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Playoff setup

Créé par: HatterTParty
Équipe: 2019-20 Blackhawks de Chicago
Date de création initiale: 13 juill. 2020
Publié: 13 juill. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Only big change I have in my lines is on defense. I honestly don’t care if seabrook is healthy. The only way I’d play him is if he proves beyond ANY doubt he can actually keep up with the playoff pace. Otherwise, let’s give koekkoek a chance. I’d say he’s earned it in so far as he’s done everything asked of him. The hawks are playing with house money this year considering they didn’t earn this playoff birth. Take a chance with him.

The top 4 D are pretty standard. The top 6 F are the best we got offensively. That first line should never be separated. The second line to me just runs on chemistry. Say what you will about their defensive liability, but there’s just no great alternative that I see with cat and strome. You take cat and strome away from Kane, they just don’t produce the same way. The third line is a bit of a dark horse for depth scoring hopefully. Caggs provides grit and nylander provides a shot for the line. They shouldn’t be a problem defensively either. The fourth line is pretty self explanatory, shut down straight up.
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13 juill. 2020 à 14 h 26
#1
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Modifié 13 juill. 2020 à 14 h 49
We simply can not expect to try to run a scoring race with the Oilers, they will bury us if we try this, which means, we play 3 balanced lines up front that can score and play defense and then a 4th line that plays defense. Cat - Strome - Kane got outscored almost 2 to 1 when they played together this season, against the top 6 of the Oilers, that will be surely be 2 to 1; that is the Oilers strength...we shouldn't try to beat them at their game, we should counter with our own.

Kubalik - Toews - Saad (defense and offense)
Nylander - Dach - Kane (defense and offense)
Cat - Strome - Caggs (defense and offense)
Highmore - Kampf - Carps (defense)....Smith is out btw

Playoff games especially are all about matchups and running the right lines against them, we can win. To put this another way, when you stack our lines to what you have in the top 6, our top 6 is not better then their top 6. When you create the 4 lines I showed above, our top 12 is better then their top 12. Running a footrace with their top 6 is a recipe for disaster, we must have a 2nd line that can play defense against their 2nd line. That 2nd line you have would be great against their 3rd and 4th lines, so maybe double shifting Kane is also an option.
Agree on the defense lineup....unfortunately I think JC will switch Murphy and Boqvist but I think this is a better option.
13 juill. 2020 à 14 h 32
#2
chitownfan92
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Kubalik - Toews - Nylander
Saad - Dach - Kane
Cat - Strome - Carpenter
Caggiula - Kampf - Highmore

Keith - Boqvist
De Haan - Murphy (I think you gotta switch Boqvist and Murphy to create a shutdown 2nd pairing)
Maatta - Seabrook/Koekkoek
13 juill. 2020 à 14 h 43
#3
exo2769
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For what its worth I agree with your Dpairs. Id rather keep Boqvist fresh to be the most effective player he can on the PP unit. 4K and Maatta were technically our best shutdown pair for the year.

I'd put Dach and Kane together though.
13 juill. 2020 à 14 h 48
#4
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Quoting: ChiHawk
We simply can not expect to try to run a scoring race with the Oilers, they will bury us if we try this, which means, we play 3 balanced lines up front that can score and play defense and then a 4th line that plays defense. Cat - Strome - Kane got outscored almost 2 to 1 when they played together this season, against the top 6 of the Oilers, that will be surely be 2 to 1; that is the Oilers strength...we shouldn't try to beat them at their game, we should counter with our own.

Kubalik - Toews - Saad (defense and offense)
Nylander - Dach - Kane (defense and offense)
Cat - Strome - Caggs (defense and offense)
Highmore - Kampf - Carps (defense)....Smith is out btw

Agree on the defense lineup....unfortunately I think JC will switch Murphy and Boqvist but I think this is a better option.


Being completely fair and objective, I don’t understand cat strome caggs. Where’s the defense? Caggs? If you genuinely think that’s the case, okay. However, by proxy, cat and strome won’t be anywhere near as effective without Kane as a conduit.
13 juill. 2020 à 14 h 51
#5
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Quoting: chitownfan92
Kubalik - Toews - Nylander
Saad - Dach - Kane
Cat - Strome - Carpenter
Caggiula - Kampf - Highmore

Keith - Boqvist
De Haan - Murphy (I think you gotta switch Boqvist and Murphy to create a shutdown 2nd pairing)
Maatta - Seabrook/Koekkoek


That top line has to be kuba toews Saad. That’s a non starter, it’s our best line. The second line, as a result, will be cat strome Kane for the offense and chemistry. Cat and strome don’t perform without Kane, especially strome. As for defense, boqvist playing with de haan gives him a great two way defenseman to watch his back while Murphy and Keith are the leadership combo that sets the pace for the team.
13 juill. 2020 à 14 h 54
#6
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Being completely fair and objective, I don’t understand cat strome caggs. Where’s the defense? Caggs? If you genuinely think that’s the case, okay. However, by proxy, cat and strome won’t be anywhere near as effective without Kane as a conduit.


