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Cirelli Sergachev Lizotte and Clifford

Créé par: OldNYIfan
Équipe: 2020-21 Kings de Los Angeles
Date de création initiale: 10 juill. 2020
Publié: 13 juill. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Working on the most recent variation of this theme suggested by Paul13.

Issue 1: RFA's

At the end of next season, LA would have to find the money for raises to Iafallo, Moore, Clague and Roy. This is not the problem it might appear at first glance (with only $2.7 million in cap space here) because the $6.25 million charge for Kovalchuk will come off the books, and the cost of Dion Phaneuf's buyout will come down by $3 million.

Issue 2: Expansion Draft:

Protected: Cirelli, Frk, Grundstrom, Iafallo, Kempe, Kopitar, Moore (?); Doughty, Sergachev, Walker; Petersen.

Exposed: Brown, Carter, Luff, Wagner; Clague, Roy; Quick.

The loss of one (or even two) of the forwards can be borne, but losing either defenseman would be unpleasant. Perhaps some deal involving Carter (if he's still on the roster) plus one of the forwards?
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
46 250 000 $
55 600 000 $
53 000 000 $
2900 000 $
2900 000 $
2850 000 $
2850 000 $
2800 000 $
Transactions
1.
LAK
  1. Cirelli, Anthony [Droits de RFA]
  2. Sergachev, Mikhail [Droits de RFA]
TBL
  1. Björnfot, Tobias
  2. Vilardi, Gabriel
  3. Choix de 2e ronde en 2020 (VGK)
  4. Choix de 2e ronde en 2021 (STL)
2.
LAK
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2021 (TOR)
  2. Choix de 4e ronde en 2022 (TOR)
Détails additionnels:
Acquiring Lizotte allows the Maple Leafs to move Johnsson or Kerfoot without significant loss of effectiveness
TOR
  1. Lizotte, Blake
  2. Choix de 3e ronde en 2021 (TOR)
Détails additionnels:
Lizotte would probably have to be exposed in the expansion draft, and returning the 2021 third allows Toronto to resign Kyle Clifford without cost
Rachats de contrats
Frais de résiliation
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2020
Logo de LAK
Logo de LAK
Logo de VAN
Logo de LAK
Logo de CBJ
Logo de LAK
Logo de CGY
Logo de LAK
Logo de LAK
Logo de LAK
2021
Logo de LAK
Logo de LAK
Logo de TOR
Logo de LAK
Logo de LAK
Logo de CGY
Logo de LAK
Logo de LAK
Logo de LAK
2022
Logo de LAK
Logo de LAK
Logo de LAK
Logo de LAK
Logo de TOR
Logo de LAK
Logo de LAK
Logo de LAK
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2381 500 000 $73 266 363 $0 $1 140 000 $8 233 637 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
2 425 000 $2 425 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
10 000 000 $10 000 000 $
C
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
5 875 000 $5 875 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
6 250 000 $6 250 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 3
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
725 000 $725 000 $
AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
775 000 $775 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
747 500 $747 500 $ (Bonis de performance182 500 $$182K)
C, AG, AD
RFA - 2
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
2 636 364 $2 636 364 $
AD, C
UFA - 2
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
700 000 $700 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
900 000 $900 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 3
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
900 000 $900 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
850 000 $850 000 $
AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
850 000 $850 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
5 600 000 $5 600 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 3
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
11 000 000 $11 000 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
2 900 000 $2 900 000 $
G
UFA - 3
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
DG
UFA - 2
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
3 000 000 $3 000 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 4
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
858 333 $858 333 $
G
UFA - 2
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
761 666 $761 666 $ (Bonis de performance107 500 $$108K)
DG/DD
RFA - 1
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
700 000 $700 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
875 000 $875 000 $
DG/DD, AG
UFA - 2

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13 juill. 2020 à 8 h 58
#1
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Pretty Sure Tampa Declines
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13 juill. 2020 à 9 h 24
#2
V5 ANA and BOG
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Would the Kings take Kerfoot back?
13 juill. 2020 à 9 h 25
#3
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Tampa laughs and hangs up
13 juill. 2020 à 11 h 23
#4
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I'm not necessarily a fan of moving Bjornfot/Vilardi because I'm on board with the rebuilding idea and I like what I've seen from them. That being said, I see the thought process for Sergachev and Cirelli. Unlike someone above says, I don't think Tampa laughs. They might look for better options, but I think it's something they'd consider based off of the leverage any team has dealing with them due to their cap issues. This gives Tampa two cost controlled high-level assets and gets them out of their cap crunch for at least another 2 years.

