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If Robertson is not ready

Créé par: SammyT_51
Équipe: 2020-21 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 9 juill. 2020
Publié: 9 juill. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
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RFAANSCAP HIT
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2020 or 2021 2nd round pick from any team that wants a mid-6 speedy and feisty scorer on very good contract.
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9 juill. 2020 à 16 h 34
#1
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He won't be ready but I doubt that's an issue
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9 juill. 2020 à 16 h 37
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If? What you mean if?
Hes not ready, need to be realistic and acknowledge that hes a really small guy not ready to cut it in the NHL yet.

Minimum 1 more year then look at him again.
9 juill. 2020 à 16 h 40
#3
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that rd won't get past the first round.
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9 juill. 2020 à 16 h 40
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Quoting: Trickster
If? What you mean if?
Hes not ready, need to be realistic and acknowledge that hes a really small guy not ready to cut it in the NHL yet.

Minimum 1 more year then look at him again.


DeBrincat situation all over again. I think he is close to ready but would need to prove himself and battle out that place in the lineup in training camp come november.

Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
He won't be ready but I doubt that's an issue


Its not an issue. If he is ready, thats great, if not another year never hurt nobody.
9 juill. 2020 à 16 h 41
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
that rd won't get past the first round.


Lets see!
9 juill. 2020 à 16 h 46
#6
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Quoting: SammyT_51
DeBrincat situation all over again. I think he is close to ready but would need to prove himself and battle out that place in the lineup in training camp come november.



Its not an issue. If he is ready, thats great, if not another year never hurt nobody.


Good example but I think DeBrincat is the exception and not the norm.
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9 juill. 2020 à 16 h 48
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A guy like Robertson is a great argument in favor of removing restrictions around sending CHL prospects to the AHL. he's clearly not going to benefit from another season in the O, but he'd also benefit from another year of development before the NHL.
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9 juill. 2020 à 16 h 48
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Quoting: SammyT_51
DeBrincat situation all over again. I think he is close to ready but would need to prove himself and battle out that place in the lineup in training camp come november.



Its not an issue. If he is ready, thats great, if not another year never hurt nobody.


Cat's a good example, I respect that. However Cat was half a year older in terms of his draft year (so more developed) and had 127 points, Robertson paced for 117 points in the same amount of games.
9 juill. 2020 à 16 h 49
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Quoting: Trickster
Good example but I think DeBrincat is the exception and not the norm.


Definitely not the norm, but there can be more exceptions than one. Robertson was as dominant as DeCat. We will see come training camp.
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9 juill. 2020 à 17 h 22
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Another advantage of not using Robertson yet is the entry level slide effect.
9 juill. 2020 à 17 h 35
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
that rd won't get past the first round.


yeah, agreed. if leafs dont add a legit top 4 RHD to play with Rielly, I doubt they make the playoffs
9 juill. 2020 à 18 h 18
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Quoting: mhockey91
yeah, agreed. if leafs dont add a legit top 4 RHD to play with Rielly, I doubt they make the playoffs


Genuinely curious why you think that when they made the playoffs with Hainsey and Zaitsev as their top 2 RHD.

As a Pens fan, I would've figured you know from experience that you can still do damage in the playoffs with imperfections. The Pens won the Cup on an arguably worse D-core than this (depending on if Lehtonen pans out and Dermott can continue his solid play in a higher lineup spot.
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9 juill. 2020 à 18 h 39
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Genuinely curious why you think that when they made the playoffs with Hainsey and Zaitsev as their top 2 RHD.

As a Pens fan, I would've figured you know from experience that you can still do damage in the playoffs with imperfections. The Pens won the Cup on an arguably worse D-core than this (depending on if Lehtonen pans out and Dermott can continue his solid play in a higher lineup spot.


an arguably worse D core?

2016 the pens had a stacked D core lead by Kris Letang who had a Norris Caliber season.
In 2017, our D core was missing Letang which was a huge blow, but the emergence of Schultz as a powerplay QB and offensive puck moving D made up for it.
We still iced a D core of:

Dumo-Hainsey (who was still good then)
Cole-Schultz (top 10 in Norris votes that season)
Maatta-Daley

thats a much deeper top 6 than the leafs who really only have Muzzin Rielly and kinda holl as bonafide top 4 D men. Pens had 6 guys who were worthy of a top 4 spot

leafs need to add one more top 4 D before the season starts. its a gamble betting that Lehtonen and Dermott are top 4's by playoffs
9 juill. 2020 à 19 h 27
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Quoting: mhockey91
an arguably worse D core?

2016 the pens had a stacked D core lead by Kris Letang who had a Norris Caliber season.
In 2017, our D core was missing Letang which was a huge blow, but the emergence of Schultz as a powerplay QB and offensive puck moving D made up for it.
We still iced a D core of:

Dumo-Hainsey (who was still good then)
Cole-Schultz (top 10 in Norris votes that season)
Maatta-Daley

thats a much deeper top 6 than the leafs who really only have Muzzin Rielly and kinda holl as bonafide top 4 D men. Pens had 6 guys who were worthy of a top 4 spot

leafs need to add one more top 4 D before the season starts. its a gamble betting that Lehtonen and Dermott are top 4's by playoffs


I am, of course, talking about the 2017 Cup. And, I know this will come across as condescending, but I don't mean it to - You should really go back and take a 2nd look at that D-core and their performance beyond the pure results. I think you're severely overrating it. Hainsey was just as bad then as he was with the Leafs. That left side, though some of them (notably Dumolin and Cole) have gone on to have some great seasons since, was absolutely atrocious that season/playoffs. One guy there (Schultz) was a solid top 4 D throughout.
9 juill. 2020 à 19 h 58
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
I am, of course, talking about the 2017 Cup. And, I know this will come across as condescending, but I don't mean it to - You should really go back and take a 2nd look at that D-core and their performance beyond the pure results. I think you're severely overrating it. Hainsey was just as bad then as he was with the Leafs. That left side, though some of them (notably Dumolin and Cole) have gone on to have some great seasons since, was absolutely atrocious that season/playoffs. One guy there (Schultz) was a solid top 4 D throughout.