Caggs plays defense for sure, he plays the dirty areas in general which Cat Strome and Kane shy away from. Additionally, that 3rd line in theory should not be facing the oilers top 6 and the bottom 6 of the oilers is not good, so that line won't have to play as much defense. Also, could see Nylander and Caggs get swapped because of this or alternative Kane getting doubleshifted except when the 3rd line is starting in our zone. Playoff games, even moreso then regular season, are about matchups; we aren't going to win a scoring race with the Oilers top 6. Could also move Caggs up to the 1st line and Saad down to the line with Dach and Kane. Again, not really worried about the Oilers bottom 6 scoring which is where we will need to win this matchup if we are going to win the series.
13 juill. 2020 à 15 h 1
#7
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Quoting: exo2769
For what its worth I agree with your Dpairs. Id rather keep Boqvist fresh to be the most effective player he can on the PP unit. 4K and Maatta were technically our best shutdown pair for the year.

I'd put Dach and Kane together though.


I’m pretty sure most hawks fans have come to a decent consensus over the defense his far. Offense is a completely different story though. Cat and strome are a defensive liability no matter what. Maybe Saad and kuba change that, but they’re first liners with toews and that shouldn’t change. As a result, I don’t think caggs and obviously nylander don’t change that liability. Dach with Kane shouldn’t happen now in my opinion. I get that everyone thinks so heavily of him so quickly, but I’m not even close to trusting him offensively. I trust him defensively so I’d rather him play third line minutes. Besides, if he plays with, say, Kane and nylander, that line will NEVER gain control of play off a faceoff. Not to mention, no disrespect to Kane and nylander, but neither play is any threat to a puck carrier.

The hawks are going to be at the mercy of McD and Drai. As ChiHawk said, we can’t play their style, only counter with ours. As I see it, the hawks gotta keep it simple and play north south simple hockey. Cat strome and Kane always do that. Dach still thinks god gave him hands to go through people, and let’s be honest, that will not happen in playoff hockey.
13 juill. 2020 à 15 h 10
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Quoting: ChiHawk
We simply can not expect to try to run a scoring race with the Oilers, they will bury us if we try this, which means, we play 3 balanced lines up front that can score and play defense and then a 4th line that plays defense. Cat - Strome - Kane got outscored almost 2 to 1 when they played together this season, against the top 6 of the Oilers, that will be surely be 2 to 1; that is the Oilers strength...we shouldn't try to beat them at their game, we should counter with our own.

Kubalik - Toews - Saad (defense and offense)
Nylander - Dach - Kane (defense and offense)
Cat - Strome - Caggs (defense and offense)
Highmore - Kampf - Carps (defense)....Smith is out btw

Playoff games especially are all about matchups and running the right lines against them, we can win. To put this another way, when you stack our lines to what you have in the top 6, our top 6 is not better then their top 6. When you create the 4 lines I showed above, our top 12 is better then their top 12. Running a footrace with their top 6 is a recipe for disaster, we must have a 2nd line that can play defense against their 2nd line. That 2nd line you have would be great against their 3rd and 4th lines, so maybe double shifting Kane is also an option.
Agree on the defense lineup....unfortunately I think JC will switch Murphy and Boqvist but I think this is a better option.


the balanced scoring is why I liked the Kubalik-Dach-Caggs line. If thats our third line and our first line of toews cat saad is just shutting down McDavid or Drai, that third line is gonna score quite a bit against theirs
13 juill. 2020 à 15 h 11
#9
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Caggs plays defense for sure, he plays the dirty areas in general which Cat Strome and Kane shy away from. Additionally, that 3rd line in theory should not be facing the oilers top 6 and the bottom 6 of the oilers is not good, so that line won't have to play as much defense. Also, could see Nylander and Caggs get swapped because of this or alternative Kane getting doubleshifted except when the 3rd line is starting in our zone. Playoff games, even moreso then regular season, are about matchups; we aren't going to win a scoring race with the Oilers top 6. Could also move Caggs up to the 1st line and Saad down to the line with Dach and Kane. Again, not really worried about the Oilers bottom 6 scoring which is where we will need to win this matchup if we are going to win the series.


