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Whose better Jack eichel or Auston Matthews

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6 juill. 2020 à 12 h 53
#51
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Matthews
6 juill. 2020 à 12 h 54
#52
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Eichel just barely tho -pens/avs fan
6 juill. 2020 à 12 h 59
#53
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Neither of them play significantly shorthanded,and pretending short handed ice time is an indicator of over all defensive abilities is pretty funny considering that it's mostly systems based and very very very few players like matthews or eichel play the pk.
But since you asked, eichel played an average of 32 seconds to matthews 2. Excited to see how that matters in regards to the over all point


I think the main point is that ...if Matthews is a great defensive player than he would play PK(77.7% seems to be pretty bad to average)....I think some stats are misleading or not worth mentioning. saying Matthews is a better defensive player might be true but how much is that him actually being really good defensively...or does he excel at one thing really well and have great possession numbers

Matthews is a meter and Eichel is a yard...
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 1
#54
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Quoting: Bf3351
You would lean towards the guy getting paid 11.6M+ for 5 years over a guy getting paid 10M for 7 more years? Lol


has nothing to do with their contract status or salary, Eichel is on a better contract no question. purely going off of their skillset's and overall impact on the game I have Matthews slightly ahead.
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 3
#55
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
I think the main point is that ...if Matthews is a great defensive player than he would play PK(77.7% seems to be pretty bad to average)....I think some stats are misleading or not worth mentioning. saying Matthews is a better defensive player might be true but how much is that him actually being really good defensibly?

Matthews is a meter and Eichel is a yard...


Except that it isnt. PK defence is significantly different than 5v5 defence. That is why teams often have guys who specialize in it, especially when their top guys are already playing 20ish mins a night and getting power play time. Why would you run your offensive star out on the pk when you can have someone less valuable blocking shots?
At even strength, where 80% + of the game is played, matthews is significantly better than eichel
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 6
#56
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
that's 8x more but im not also out here glorifying Matthews defensive game.. his defensive game has greatly improved but id hardly give him the Selke. I wouldn't wouldn't put him on the ice in the last minute up by a goal. both are talented young players. the gap between them is minimal. Matthews has more talent surrounding him but hard to diminish his accomplishments bc of it. Eichel has way less talent around him but people tend to use that a s a crutch as to why hes having less success. Crosby had Recchi and john leclair. Ovechkin played with Dainius Zubrus Jeff Halpern. Generational talent makes the surrounding players better....


nor am i giving him the selke, nor even putting him in the conversation right now, but there are lots of good defensive players that dont get nominated, just because youre not the best doesnt mean you cant be good or getting better,

exactly my point throughout this whole thing, mcadvid plays with scrubs, crsoby won a cup with sheary and dom simon as his wingers, chris kunitz is who he is because of sid, matthews played with kap and johnsson last year, arent bad players but there are better he could have been playing with, he still did ok, tavares played with scrubs in new york, still managed to do ok for himself, people love to use this argument for eichel and also for taylor hall but its pretty bs if you ask me,
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6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 7
#57
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1. matthews

2. not an acgm
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 12
#58
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Matthews is better
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 13
#59
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popcorn
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6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 13
#60
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Except that it isnt. PK defence is significantly different than 5v5 defence. That is why teams often have guys who specialize in it, especially when their top guys are already playing 20ish mins a night and getting power play time. Why would you run your offensive star out on the pk when you can have someone less valuable blocking shots?
At even strength, where 80% + of the game is played, matthews is significantly better than eichel


so again with a terrible pk % of 77.7% why not use your best "defensive" players to improve that number. Star players don't block ****s? Ovechkin even blocks shots and hes a generational talent.... and 5v5 defense is easier or more scheme based. im not saying Matthews isn't better at defense by why mention it? its not like Matthews is a selke type defensive center?
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 16
#61
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Yes, completely rational to think that people here would never be biased against a team they clearly hate, silly me

Now, you seem at least semi rational so ill let you look up triggered and why using it in a silly meaningless hockey debate is a really dickheaded and ignorant thing to do, but lets just say it's not some harmless term you should be throwing around because the mean man disagreed.


You really don’t have to look that hard into it. Relax bud.
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 16
#62
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
so again with a terrible pk % of 77.7% why not use your best "defensive" players to improve that number. Star players don't block ****s? Ovechkin even blocks shots and hes a generational talent.... and 5v5 defense is easier or more scheme based. im not saying Matthews isn't better at defense by why mention it? its not like Matthews is a selke type defensive center?


matthews is 9th in blocked shots amongst centers
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 24
#63
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Quoting: vr1995
nor am i giving him the selke, nor even putting him in the conversation right now, but there are lots of good defensive players that dont get nominated, just because youre not the best doesnt mean you cant be good or getting better,

exactly my point throughout this whole thing, mcadvid plays with scrubs, crsoby won a cup with sheary and dom simon as his wingers, chris kunitz is who he is because of sid, matthews played with kap and johnsson last year, arent bad players but there are better he could have been playing with, he still did ok, tavares played with scrubs in new york, still managed to do ok for himself, people love to use this argument for eichel and also for taylor hall but its pretty bs if you ask me,


oh I completely agree with you. ovechkin had Dainius Zubrus Jeff Halpern on a line with him his rookie year and put up 100 and 50 goals. I think its unfortunate that Buffalo constantly cant figure out how to put together a good team but im not going to diminish Matthews bc he has better linemates. imo they benefit each other Matthews doesn't carry them and they don't carry him its a mutually beneficial relationship
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 25
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Quoting: Smithcd995
You really don’t have to look that hard into it. Relax bud.