As far as expansion, I'd argue that at this moment in time Roy is more important than any one of Frk, Grundstrom or Moore. So I'd argue going the 4x4 route: Kopitar, Iafallo, Kempe, Cirelli and Doughty, Sergachev, Walker and Roy. Having Sergachev makes Clague expendable, especially with Anderson and Hults still in the fold.
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13 juill. 2020 à 11 h 35
#5
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I understand that valuation is low on the trade with Tampa but, Tampa has zero negotiating power this offseason.

Johnson, Palat, etc have very little value this off-season. With a flat cap, you would have to sell futures to move Johnson or Gourde. Killorn will not have the value that others give on this site. Even then you will be fighting every other team to dump salaries to Ottawa, NJ, and Detroit.
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13 juill. 2020 à 15 h 37
#6
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
I'm not necessarily a fan of moving Bjornfot/Vilardi because I'm on board with the rebuilding idea and I like what I've seen from them. That being said, I see the thought process for Sergachev and Cirelli. Unlike someone above says, I don't think Tampa laughs. They might look for better options, but I think it's something they'd consider based off of the leverage any team has dealing with them due to their cap issues. This gives Tampa two cost controlled high-level assets and gets them out of their cap crunch for at least another 2 years.

As far as expansion, I'd argue that at this moment in time Roy is more important than any one of Frk, Grundstrom or Moore. So I'd argue going the 4x4 route: Kopitar, Iafallo, Kempe, Cirelli and Doughty, Sergachev, Walker and Roy. Having Sergachev makes Clague expendable, especially with Anderson and Hults still in the fold.


I'm sorry I haven't noticed a fellow Kings fan before. Thank you for the reaction and the opinion.

The main purpose of this construction wasn't really the Tampa transaction so much as to get the opinions of our colleagues @tkecanuck341 and @Bf3351 and Toronto colleagues @palhal and @Jamiepo and @LeafsFanForSomeReason and others to the Lizotte trade.
13 juill. 2020 à 16 h 13
#7
Banni
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
I'm sorry I haven't noticed a fellow Kings fan before. Thank you for the reaction and the opinion.

The main purpose of this construction wasn't really the Tampa transaction so much as to get the opinions of our colleagues @tkecanuck341 and @Bf3351 and Toronto colleagues @palhal and @Jamiepo and @LeafsFanForSomeReason and others to the Lizotte trade.


I think that Vilardi has a higher ceiling than Cirelli. Obviously Sergachev has a higher ceiling than Bjornfot, but I can see Bjornfot being one of the best at shutting down top forwards some day. I love the idea of having Sergachev on the Kings, but not at the cost of Vilardi and Bjornfot.

The Kings are rumored to be trading up to the late 1st round this draft and I proposed sending that 1st along with Kupari for Sergachev, maybe some spare parts of needed.

As always I love the different ideas you come up with and appreciate your knowledge. That being said, I wouldn't be too mad if this happened. I just think we are better off keeping Vilardi and Bjornfot and hopefully find a different way of acquiring Sergachev.
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13 juill. 2020 à 16 h 16
#8
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
I'm sorry I haven't noticed a fellow Kings fan before. Thank you for the reaction and the opinion.

The main purpose of this construction wasn't really the Tampa transaction so much as to get the opinions of our colleagues @tkecanuck341 and @Bf3351 and Toronto colleagues @palhal and @Jamiepo and @LeafsFanForSomeReason and others to the Lizotte trade.


I'm not sure I understand the Lizotte trade. You're essentially satisfying the condition of the Clifford trade in upgrading from the 3rd to the 2nd, which "allows Toronto to resign Kyle Clifford without cost." So presuming that Toronto intends to re-sign Clifford, the Kings would have received that pick anyway. So you're essentially giving Lizotte away for a 2022 fourth round pick? I think the Kings could do a lot better than that.
13 juill. 2020 à 16 h 21
#9
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
I'm not sure I understand the Lizotte trade. You're essentially satisfying the condition of the Clifford trade in upgrading from the 3rd to the 2nd, which "allows Toronto to resign Kyle Clifford without cost." So presuming that Toronto intends to re-sign Clifford, the Kings would have received that pick anyway. So you're essentially giving Lizotte away for a 2022 fourth round pick? I think the Kings could do a lot better than that.