Okay, so I’ll ask this question: if third liners don’t play against the top six, are we expecting cat strome caggs to light up the oilers bottom six? Let’s just assume Kane, nylander, Dach faces the top six the whole time. Yes, Kane can be double shifted, but Dach and nylander can’t won’t be that effective against McD and drai. Back to cat strome and caggs. I don’t question the offensive talent they possess (cat and strome that is). However, the fact still remains that strome and cat need a conduit to make them better. It’s an unpopular opinion, but cat and strome ARE NOT creators. They feed off the their line mate. Caggs isn’t gonna create anything.

I get that you and everyone else desperately wants the new era of Dach to rush ahead and unite with Kane, but he isn’t the answer yet. Until he becomes more direct and stops thinkIng he can feel everyone, he needs to be shielded. Especially in a series where Darnell Nurse will legit KILL him. This series is either gonna be a dog fight or an absolute blitzing by the oilers to me. There’s no single answer to the lines. The hawks are desperate to lean on experience, and that may be the only thing that’ll save us.
13 juill. 2020 à 15 h 15
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Quoting: SlickWilly
the balanced scoring is why I liked the Kubalik-Dach-Caggs line. If thats our third line and our first line of toews cat saad is just shutting down McDavid or Drai, that third line is gonna score quite a bit against theirs


The problem still remains that separating cat and strome effectively neutralizes both of them. Maybe cat to a lesser extent, but strome will be almost worthless. Also, I’m pretty sure at this point, kuba toews Saad as the first line is almost a guarantee.
13 juill. 2020 à 15 h 23
#11
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I agree with your D pairs, but offensivly some changed need to be made. Smith will not be playing because he is not healthy. which is fine, slot highmore in instead. That second line is terrible defensivly which is a huge problem especilly if they are gonna play the draisitle line. I would do:
Kubalik- Toews-Saad
Nylander/Caggs-Dach-Kane
Debrincat-Strome-Nylander/Caggs
Highmore-Kampf-Carpenter
ChiHawk et exo2769 a aimé ceci.
13 juill. 2020 à 15 h 25
#12
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Quoting: HatterTParty
The problem still remains that separating cat and strome effectively neutralizes both of them. Maybe cat to a lesser extent, but strome will be almost worthless. Also, I’m pretty sure at this point, kuba toews Saad as the first line is almost a guarantee.


The Nylander-Strome-Kane line was fairly productive towards the end of the year when we started winning again, so I would give it a go.
13 juill. 2020 à 15 h 26
#13
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Quoting: Wadejos123
I agree with your D pairs, but offensivly some changed need to be made. Smith will not be playing because he is not healthy. which is fine, slot highmore in instead. That second line is terrible defensivly which is a huge problem especilly if they are gonna play the draisitle line. I would do:
Kubalik- Toews-Saad
Nylander/Caggs-Dach-Kane
Debrincat-Strome-Nylander/Caggs
Highmore-Kampf-Carpenter


I know I sound like a broken record at this point. Cat and strome are a defensive liability no matter who they play with. Even if they play with caggs, that line will be lit up. The added downside to that line would be that cat and strome need a player to create for them, and caggs won’t do that.
13 juill. 2020 à 15 h 27
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Quoting: SlickWilly
The Nylander-Strome-Kane line was fairly productive towards the end of the year when we started winning again, so I would give it a go.


I don’t mind that one. I like that idea, and you’re right, they were getting a grove going towards the end of the season.
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13 juill. 2020 à 15 h 35
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Okay, so I’ll ask this question: if third liners don’t play against the top six, are we expecting cat strome caggs to light up the oilers bottom six? Let’s just assume Kane, nylander, Dach faces the top six the whole time. Yes, Kane can be double shifted, but Dach and nylander can’t won’t be that effective against McD and drai. Back to cat strome and caggs. I don’t question the offensive talent they possess (cat and strome that is). However, the fact still remains that strome and cat need a conduit to make them better. It’s an unpopular opinion, but cat and strome ARE NOT creators. They feed off the their line mate. Caggs isn’t gonna create anything.

I get that you and everyone else desperately wants the new era of Dach to rush ahead and unite with Kane, but he isn’t the answer yet. Until he becomes more direct and stops thinkIng he can feel everyone, he needs to be shielded. Especially in a series where Darnell Nurse will legit KILL him. This series is either gonna be a dog fight or an absolute blitzing by the oilers to me. There’s no single answer to the lines. The hawks are desperate to lean on experience, and that may be the only thing that’ll save us.