Yeah, maybe you should look harder into it, bud
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 26
#65
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Quoting: vr1995
matthews is 9th in blocked shots amongst centers


I wasn't saying he didn't block shots. I was responding to the guy saying "Why would you run your offensive star out on the pk when you can have someone less valuable blocking shots?"
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 29
#66
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
oh I completely agree with you. ovechkin had Dainius Zubrus Jeff Halpern on a line with him his rookie year and put up 100 and 50 goals. I think its unfortunate that Buffalo constantly cant figure out how to put together a good team but im not going to diminish Matthews bc he has better linemates. imo they benefit each other Matthews doesn't carry them and they don't carry him its a mutually beneficial relationship


yeah i just think its a lame copout, everyone acts like eichel is lebron with the 2018 cavs
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6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 29
#67
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Quoting: ON3M4N
popcorn


its people arguing that a meter is way longer than a yard....
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6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 29
#68
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
I wasn't saying he didn't block shots. I was responding to the guy saying "Why would you run your offensive star out on the pk when you can have someone less valuable blocking shots?"


no i know i was just pointing out that he does in fact block shots lol
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 30
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
so again with a terrible pk % of 77.7% why not use your best "defensive" players to improve that number. Star players don't block ****s? Ovechkin even blocks shots and hes a generational talent.... and 5v5 defense is easier or more scheme based. im not saying Matthews isn't better at defense by why mention it? its not like Matthews is a selke type defensive center?


Cripes. Well, for one, eichel and matthews dont play on the same team so you wouldnt be using one over the other on the pk.
Two, to be better than eichel at defense doesnt mean matthews is better than everyone on his own team, so i really don't know what point youre trying to make since no one said anything about matthews being the best defensive player on the leafs.
And three, oveckin plays even less pk time than matthews, so again, what is your point?
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 31
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
I wasn't saying he didn't block shots. I was responding to the guy saying "Why would you run your offensive star out on the pk when you can have someone less valuable blocking shots?"


because if you can limit the time a player is put into blocking shots the more you do it? Like, the leafs lost both their top defense men to shot blocking injuries, why on earth would they want matthews blocking shots if they can help it?
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 32
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Quoting: vr1995
yeah i just think its a lame copout, everyone acts like eichel is lebron with the 2018 cavs


even then LeBron was the best player and put up elite numbers. it makes me laugh though bc even if Matthews has way better players around him whats he suppose to do... like refuse to play with them. like "throw me out with spezza and Clifford. I don't want people thinking i need help scoring"
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 43
#72
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Yeah, maybe you should look harder into it, bud


Or maybe you're looking way wayyyyyyyyyyyy too hard into it. Like WAAAYYYY too hard.
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 43
#73
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Cripes. Well, for one, eichel and matthews dont play on the same team so you wouldnt be using one over the other on the pk.
Two, to be better than eichel at defense doesnt mean matthews is better than everyone on his own team, so i really don't know what point youre trying to make since no one said anything about matthews being the best defensive player on the leafs.
And three, oveckin plays even less pk time than matthews, so again, what is your point?


1) when did I say or imply they were on the same team.... just an obviously dumb thing to make a point about.
2) to be better at defense than Eichel isn't hard. but when you focus and bring up being better defensively you should at least be a very good at defense or be at least known for your defensive game. Matthews defensive game has improved but its not something I would say he excels at....or that he is exactly know for....
3) I bring up the PK bc Toronto is …. not good at the PK so someone with good to great defensive ability … like Matthews should be able to improve it. that would be obvious unless the coach doesn't trust him in that type of situation.. obviously I dnt know the exact reason why he doesn't play it and no real need to speculate.
4) you suggested that superstars shouldn't block shots "Why would you run your offensive star out on the pk when you can have someone less valuable blocking shots?" that's why I brought up Ovechkin... hes terrible on defense and he even blocks shots....hes not terrible anymore just less bad
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 45
#74
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
because if you can limit the time a player is put into blocking shots the more you do it? Like, the leafs lost both their top defense men to shot blocking injuries, why on earth would they want matthews blocking shots if they can help it?


"matthews is 9th in blocked shots amongst centers" so seems like that shouldn't be an excuse ,right?
6 juill. 2020 à 13 h 51
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
1) when did I say or imply they were on the same team.... just an obviously dumb thing to make a point about.
2) to be better at defense than Eichel isn't hard. but when you focus and bring up being better defensively you should at least be a very good at defense or be at least known for your defensive game. Matthews defensive game has improved but its not something I would say he excels at....or that he is exactly know for....
3) I bring up the PK bc Toronto is …. not good at the PK so someone with good to great defensive ability … like Matthews should be able to improve it. that would be obvious unless the coach doesn't trust him in that type of situation.. obviously I dnt know the exact reason why he doesn't play it and no real need to speculate.
4) you suggested that superstars shouldn't block shots "Why would you run your offensive star out on the pk when you can have someone less valuable blocking shots?" that's why I brought up Ovechkin... hes terrible on defense and he even blocks shots....hes not terrible anymore just less bad


1-you literally used pk time to compare them like one getting more meant the other was being played less because of it
2- except that the point was that hes better than eichel. So he's better than eichel defensively, like by a good bit.
3- what does that have to do with Matthews being better defensively than eichel? Which is literally the only point. Again.
4-i suggested superstars shouldn't be forced into situations where they need to block shots if you have better options because them breaking a hand blocking a low percentage shot from the point limits their abilities to do the actual things that make them super stars. Limiting exposure to it is a good things, you see.
 
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