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Could Toronto Target A Cheap RHD

Créé par: AnalyticsGeek
Équipe: 2020-21 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 13 juill. 2020
Publié: 13 juill. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
It would be ideal for Toronto to add someone like DeMelo in free agency, but as of right now, I think Toronto’s defense corps is set for next season the way it currently is. However, I wonder if they could go after a young RHD prospect on ELC, perhaps they can work him up the lineup and have him turn into the next John Marino. If you know any players that could fit this scenario, please comment down below.
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    Alec Regula
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                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 3
                          #26
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                          Quoting: mhockey91
                          ive said this before and ill say it again...
                          entering the season with a d core of Rielly/Muzzin/Holl/Sandin/Lehtonen/Dermott/Liljegren is extremely risky and could end up resulting in the leafs missing the playoffs. Or they'll be forced to overpay for a guy midseason because teams will know they're desperate


                          I think you are right that it is extremely risky and the reason why Dubas is going to add one more experienced NHL defenceman as a UFA on the cheap. Although it is extremely risky I also think it is extremely rewarding for the Leafs to also go with these defenceman for the following reasons:

                          1. Rielly is without a doubt a top 10 defenceman in the NHL and especially from an offensive perspective.
                          2. Muzzen is without a doubt a top 10 shutdown defenceman in the NHL.
                          3. Holl is emerging as a shut down defenceman paired with Muzzen with some offensive upside.
                          4. Sandin has top pairing defenceman potential written all over him and he may be the next Nick Lidstrom or Borge Salming.
                          5. Lehtenon was top defenceman in Europe last year.
                          6. Dermott has massive upside and potential top pairing defenceman and just needs more responsibility.
                          7. Liljegren has tremendous potential as an offensive defenceman in the NHL and should have been top 5 draft pick in his year if was not sick during the season.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 3
                          #27
                          Meh
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                          Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
                          I've been saying if we can re-sign Ceci for less than 1.5M on a 1 year deal we should do it. He's a solid 3rd pairing guy.

                          Everyone else says Ceci is trash though.


                          Ceci is not great, but he is not trash. He is not a 3rd pairing D. He will not be signing for under 1.5M. Nor do I think that he has any desire to re-sign in a place like Toronto.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 4
                          #28
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                          Quoting: Gordon_Bombay
                          I think the Leafs D corps is kind of mess. And I could see the Leafs playing Sandin and Liljegren who are both a bit unproven, but are actually not bad players. So what I would do, is probably pair them as following to not pair rookies toghether.

                          Rielly Holl
                          Muzzin Liljegren
                          Sandin Dermott

                          If I would move one of these players it would probably be Dermott


                          Moving Dermott would be like trading Nylander after last season. It's not smart.

                          Quoting: mhockey91
                          ive said this before and ill say it again...
                          entering the season with a d core of Rielly/Muzzin/Holl/Sandin/Lehtonen/Dermott/Liljegren is extremely risky and could end up resulting in the leafs missing the playoffs. Or they'll be forced to overpay for a guy midseason because teams will know they're desperate


                          If they don't make the playoffs then they don't deserve it and we need to get more talent. I'd just let the team miss the playoffs next year because there are A LOT of good defensive prospects next year.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 5
                          #29
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                          Quoting: Sean4417
                          Johnsson will be ready for the 2nd round... wont be an ltir candidate


                          I would not play Robertson. OHL to NHL playoffs is a big step up.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 5
                          #30
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                          Quoting: mhockey91
                          ive said this before and ill say it again...
                          entering the season with a d core of Rielly/Muzzin/Holl/Sandin/Lehtonen/Dermott/Liljegren is extremely risky and could end up resulting in the leafs missing the playoffs. Or they'll be forced to overpay for a guy midseason because teams will know they're desperate


                          I think missing the playoffs is a stretch but they won't go far in it with that
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                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 6
                          #31
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                          Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
                          I've been saying if we can re-sign Ceci for less than 1.5M on a 1 year deal we should do it. He's a solid 3rd pairing guy.

                          Everyone else says Ceci is trash though.


                          You are 100% correct and think @palhal who is probably one of the most informed Leafs users on this CapFriendly site has also been saying during the last year.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 7
                          #32
                          The 1 True GM
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                          Quoting: Gordon_Bombay
                          what do you see as a realistic return for Dermott and Johnsson as a package?


                          The best way to estimate a future trade is to evaluate the past trades Dubas has made...Dermott Johnsson and a 3rd rd pick should get an RD comparable to Muzzin (eg. Manson)
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 8
                          #33
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                          Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
                          Moving Dermott would be like trading Nylander after last season. It's not smart.



                          If they don't make the playoffs then they don't deserve it and we need to get more talent. I'd just let the team miss the playoffs next year because there are A LOT of good defensive prospects next year.