You generally start matchups by playing line number to line number. That said, there will be variations based on zone starts. So you say Nylander and Dach aren't going to be effective against the top 6 but you expect Strome (who's horribly slow) and Cat (who's terribly small) is going to be effective defensively against a very fast and big top 6 of the Oilers? They are going to get destroyed defensively and throwing Kane with them will be a blood bath. Don't get me wrong, if there is a Oilers 3rd or 4th line matchup in the ozone, then by all means throw those 3 on the ice together and they will dominate.

I also don't at all disagree on Cat and strome not being able to produce. The 2nd half of the season, they played almost entirely without Kane and started producing coming out of their earlier slump in the season when they were with Kane and Shaw mostly. In fact, multiple times Nylander and Caggs were playing with them when those two put up points. Again, if Cat and Strome are mainly playing against their 3rd and 4th lines, those two will indeed produce.

You've been underestimating Dach for a year now and continue to do so. He does not need to be shielded, he plays good defense, isn't afraid of the physical game, plays fast, and looks great in front of the net. What Kane needs in order to be successful is a guy in front of the net and Dach does that for his line. I agree on faceoffs it's a problem for sure. By the end of the stoppage of play, I would take Dach over Strome every day of the week....Dach has way more tools then Strome and can at least skate. The only area Strome is better is at the dot and strome has a shot but he's much slower, not physical, doesn't play defense, isn't great in front of the net, isn't as good of a passer, and IQ isn't as high. There is a reason last season it was rumored Kane talked to the front office and did not want to play with Strome.
13 juill. 2020 à 16 h 17
#16
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Quoting: ChiHawk
You generally start matchups by playing line number to line number. That said, there will be variations based on zone starts. So you say Nylander and Dach aren't going to be effective against the top 6 but you expect Strome (who's horribly slow) and Cat (who's terribly small) is going to be effective defensively against a very fast and big top 6 of the Oilers? They are going to get destroyed defensively and throwing Kane with them will be a blood bath. Don't get me wrong, if there is a Oilers 3rd or 4th line matchup in the ozone, then by all means throw those 3 on the ice together and they will dominate.

I also don't at all disagree on Cat and strome not being able to produce. The 2nd half of the season, they played almost entirely without Kane and started producing coming out of their earlier slump in the season when they were with Kane and Shaw mostly. In fact, multiple times Nylander and Caggs were playing with them when those two put up points. Again, if Cat and Strome are mainly playing against their 3rd and 4th lines, those two will indeed produce.

You've been underestimating Dach for a year now and continue to do so. He does not need to be shielded, he plays good defense, isn't afraid of the physical game, plays fast, and looks great in front of the net. What Kane needs in order to be successful is a guy in front of the net and Dach does that for his line. I agree on faceoffs it's a problem for sure. By the end of the stoppage of play, I would take Dach over Strome every day of the week....Dach has way more tools then Strome and can at least skate. The only area Strome is better is at the dot and strome has a shot but he's much slower, not physical, doesn't play defense, isn't great in front of the net, isn't as good of a passer, and IQ isn't as high. There is a reason last season it was rumored Kane talked to the front office and did not want to play with Strome.


I don’t mind a combination like strome Kane nylander. As slickwilly pointed out, that line picked up momentum late in the season. In that case, sure put cat and caggs with dach, I AM MORE THAN FINE WITH THAT.

The reason I underestimate, or as I see it, “see dach for Dach,” is because he is exactly what was expected, to an extent. Dach is big. He can take a hit, but can’t hit himself. He’s good defensive, one of the best in the class. Decent IQ and passing (honestly, the passing isn’t too top notch yet to me). Okay shot (not an NHL shot yet, sorry, but I do believe that). Judging by his form and WHL stat line, inconsistent scorer and not a world dominating offensive player. Then those hands. Mmmm, those hands, silky and sneaky. Most NHL ready.

All of that, minus my opinions in parentheses, are exactly what scouts said. It was expected.

Nothing about Dach is surprising to me. Nothing about him changes how I dislike players like him. That doesn’t change what he does good (hands, body, defense etc.) and what he struggles with (shot, offense, first step). Of course he’s got more tools than strome, cuz strome is modern NHLer playing a 15 years ago style. When we got strome, he was never gonna move the needle cuz he can’t skate and can’t play heavy playoff hockey. However, he still has experience, and proved he can blend with Kane. If Kane doesn’t wanna play with strome, lotty ****in dah. Kane should be pissed about everyone he’s played with for the last three years. Strome and Kane aside, Dach isn’t anything more or less than what I expected. I don’t underestimate him because he is exactly what they said he was and what I saw he was in juniors.

In any event, if we find out crow is out long term again, none of this even matters cuz he’s our lynchpin anyway.
13 juill. 2020 à 17 h 14
#17
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Quoting: HatterTParty
I don’t mind a combination like strome Kane nylander. As slickwilly pointed out, that line picked up momentum late in the season. In that case, sure put cat and caggs with dach, I AM MORE THAN FINE WITH THAT.

