Forums/Armchair-GM

Acquiring some prospects and weaponising capspace

Créé par: Richard88
Date de création initiale: jun 19, 2020
Publié: 19 jun à 7 h 57
Équipe: 2020-21 Avalanche du Colorado
Explications
Avs can afford to keep Smith and Komarov as healthy scratches (and still have $1.1m in capspace, but if needed both can be stashed in the minors to save another $500k.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
Carlsson, Gabriel2800 000 $
Burakovsky, André44 850 000 $
Graves, Ryan32 750 000 $
Nichushkin, Valeri32 250 000 $
O'Connor, Logan1925 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
Namestnikov, Vladislav33 750 000 $
Transactions
COL
  1. Samberg, Dylan
Détails additionnels:
Or Chisholm, depending on how much Jets fans value Jost.

Avs would be getting a solid LHD prospect that can replace Cole in 2021, or Graves if/when he eventually gets traded a year or two from now.
WPG
  1. Jost, Tyson [Droits de RFA]
Détails additionnels:
Winnipeg get a cost-effective 3C who is good defensively and still has offensive upside to potentially break out as a 2C. He could be a great fit on a line with the wingers Winnipeg has on their 2nd line.
COL
  1. Carlsson, Gabriel [Droits de RFA]
Détails additionnels:
Avs get a reasonably young guy who can be a defensively solid 7D.
CBJ
  1. Kamenev, Vladislav [Droits de RFA]
Détails additionnels:
Kamenev needs a new opportunity and may yet break out as a 3C.

Note that Fenton who is now with CBJ drafted Kamenev at Nashville, and CBJ love 6'0''+ centers.
COL
  1. Rasmussen, Michael
DET
  1. Zadorov, Nikita [Droits de RFA]
COL
  1. Komarov, Leo
  2. Wilde, Bode
NYI
  1. 2020 3e round pick (TOR)
COL
  1. Andersson, Lias
  2. Smith, Brendan (2 000 000 $ retained)
Détails additionnels:
Burying Smith in the minors would carry a caphit of $3.275m for NYR.

NYR thus save $1.275m in capspace by trading Smith with $2m retention.

To make it worthwhile for Colorado to take on that cap NYR add Lias Anderson, and receive a 3rd back.
NYR
  1. 2021 3e round pick (COL)
Enfoui
  • Leo Komarov: 1 925 000 $ (3 000 000 $)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2020
COL
COL
COL
FLA
COL
2021
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
2022
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
COL
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $79 693 095 $0 $5 425 000 $1 806 905 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
COL
Landeskog, Gabriel
5 571 429 $
AG
NTC
UFA - 1
COL
MacKinnon, Nathan
6 300 000 $
C, AD
NTC
UFA - 3
COL
Rantanen, Mikko
9 250 000 $
AD
UFA - 5
COL
Burakovsky, André
4 850 000 $
AG, AD
RFA
COL
Kadri, Nazem
4 500 000 $
C
NTC
UFA - 2
COL
Donskoi, Joonas
3 900 000 $
AD
UFA - 3
COL
Nichushkin, Valeri
2 250 000 $
AG, AD
RFA
COL
Compher, J.T.
3 500 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 3
COL
Namestnikov, Vladislav
3 750 000 $
AD, AG, C
UFA
COL
Calvert, Matt
2 850 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
COL
Bellemare, Pierre-Édouard
1 800 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 1
COL
Kaut, Martin
863 333 $
AD
RFA - 3
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
COL
Graves, Ryan
2 750 000 $
DG
RFA
COL
Makar, Cale
880 833 $
DD
RFA - 1
COL
Grubauer, Philipp
3 333 333 $
G
UFA - 1
COL
Girard, Samuel
5 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 7
COL
Johnson, Erik
6 000 000 $
DD
NMC NTC
UFA - 3
COL
Francouz, Pavel
2 000 000 $
G
UFA - 2
COL
Byram, Bowen
894 167 $
DG
RFA - 3
COL
Cole, Ian
4 250 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
COL
O'Connor, Logan
925 000 $
AD
RFA - 2
COL
Bowers, Shane
925 000 $
C
RFA - 2
NYR
Smith, Brendan
2 350 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 1
NYR
Andersson, Lias
894 166 $
C, AG
RFA - 1
DET
Rasmussen, Michael
894 166 $
AG, C, AD
RFA - 1
COL
Timmins, Conor
925 000 $
DD
RFA - 1
NYI
Wilde, Bode
764 167 $
DD
RFA - 3
WPG
Samberg, Dylan
925 000 $
DG
RFA - 3
Carlsson, Gabriel
800 000 $
DG
RFA
COL
Annunen, Justus
880 833 $
G
RFA - 3

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19 jun à 8 h 03
#1
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 4,601
Mentions "j'aime": 1,404
Roster for 2021/22:

- Donskoi selected by Seattle in ED.
- Graves traded for futures.