One of the worst comments ive read on here. Wow. Dumo by then was a top pairing LHD, He literally inked a 6 year $24,600,000 contract after that playoff series. Hainsey was extremely solid night in through night out. He was miles better on Pittsburgh than Toronto. He was logging over 22 mins a night on that cap run. Schultz was top 10 in Norris votes that season. Cole in the 2016/17 had the best year of his career. He had a career high in Points, Plus/Minus, Blocks, and Hits. Daley/Maatta was extremely solid on the 3rd pairing as well. You are severly underestimating this d-core. If it was as bad as you say it was, we would have lost in the first round like what the leafs do every season. How can you seriously sit here and tell me that a Stanley Cup D-core that also led us to 111 points in the regular season was "atrocious" Maybe you should stick to your own team as you clearly know nothing about the Penguins.
9 juill. 2020 à 20 h 5
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
I am, of course, talking about the 2017 Cup. And, I know this will come across as condescending, but I don't mean it to - You should really go back and take a 2nd look at that D-core and their performance beyond the pure results. I think you're severely overrating it. Hainsey was just as bad then as he was with the Leafs. That left side, though some of them (notably Dumolin and Cole) have gone on to have some great seasons since, was absolutely atrocious that season/playoffs. One guy there (Schultz) was a solid top 4 D throughout.


if there is any d-core you could compare the 2020 leafs to, it would be the 2016 Pittsburgh Penguins. We entered that season with just two guys that were solidified top 4 guys (Letang and Maatta). Cole and Lovejoy at the time were viewed as bottom pairing D's. Most pens fans were expecting Pouliot to take the jump and be that top 4 D that the pens so desperately needed but it wasn't him, it was Dumolin. After swapping Scuderi for Daley, and adding Schultz, we iced a d-core of:

Dumo-Letang
Maatta-Daley
Cole-Lovejoy
(schultz)

to win the Stanley cup. (then Daley got injured against Tampa and Schultz slid up)

To start the season (like the leafs) the D-core looked very thin on paper. By the time it came playoffs, with every player improving (specifically Dumo) their game and the additions of Daley and Schultz, we had a Stanley Cup calibre D.
9 juill. 2020 à 21 h 45
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Modifié 9 juill. 2020 à 22 h 27
Quoting: mhockey91
One of the worst comments ive read on here. Wow. Dumo by then was a top pairing LHD, He literally inked a 6 year $24,600,000 contract after that playoff series. Hainsey was extremely solid night in through night out. He was miles better on Pittsburgh than Toronto. He was logging over 22 mins a night on that cap run. Schultz was top 10 in Norris votes that season. Cole in the 2016/17 had the best year of his career. He had a career high in Points, Plus/Minus, Blocks, and Hits. Daley/Maatta was extremely solid on the 3rd pairing as well. You are severly underestimating this d-core. If it was as bad as you say it was, we would have lost in the first round like what the leafs do every season. How can you seriously sit here and tell me that a Stanley Cup D-core that also led us to 111 points in the regular season was "atrocious" Maybe you should stick to your own team as you clearly know nothing about the Penguins.


I was looking forward to having an interesting, civil discussion/debate about this... Guess you can't always get what you want.

I was wondering myself if maybe I was being a bit too quick to jump to conclusions here. Upon further 'investigation', I think I was a little bit harsh with my evaluation. But really not much. And just to be clear - I'm talking purely about their playoff performances. (I made a mistake in my last comment that was misleading.)

Dumoulin and Hainsey, though they got out shot/attempted to holy hell, did quite a good job of limiting high danger shots against.

After that, though, it's a steep drop-off.

Schultz still put up the points - credit to him; you need Dmen that can do that. But (points aside) he, along with the rest of the D-core, put up very poor results across the board. Shots, attempts, expected goals, scoring chance%, high danger chance% (not as bad as the others but still below average), etc. They simply did not perform well in the playoffs - there's nothing wrong with that - they still won the f***ing Cup.

As for your 'If it was as bad as you say it was, we would have lost in the first round'... The Penguins had a .929 Sv% throughout the playoffs; that can carry you far. And it's obvious that the D-core was the beneficiary of that and not the other way around (except perhaps Hainsey and Dumoulin) - the Dmen were riding PDO benders. The whole point of my original comment was that a team does not have to be perfect to have success, especially in the playoffs, which this team/D-core made abundantly clear.
10 juill. 2020 à 3 h 45
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
that rd won't get past the first round.


pens won a cup with dumoulin and hainsey as the top pair

stars win cups
10 juill. 2020 à 6 h 50
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Quoting: Halla
pens won a cup with dumoulin and hainsey as the top pair

stars win cups


sure but toronto doesn't have a crosby and malkin.
 
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