The reason I underestimate, or as I see it, “see dach for Dach,” is because he is exactly what was expected, to an extent. Dach is big. He can take a hit, but can’t hit himself. He’s good defensive, one of the best in the class. Decent IQ and passing (honestly, the passing isn’t too top notch yet to me). Okay shot (not an NHL shot yet, sorry, but I do believe that). Judging by his form and WHL stat line, inconsistent scorer and not a world dominating offensive player. Then those hands. Mmmm, those hands, silky and sneaky. Most NHL ready.

All of that, minus my opinions in parentheses, are exactly what scouts said. It was expected.

Nothing about Dach is surprising to me. Nothing about him changes how I dislike players like him. That doesn’t change what he does good (hands, body, defense etc.) and what he struggles with (shot, offense, first step). Of course he’s got more tools than strome, cuz strome is modern NHLer playing a 15 years ago style. When we got strome, he was never gonna move the needle cuz he can’t skate and can’t play heavy playoff hockey. However, he still has experience, and proved he can blend with Kane. If Kane doesn’t wanna play with strome, lotty ****in dah. Kane should be pissed about everyone he’s played with for the last three years. Strome and Kane aside, Dach isn’t anything more or less than what I expected. I don’t underestimate him because he is exactly what they said he was and what I saw he was in juniors.

In any event, if we find out crow is out long term again, none of this even matters cuz he’s our lynchpin anyway.


Strome Nylander and Kane even a worse defensive liability then Strome Cat and Kane...wow...it's going bad to worse. Nylander is worse then Cat defensively for sure. We are playing against one of the top 6 offensive forward lines in the league and they aren't small guys either. You simply can't put a 2nd forward line out there that plays zero defense.

Another option is to bump Kane to the top line and run a 2nd line of Cat - Strome - Saad, but then the 3rd line of Caggs - Dach - Nylander is not going to produce much.

Our best option is IMO is to keep Cat - Strome - Nylander on the 3rd line when they are facing the bottom 6 of the Oilers. Or just double shift Kane most of the game.
Dach's biggest praises per multiple scouting reports prior to the draft; strength to drive the net with defenders hanging off him, extremely coordinated with great wrists, great reach, incredible vision and passing ability, works well in tight around the net with very soft hands, Dach is a general on the ice. Has the ability to slow the game down. Great combination of size, strength, and puck skills. Soft hands, good puck persuit, quick stick.

Beyond those scouts comments pre-draft, additionally Dach has much better speed then what is advertised as many Chicago writers have noticed; certainly way better then Strome which isn't saying much. What amazes me, if you don't like Dach then you must really hate Strome Hatter. Dach is clearly more talented IMO despite both being #3 draft picks. With Dach we didn't give up anything, with Strome we obviously gave up Schmaltz. Sounds like Schmaltz is the type of center you like so am shocked you aren't enraged about that trade to the same degree as upset the Hawks didn't pick Turcotte or Byram.

Back to the discussion, there is no disagreement that Dach is the better defensive guy and he is big and has speed so much rather see him playing against the Oilers top 6 versus Strome. It really boils down to that fact. The only thing Strome is doing better is faceoffs and taking shots at the net, but I don't see Strome winning faceoffs against Ryan Nugent Hopkins or Leon Draisaitl on the 2nd line anyway.
13 juill. 2020 à 18 h 51
#18
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Strome Nylander and Kane even a worse defensive liability then Strome Cat and Kane...wow...it's going bad to worse. Nylander is worse then Cat defensively for sure. We are playing against one of the top 6 offensive forward lines in the league and they aren't small guys either. You simply can't put a 2nd forward line out there that plays zero defense.

Another option is to bump Kane to the top line and run a 2nd line of Cat - Strome - Saad, but then the 3rd line of Caggs - Dach - Nylander is not going to produce much.

Our best option is IMO is to keep Cat - Strome - Nylander on the 3rd line when they are facing the bottom 6 of the Oilers. Or just double shift Kane most of the game.
Dach's biggest praises per multiple scouting reports prior to the draft; strength to drive the net with defenders hanging off him, extremely coordinated with great wrists, great reach, incredible vision and passing ability, works well in tight around the net with very soft hands, Dach is a general on the ice. Has the ability to slow the game down. Great combination of size, strength, and puck skills. Soft hands, good puck persuit, quick stick.