Not really. I just don’t see the leafs re signing Clifford. So kings upgrade from 3rd to 2nd and get a 4th. I like the idea @OldNYIfan. Leafs get the option to move kerfoot. This also opens up the opportunity to move Johnsson and re sign Clifford. Although with the depth we have of bottom 6 lw... I still don’t think it’s necessary. I like it though.
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13 juill. 2020 à 16 h 26
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The Leafs deal is... interesting. A little confusing to wrap the head around, but unless I'm mistaking the implications of the pick swap, LA doesn't seem to be getting great value here. As @tkecanuck341 said, it seems to basically equate to Lizotte for a 4th, assuming the Leafs are planning to re-sign Clifford (whether or not they actually are, I have no idea).
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13 juill. 2020 à 16 h 30
#11
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
I'm not sure I understand the Lizotte trade. You're essentially satisfying the condition of the Clifford trade in upgrading from the 3rd to the 2nd, which "allows Toronto to resign Kyle Clifford without cost." So presuming that Toronto intends to re-sign Clifford, the Kings would have received that pick anyway. So you're essentially giving Lizotte away for a 2022 fourth round pick? I think the Kings could do a lot better than that.


I don't think that we can count on their re-signing Clifford. This way, we make it easier for them to do so, both financially and draft-wise. Now they can trade Johnsson (moving Kerfoot over to LW) or Kerfoot or both (Barabanov-Lizotte-Kapanen).

Without the trade, we have a third which exerts some negative influence on whether they re-up Cliffie and Lizotte, for whom presumably we must still make some expansion draft arrangement/decision. With the trade, we have a second and fourth and a landing spot for Lizotte. Remember, you're the one who keeps saying we're going to lose him to Seattle. Jeez.
13 juill. 2020 à 16 h 30
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
I'm sorry I haven't noticed a fellow Kings fan before. Thank you for the reaction and the opinion.

The main purpose of this construction wasn't really the Tampa transaction so much as to get the opinions of our colleagues @tkecanuck341 and @Bf3351 and Toronto colleagues @palhal and @Jamiepo and @LeafsFanForSomeReason and others to the Lizotte trade.


No worries. I tend to do most of my interacting with you and tkecanuck on LAKI under a different username (speaking of which, I haven't seen you post there in a bit). I peruse this daily but generally keep to lurking instead of posting too much.

Interesting that your main portion of this was the Lizotte trade, because that Tampa one is what I would consider a blockbuster in today's NHL.
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13 juill. 2020 à 16 h 34
#13
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
The Leafs deal is... interesting. A little confusing to wrap the head around, but unless I'm mistaking the implications of the pick swap, LA doesn't seem to be getting great value here. As @tkecanuck341 said, it seems to basically equate to Lizotte for a 4th, assuming the Leafs are planning to re-sign Clifford (whether or not they actually are, I have no idea).


Assume that they're on the fence about re-signing Clifford. As tke is constantly nagging me, we're likely to lose Lizotte in the expansion draft, so this basically makes the Clifford decision for Dubas while getting a sure positive return for Clifford and Lizotte. And it facilitates moving some cap for Toronto.
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13 juill. 2020 à 16 h 45
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Assume that they're on the fence about re-signing Clifford. As tke is constantly nagging me, we're likely to lose Lizotte in the expansion draft, so this basically makes the Clifford decision for Dubas while getting a sure positive return for Clifford and Lizotte. And it facilitates moving some cap for Toronto.


Yeah, I have no issue with it from the Toronto side.

That's an interesting perspective that you have on it from the LA side. So you look at it as the guarantee of the 3rd to 2nd upgrade (rather than rolling the dice on the Leafs decision), and a 4th, in exchange for Lizotte. That's creative... I like it!
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13 juill. 2020 à 17 h 26
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
I don't think that we can count on their re-signing Clifford. This way, we make it easier for them to do so, both financially and draft-wise. Now they can trade Johnsson (moving Kerfoot over to LW) or Kerfoot or both (Barabanov-Lizotte-Kapanen).

Without the trade, we have a third which exerts some negative influence on whether they re-up Cliffie and Lizotte, for whom presumably we must still make some expansion draft arrangement/decision. With the trade, we have a second and fourth and a landing spot for Lizotte. Remember, you're the one who keeps saying we're going to lose him to Seattle. Jeez.


I do think that as it stands, the Kings are likely to lose Lizotte to Seattle. There's still a lot of hockey to play between now and then, so things can change, but absent some big acquisition or standout play from someone unexpected, Lizotte seems to be the likely casualty. I also think that rather than lose him for nothing, the Kings should consider trading him, as he carries too much value to simply lose him in the expansion draft.