                          I don't know.

                          Muzzin and Rielly are given on the left. Then I see Sandin as a better player long term.

                          It really depends how Dermott plays on the right side.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 11
                          #34
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                          Quoting: Ajp_18
                          I’m not sure we want to keep Savard. We just don’t have use for another middle 6 LW or AHL RW for him. Why bring up Jones? That just makes you seem like you’re trolling. I was just trying to say that Columbus would want to keep Peeke so he can replace Savard, not need to be a prick about it.


                          I brought up Jones because "he is a top 10 d man" who can carry the right side. Since he is that good you don't need Savard. You also have Nut (Who i don't if he could play on the right side). And no that is not trolling. And I was asking again "why do you sell so high on Savard". He isn't worth a 2c, which is a pretty high ask. And I was thinking since you have so many defense man you don't need Peeke but I guess not
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 14
                          #35
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                          Quoting: Gordon_Bombay
                          I don't know.

                          Muzzin and Rielly are given on the left. Then I see Sandin as a better player long term.

                          It really depends how Dermott plays on the right side.


                          Dermott has similar stats to Jokiharju except he plays the left side...

                          How come one is like a team jewel and the other is a throw in for trades?
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 14
                          #36
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                          Quoting: Seider53
                          Detroit keep their guy, he looked really safe this year, which we really need.


                          Quoting: BStinson
                          Why would Detroit sell a guy they drafted in the second round who they spent time developing for just 18 games and a late sixth round pick... We’ll keep our guy whom they decided to keep over Regula which you’re offering a second round pick.


                          Quoting: redwingsfan04
                          Not nearly enough for Gustav Lindstrom. He was a 2nd round pick just a couple of years ago and looked good in his NHL callup this year.


                          Honestly, I haven’t watched a lot of Lindstrom so I don’t know what he’s worth. I read a report ranking the Red Wings prospects & he was one of the last guys on the list, so I thought maybe he wasn’t that good. It just seems that he’s the least talented RD out of Seider, Hronek & Tuomisto, so I felt maybe he could be expendable.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 15
                          #37
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                          Quoting: Miles_Togo
                          Ceci is not great, but he is not trash. He is not a 3rd pairing D. He will not be signing for under 1.5M. Nor do I think that he has any desire to re-sign in a place like Toronto.


                          Well he definitely isnt a top 4 D man. Toronto has one of the weakest right sides in the league and he got pushed down the depth charts to the 3rd pairing.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 16
                          #38
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                          Quoting: Gordon_Bombay
                          what do you see as a realistic return for Dermott and Johnsson as a package?


                          Dermott isnt getting traded unless a 1st is coming back.

                          Johnsson gets traded for a 2nd or 3rd depending on what other teams interest in him is.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 17
                          #39
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                          Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
                          Dermott has similar stats to Jokiharju except he plays the left side...

                          How come one is like a team jewel and the other is a throw in for trades?


                          According to this site: https://public.tableau.com/profile/hbanalytics#!/vizhome/NHLPlayerCards2019-20/PlayerCards

                          Dermott actually has better stats than Jokiharju & his market value is about 4 Million higher. I just think he is not as attractive because he is left handed. But he’s very good.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 18
                          #40
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                          What a joke, So a 2nd round guy is only worth a 6th Yeah get real and Detroit declines.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 18
                          #41
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                          Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
                          According to this site: https://public.tableau.com/profile/hbanalytics#!/vizhome/NHLPlayerCards2019-20/PlayerCards

                          Dermott actually has better stats than Jokiharju & his market value is about 4 Million higher. I just think he is not as attractive because he is left handed. But he’s very good.


                          Trading him for anything less than a 1st would be terrible.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 19
                          #42
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                          Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
                          Honestly, I haven’t watched a lot of Lindstrom so I don’t know what he’s worth. I read a report ranking the Red Wings prospects & he was one of the last guys on the list, so I thought maybe he wasn’t that good. It just seems that he’s the least talented RD out of Seider, Hronek & Tuomisto, so I felt maybe he could be expendable.


                          He is the least talented out of those guys but worth a lot more than a 6th.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 19
                          #43
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                          Quoting: mhockey91
                          I think you're overpaying for most these guys (specifically roy), but yes, I think its entirely possible toronto takes a chance on a "Marino type" player. Its a gamble if it doesn't work out and they're left without a true top 4 D, but due to their cap circumstances its entirely possible they take that chance


                          I agree, there is risk to taking an unproven guy but I wouldn’t say there is a lot, since they likely won’t cost a ton & will really cheap. Maybe the Leafs will find their Marino in one of these guys, or maybe Dermott will evolve into that role next season. He certainly has really good underlying numbers, so who knows.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 21
                          #44
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                          Quoting: Ajp_18
                          Not a chance you can get Peeke. You’d be able to get Savard before Peeke. Peeke is the replacement for Savard when he walks as a UFA the following season. Not unless Liljegren is coming back for Peeke can Toronto get him.