Beyond those scouts comments pre-draft, additionally Dach has much better speed then what is advertised as many Chicago writers have noticed; certainly way better then Strome which isn't saying much. What amazes me, if you don't like Dach then you must really hate Strome Hatter. Dach is clearly more talented IMO despite both being #3 draft picks. With Dach we didn't give up anything, with Strome we obviously gave up Schmaltz. Sounds like Schmaltz is the type of center you like so am shocked you aren't enraged about that trade to the same degree as upset the Hawks didn't pick Turcotte or Byram.

Back to the discussion, there is no disagreement that Dach is the better defensive guy and he is big and has speed so much rather see him playing against the Oilers top 6 versus Strome. It really boils down to that fact. The only thing Strome is doing better is faceoffs and taking shots at the net, but I don't see Strome winning faceoffs against Ryan Nugent Hopkins or Leon Draisaitl on the 2nd line anyway.


Well, I’ll be honest, you have firmly convinced me there literally no easy answer to our line combinations. I have no damn idea what they’re gonna settle on and every line is gonna have some sort of glaring downside. I don’t have much faith in the team getting past the oilers (more so if crow ends up out). All I can hope is they find the right blend and chemistry. Again, we’re playing on house money considering we shouldn’t be in the playoffs anyway.

As for strome and Dach, in case I haven’t said it, you are spot on, I can’t stand either of them. I was very pissed when they traded for strome. I liked schmaltz a lot, fast, creative, and was one of the few good things about that 17-18 team. When they got strome though, I was ****ing furious cuz I felt like the hawks were being seduced by the “need” for size. Now granted, he worked well with cat and Kane last year, but anyone can see strome doesn’t effect play on his own. To your point, he’s slow, doesn’t pass very well, doesn’t use his size well at all, and really only shoots well at a higher volume. To me, he never felt like a player who was a long term piece. Only reason I never bring it up is cuz I only joined this site as a commenter in right after the 2019 draft. As you remember, something else had (and still has) my attention.

I’ll be honest though, part of me (a small part of course) would have been okay with taking Dach IF we still had schmaltz. Cuz up to this point, we don’t have a game changing center. Dach included. I can’t stand him or strome. Period. Strome is just one of those guys who seems to know where to be to get points while not exactly being exceptional in any area. Not that isn’t a talent, he just never creates anything himself. As for Dach, Dach is just as advertised, he is who he was in juniors, both good and bad. Nothing has changed that honestly. Plenty of people look at the intangibles of Dach to show he had a “great” rookie year and ignore the lack of points, but then look at nylander, look at the points and then ignore the intangibles to say he was a great rookie. But with dach, Dach gets the benefit of “he’s still young.”

I’m mortified by how much this team is seduced by the success of the blues. I don’t want us to make decisions based on the success of someone else. The problem with this team wasn’t that we weren’t big and strong the last three years, it’s that we didn’t continue to evolve with the speed of the game. This team is unbearably slow. Trading for strome and drafting Dach disgusted me because all I saw was us wishing we were the blues. As a life hawks fan, **** that, that’s pathetic.
13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 0
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Quoting: Wadejos123
I agree with your D pairs, but offensivly some changed need to be made. Smith will not be playing because he is not healthy. which is fine, slot highmore in instead. That second line is terrible defensivly which is a huge problem especilly if they are gonna play the draisitle line. I would do:
Kubalik- Toews-Saad
Nylander/Caggs-Dach-Kane
Debrincat-Strome-Nylander/Caggs
Highmore-Kampf-Carpenter


These would be my lines against EDM. Part 1 - Kuba/Toews/Saad would be preferred against the McDavid line. This has been one of our better lines during the season which means we're playing to our strength, but I'd go a step further and say we need this line to go up against the McDavid line. McDavid isn't very good at faceoffs and Toews is really good at them. I'm not suggesting the Toews line with score a ton, but they are definitely a threat to score and I think this possession line with frustrate McDavid...at least more than any other line could. Part 2 - Highmore/Kampf/Carpy go against the Draisaitl line. Kampf is the only other guy that can win a draw and this is our 2nd shutdown line. Am I worried...yeah a little, but I'd also try to get Maatta/4k out there at this time too. This will allow for Part 3 - Spread out the offense between the two other lines. Cat/Stome/Cags and Nylander/Dach/Kane. Agreed these lines don't play a ton of D. Not every single line does, but we're a dual threat with 2.5 scoring lines. .5 being the Toews line vs McDavid line. I truly believe this plays CHI's strengths. Strome's NOT on wing. He's on the same line as Cat. Dach's a powerful center. He'll get sheltered minutes simply because he'll be in the Ozone or neutral zone most of the time. He can win board battles and he's good net front presence. Hawks have nothing to lose right now. Let the kids be who they are. They to their strengths and just let them develop. Keep it simple.
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13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 2
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Quoting: HatterTParty
I can’t stand either of them. I was very pissed when they traded for strome. I liked schmaltz a lot, fast, creative, and was one of the few good things about that 17-18 team.


