask. And I was thinking since you have so many defense man you don't need Peeke but I guess not

                          The "many defensemen" we have are mostly LHDs. Jones/Savard/Peeke are the only three NHL-quality RHDs we have - Nutivaara and Kukan can both play RD, but they're both lefties. Also, there's something to the idea of having quality on every pairing.

                          * * *


                          Quoting: Ajp_18
                          Dude... if you read a later comment I agreed and also said Jones wasn’t a top 10 RHD in the NHL.... I was more asking why he brought Jones up in that comment because I never said anything about him. Read dude.

                          FYI, that's the guy who thinks Jones doesn't even qualify as top-4. Not "top-4 in the NHL", "top-4" as in "not good enough for the second pairing".
                          13 juill. 2020 à 22 h 44
                          #75
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                          Quoting: palhal
                          He played with the Russian rookies\ two years ago and Ceci last year. He was plus playing 17 minutes a game in both seasons Playing with Reilly will be easy for Dermot.

                          Barrie and Ceci won't be Leafs next year...so that should be an improvement on defence. Reilly and Muzzin both spent long stretches on LTIR.
                          Leafs GAA. wasn't that much different than 12 other teams. Heck, Nashville allowed 8 less goals than Leafs with their 3 alleged stars of Ellis, Josi and Eckland who will cost over 19.5m


                          Once again, losing Barrie is NOT a positive. The leafs will need to find a replacement.
                           
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