That being said, I don't think the Kings should give him away for less than fair value. On his own, I would expect an unmitigated 2nd round pick or prospect equivalent in return. A single-round upgrade and a 4th isn't enough to get it done.

Additionally, I don't want to give Toronto any incentive to re-sign Clifford. My ideal outcome this summer is for them to choose to forego his extension and to see Clifford back in a Kings jersey this Fall. Trade Lizotte elsewhere for a 2nd round pick and keep the 3rd from the Leafs. If the Leafs do decide to re-sign Clifford, then the Kings now have two extra 2nd round picks. If they don't, then they have a 2nd and 3rd, plus Clifford back in the locker room.
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13 juill. 2020 à 17 h 45
#16
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
I do think that as it stands, the Kings are likely to lose Lizotte to Seattle. There's still a lot of hockey to play between now and then, so things can change, but absent some big acquisition or standout play from someone unexpected, Lizotte seems to be the likely casualty. I also think that rather than lose him for nothing, the Kings should consider trading him, as he carries too much value to simply lose him in the expansion draft.

That being said, I don't think the Kings should give him away for less than fair value. On his own, I would expect an unmitigated 2nd round pick or prospect equivalent in return. A single-round upgrade and a 4th isn't enough to get it done.

Additionally, I don't want to give Toronto any incentive to re-sign Clifford. My ideal outcome this summer is for them to choose to forego his extension and to see Clifford back in a Kings jersey this Fall. Trade Lizotte elsewhere for a 2nd round pick and keep the 3rd from the Leafs. If the Leafs do decide to re-sign Clifford, then the Kings now have two extra 2nd round picks. If they don't, then they have a 2nd and 3rd, plus Clifford back in the locker room.


I can't argue with that strategy.
13 juill. 2020 à 17 h 59
#17
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
I'm sorry I haven't noticed a fellow Kings fan before. Thank you for the reaction and the opinion.

The main purpose of this construction wasn't really the Tampa transaction so much as to get the opinions of our colleagues @tkecanuck341 and @Bf3351 and Toronto colleagues @palhal and @Jamiepo and @LeafsFanForSomeReason and others to the Lizotte trade.


Tampa might can more in a separate transaction trades, but Tampa is desperate to receive no cap back, so a deal like the one proposed might be about the best they get
Think the Kings can be better in the Lizotte trade that was posted. I don't want to trade Kerfoot but if necessary Johnsson and Kerfoot might have to go for Lizotte and about a third....
13 juill. 2020 à 18 h 28
#18
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
I can't argue with that strategy.


If you really want to move forward with Lizotte to Toronto, then an alternative idea would be to drop the extra picks and just make it the 2021 2nd for Lizotte, straight up. This gives the desired result of allowing Clifford to re-sign without penalty. Then the Kings can say they got a 2nd for Lizotte, even though it turns out to be only a 3rd if Clifford re-signs. Toronto ends up with Clifford and Lizotte, LA ends up with a 2nd and a 3rd in 2021.

Still not my ideal outcome, as it decreases the chances that Clifford will be in LA next season, but it offers closer to fair value in exchange for Lizotte.
13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 28
#19
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Quoting: tkecanuck341
If you really want to move forward with Lizotte to Toronto, then an alternative idea would be to drop the extra picks and just make it the 2021 2nd for Lizotte, straight up. This gives the desired result of allowing Clifford to re-sign without penalty. Then the Kings can say they got a 2nd for Lizotte, even though it turns out to be only a 3rd if Clifford re-signs. Toronto ends up with Clifford and Lizotte, LA ends up with a 2nd and a 3rd in 2021.

Still not my ideal outcome, as it decreases the chances that Clifford will be in LA next season, but it offers closer to fair value in exchange for Lizotte.


I just think that you're optimistic in hoping that Lizotte is worth a second.
13 juill. 2020 à 19 h 54
#20
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
I just think that you're optimistic in hoping that Lizotte is worth a second.


After the season he just had, I have no doubt that he's worth a 2nd right now, especially considering his six-figure cap hit and the confirmed flat cap for several seasons. I think his services will be in high demand.

However, if he has a sophomore slump, that might change. It would be a risk by the Kings to hold onto him until the trade deadline, but one that might pay off. If he improves on his play from this season, then the Kings might be inclined to use a protection slot on him, especially if Wagner, Grundstrom, and Frk all have disappointing seasons. In that situation, a Lizotte trade would no longer be necessary.
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