Funny how things work out. Hawks NEEDED a #2C. Schmaltz is a winger. They did the trade. I'm ok with it. But now they have a ton of centers and need a speedy winger...just funny how life works some times. AND it's not like we all didn't agree that AT the #3 spot...you draft best available. We can have a debate on who was best available, but I do think we all agree you can't draft by position in that spot.
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13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 16
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Quoting: exo2769
Funny how things work out. Hawks NEEDED a #2C. Schmaltz is a winger. They did the trade. I'm ok with it. But now they have a ton of centers and need a speedy winger...just funny how life works some times. AND it's not like we all didn't agree that AT the #3 spot...you draft best available. We can have a debate on who was best available, but I do think we all agree you can't draft by position in that spot.


Yea, you’re spot on. Things work out so strange sometimes. Remember how sure we were like two months ago that us getting #9 probably meant lundell? Well, we have too many centers, does that mean we take Quinn?
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13 juill. 2020 à 23 h 0
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Well, I’ll be honest, you have firmly convinced me there literally no easy answer to our line combinations. I have no damn idea what they’re gonna settle on and every line is gonna have some sort of glaring downside. I don’t have much faith in the team getting past the oilers (more so if crow ends up out). All I can hope is they find the right blend and chemistry. Again, we’re playing on house money considering we shouldn’t be in the playoffs anyway.

As for strome and Dach, in case I haven’t said it, you are spot on, I can’t stand either of them. I was very pissed when they traded for strome. I liked schmaltz a lot, fast, creative, and was one of the few good things about that 17-18 team. When they got strome though, I was ****ing furious cuz I felt like the hawks were being seduced by the “need” for size. Now granted, he worked well with cat and Kane last year, but anyone can see strome doesn’t effect play on his own. To your point, he’s slow, doesn’t pass very well, doesn’t use his size well at all, and really only shoots well at a higher volume. To me, he never felt like a player who was a long term piece. Only reason I never bring it up is cuz I only joined this site as a commenter in right after the 2019 draft. As you remember, something else had (and still has) my attention.

I’ll be honest though, part of me (a small part of course) would have been okay with taking Dach IF we still had schmaltz. Cuz up to this point, we don’t have a game changing center. Dach included. I can’t stand him or strome. Period. Strome is just one of those guys who seems to know where to be to get points while not exactly being exceptional in any area. Not that isn’t a talent, he just never creates anything himself. As for Dach, Dach is just as advertised, he is who he was in juniors, both good and bad. Nothing has changed that honestly. Plenty of people look at the intangibles of Dach to show he had a “great” rookie year and ignore the lack of points, but then look at nylander, look at the points and then ignore the intangibles to say he was a great rookie. But with dach, Dach gets the benefit of “he’s still young.”

I’m mortified by how much this team is seduced by the success of the blues. I don’t want us to make decisions based on the success of someone else. The problem with this team wasn’t that we weren’t big and strong the last three years, it’s that we didn’t continue to evolve with the speed of the game. This team is unbearably slow. Trading for strome and drafting Dach disgusted me because all I saw was us wishing we were the blues. As a life hawks fan, **** that, that’s pathetic.


Nylander is not in his rookie season. He's 22 years old...3 years older then Dach who is still a teenager. I think Nylander has a lot of talent, but clearly Dach has more. I'm willing to bet, Dach becomes the top or 2nd best player in the 2019 draft...he's really that good. He's the most exciting piece to watch next season IMO. I like what Dach brings. A combination of Dach and Lundell at center could be a very solid 1/2 punch. They are both size and not as much speed but neither is slow like Strome. It's a different style of hockey no doubt, not the fast style that's fun to watch like Toronto but that's fine, Toronto hasn't done **** despite being one of the fastest teams. Also, the Hawks in their last 3 cups at times were not considered a fast team. In 2009/2010 they playing tough band up hockey.
13 juill. 2020 à 23 h 4
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Quoting: HatterTParty
Yea, you’re spot on. Things work out so strange sometimes. Remember how sure we were like two months ago that us getting #9 probably meant lundell? Well, we have too many centers, does that mean we take Quinn?