                          I’m not sure how other Leaf fans feel but I would be willing to give up Liljegren for Peeke. I think Liljegren has the higher upside, but Peeke is probably the safer choice plus is more NHL ready.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 22
                          #45
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                          Quoting: Gordon_Bombay
                          what do you see as a realistic return for Dermott and Johnsson as a package?


                          I think you could probably send Johnsson + Dermott + 2nd for someone like Weegar. That’s what I’ve been hearing on this site.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 26
                          #46
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                          Quoting: TML_Tika
                          I think you are right that it is extremely risky and the reason why Dubas is going to add one more experienced NHL defenceman as a UFA on the cheap. Although it is extremely risky I also think it is extremely rewarding for the Leafs to also go with these defenceman for the following reasons:

                          1. Rielly is without a doubt a top 10 defenceman in the NHL and especially from an offensive perspective.
                          2. Muzzen is without a doubt a top 10 shutdown defenceman in the NHL.
                          3. Holl is emerging as a shut down defenceman paired with Muzzen with some offensive upside.
                          4. Sandin has top pairing defenceman potential written all over him and he may be the next Nick Lidstrom or Borge Salming.
                          5. Lehtenon was top defenceman in Europe last year.
                          6. Dermott has massive upside and potential top pairing defenceman and just needs more responsibility.
                          7. Liljegren has tremendous potential as an offensive defenceman in the NHL and should have been top 5 draft pick in his year if was not sick during the season.



                          This is an extremely homer comment.

                          1- Rielly is most definitely not a top 10 D man. I can easily think of 10 who are currently better
                          2- from a shutdown only perspective Muzzin isn’t top 10 either. He’s a very good two way defensemen but there are easily 10 D in the league better in their own zone than muzzin.
                          3- comparing sandin to two hall of famers is absolutely ridiculous. I think sandin has top pairing potential but to say he’s a future Lidstrom is just absurd.
                          4- lehtonen is a huge wild card. Great year in europe but still TBD how his game converts to North America
                          5- Dermott absolutely doesn’t have top pairing potential looool
                          6- no chance lilly should’ve went top 5 in his draft. Yes he fell cause he was sick but there are easily 10 better players I could name off the top of my head who are better from 2017
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                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 30
                          #47
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                          Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
                          Trading him for anything less than a 1st would be terrible.


                          Dermott is a bottom pairing D whose 23 and hasn’t even cracked the leafs top 4 Even with injuries. (Maybe a few games towards the end but that’s it) No team is trading a first for him. Get real.
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 35
                          #48
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                          hawks accept
                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 38
                          #49
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                          Quoting: mhockey91
                          Dermott is a bottom pairing D whose 23 and hasn’t even cracked the leafs top 4 Even with injuries. (Maybe a few games towards the end but that’s it) No team is trading a first for him. Get real.


                          Guess what... he was one of those injuries.

                          Leafs aren't moving Dermott unless it's for a 1st. If nobody gives a 1st we keep him. It's that simple.
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                          13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 38
                          #50
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                          Quoting: mhockey91
                          This is an extremely homer comment.

                          1- Rielly is most definitely not a top 10 D man. I can easily think of 10 who are currently better
                          2- from a shutdown only perspective Muzzin isn’t top 10 either. He’s a very good two way defensemen but there are easily 10 D in the league better in their own zone than muzzin.
                          3- comparing sandin to two hall of famers is absolutely ridiculous. I think sandin has top pairing potential but to say he’s a future Lidstrom is just absurd.
                          4- lehtonen is a huge wild card. Great year in europe but still TBD how his game converts to North America
                          5- Dermott absolutely doesn’t have top pairing potential looool
                          6- no chance lilly should’ve went top 5 in his draft. Yes he fell cause he was sick but there are easily 10 better players I could name off the top of my head who are better from 2017


                          also notice how many guys he said "potential" for. Nobody's denying the long term potential of this D core. Its actually quite a commendable long term D core. But short term Dermott, Sandin, and Lilly aren't ready to take on the roles that they should one day soon.

                          Right now, the D core could shock people. Sandin could step up big time, Dermott could definitely look top 4 ready, Holl could prove not to be a one year wonder, liljegren could be NHL ready, and Lehtonen could transition into the NHL seamlessly, and make for a high end D core. But thats a lot of pieces that have to fall into place. The leafs still need to bring in a solid, reliable, stable RHD to that core just in case. If all those guys step into bigger shoes this year, great, you're even better off. If not, you've got another reliable guy back there.

                          My targets would be Savard, Demelo, Roy, Weegar personally
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