No, I think we take Sanderson, Lundell or Quinn....according to reports, that's who the Hawks are spending the most time scouting. They will take BPA at that point and who knows how the Hawks have them ranked. All 3 are positions of need. Lundell means Strome's days are numbered....a season maybe two at most and Strome gets traded.
13 juill. 2020 à 23 h 44
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Nylander is not in his rookie season. He's 22 years old...3 years older then Dach who is still a teenager. I think Nylander has a lot of talent, but clearly Dach has more. I'm willing to bet, Dach becomes the top or 2nd best player in the 2019 draft...he's really that good. He's the most exciting piece to watch next season IMO. I like what Dach brings. A combination of Dach and Lundell at center could be a very solid 1/2 punch. They are both size and not as much speed but neither is slow like Strome. It's a different style of hockey no doubt, not the fast style that's fun to watch like Toronto but that's fine, Toronto hasn't done **** despite being one of the fastest teams. Also, the Hawks in their last 3 cups at times were not considered a fast team. In 2009/2010 they playing tough band up hockey.


That’s definitely we can agree on. I don’t see nylander as a rookie, but I’m pretty stan bowman (profile, not thee bowman) always contests he is.

Dach has been fine. I’m not questioning that. I know how much you like him. As for the best or 2nd best in the class, that’s definitely a few years from even being speculated on. Nothing he’s done this year has come off surprising. That’s fine, but it just means him being better than Hughes or kakko THIS YEAR really doesn’t mean much. I still think there’s plenty who will be better than dach though. That’s not a hit against him, it’s just a combo of him being exactly as advertised this year and still not being clear to what his ceiling is yet. There’s plenty of other prospects who were way more consistent than dach in juniors and college. Once they reach the NHL, they could be even better than dach was. But hey, it’s Just speculation, just like Mitchell being better than boqvist without any NHL experience.

Also, I’ve warmed up to lundell a bit. I love Finnish and Swedish players and lundell could be a great u set the radar pick this year. He has no flash and really he doesn’t electrify, but in spite of that I very much respect players who play a simple game. Lundell plays a great, direct style. Good defensively, and not too bad offensively. My only question mark with him has been his ceiling.

As for Toronto, their problem isn’t their speed, it’s their defense. It’s a freakin joke. They don’t have enough puck movers and or even a playing style that supplements their team speed. The hawks cup teams all centered around possession hockey. They had the skill for it and defense that could supplement their run and gun offense. However, as a part of that run and gun, they had PACE. They had team speed. 2010’s team was a good physical team, yes. But they still had amazing team speed for their time and the physical play wasn’t the focus. Toronto’s problem is that they don’t a good d core that can help build a possession game centered around their team speed and skill.
13 juill. 2020 à 23 h 57
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Quoting: HatterTParty
That’s definitely we can agree on. I don’t see nylander as a rookie, but I’m pretty stan bowman (profile, not thee bowman) always contests he is.

Dach has been fine. I’m not questioning that. I know how much you like him. As for the best or 2nd best in the class, that’s definitely a few years from even being speculated on. Nothing he’s done this year has come off surprising. That’s fine, but it just means him being better than Hughes or kakko THIS YEAR really doesn’t mean much. I still think there’s plenty who will be better than dach though. That’s not a hit against him, it’s just a combo of him being exactly as advertised this year and still not being clear to what his ceiling is yet. There’s plenty of other prospects who were way more consistent than dach in juniors and college. Once they reach the NHL, they could be even better than dach was. But hey, it’s Just speculation, just like Mitchell being better than boqvist without any NHL experience.

Also, I’ve warmed up to lundell a bit. I love Finnish and Swedish players and lundell could be a great u set the radar pick this year. He has no flash and really he doesn’t electrify, but in spite of that I very much respect players who play a simple game. Lundell plays a great, direct style. Good defensively, and not too bad offensively. My only question mark with him has been his ceiling.

As for Toronto, their problem isn’t their speed, it’s their defense. It’s a freakin joke. They don’t have enough puck movers and or even a playing style that supplements their team speed. The hawks cup teams all centered around possession hockey. They had the skill for it and defense that could supplement their run and gun offense. However, as a part of that run and gun, they had PACE. They had team speed. 2010’s team was a good physical team, yes. But they still had amazing team speed for their time and the physical play wasn’t the focus. Toronto’s problem is that they don’t a good d core that can help build a possession game centered around their team speed and skill.


I'm going off of what Scott Powers also said about Dach, he could easily end up being the best or 2nd best in the draft class. Never said Mitchell was going to be better then Boqvist, don't think that's true but he will be damn good 2nd liner.

Lundell is a weaker but very similar player to Dach, Dach is simply better in every department and has much better hands and IQ. Both are big two way defensive minded players but Dach has more offense. Shocked you like Lundell and dislike dach.

Um Toronto has plenty of puck movers and speed on their defense, they just don't have players that play actual defense. 2009/2010 Cup team was not considered fast, it was physical and a possession game, but not one of the fastest teams in the league.
 
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