Landeskog ---- Mackinnon ---- Rantanen
Burakovsky ------- Kadri --------- Kaut
Nichuskin ------- Newhook ----- Compher
Bowers --------- Andersson ---- Namestnikov (Rasmussen marinades in the AHL one more year in 2021/22 and then replaces Kadri in 2022 as Newhook bumps up to 2C).
O'Connor

Byram ------ Makar
Girard ------- Johnson
Samberg --- Timmins
Carlson 7D (Wilde slow-cooks in the AHL until Johnson is done).

Grubauer
Francouz
19 jun à 8 h 06
#2
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 16,993
Mentions "j'aime": 5,126
And how do you propose to fill out the roster the next year? Makar needs a deal and you currently have 23 million with only 14 players on the roster. Makar will take up at least 6+ million of that. That's 17 million for a lot of players you'll need.
19 jun à 8 h 12
#3
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 1,742
Mentions "j'aime": 506
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
And how do you propose to fill out the roster the next year? Makar needs a deal and you currently have 23 million with only 14 players on the roster. Makar will take up at least 6+ million of that. That's 17 million for a lot of players you'll need.


it's actually not that difficult. $11m to cover landeskog and makar raises. $2m raise for a starter. rest of the roster can be elcs. -$3m for whoever seattle selects.
Richard88 a aimé ceci.
19 jun à 8 h 17
#4
Go Jets Go
Rejoint: mar 2018
Messages: 2,330
Mentions "j'aime": 999
Sorry man but Samberg AND Chisholm are valued very high by the Jets (as they should be). Samberg could even crack a top 4 role as early as next year. I don't think there is even a remote chance they move either for Jost.
Dan10900 a aimé ceci.
19 jun à 8 h 18
#5
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 16,993
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
it's actually not that difficult. $11m to cover landeskog and makar raises. $2m raise for a starter. rest of the roster can be elcs. -$3m for whoever seattle selects.


You think Landeskog is going to settle for less than 6 million? Makar less than that as well? If Makar wants term it's going to be Rantanen money, if he doesn't it's going to be 6+ average. Landeskog is likely going to ask for 8 as a starting point and may not budge from that. He'll argue he's the captain and is a 30 goal scorer who has other intangibles.
LumberJacques a aimé ceci.
19 jun à 8 h 24
#6
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 4,601
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
And how do you propose to fill out the roster the next year? Makar needs a deal and you currently have 23 million with only 14 players on the roster. Makar will take up at least 6+ million of that. That's 17 million for a lot of players you'll need.

That would be no problem whatsoever.

Makar needs an $8m raise to $9m.
Landeskog to $8m, a raise of $2.5m.
Grubauer to $5m, a raise of $1.7m.

Total of the raises above = $13.2m

- Current capspace: $1.7m
- Cole $4.25m ---> replaced by Samberg ELC. Saves $3.5m.
- Smith $2.35m --> replaced by Carlsson $800k. Saves $1.5m.
- Calvert $2.85m --> replaced by Bowers ELC. Saves $2m.
- Bellemare $1.8m --> replaced by Andersson/Rasmussen ELC. Saves $1m.
- Donskoi ($3.9m) selected by Seattle --> replaced by Newhook ELC. Saves $3m.
- Graves ($2.75m) traded for futures ---> replaced by Timmins (~$1.2m). Saves $1.5m.
- Komarov ($3m / $2m buried) ---> attach a modest pick to him and save $2m (much cheaper to move him with just 1 year remaining on his contract)

That's $16.2m, which leaves $3m extra capspace compared to the $13.2m raises above. And that doesn't even include a potential increase in the cap ceiling due to the ED and new TV deal.

Those changes would allow us to run with the roster below for 2021/22. It's admittedly quite a young roster, but there's A LOT of talent there, and also plenty of veteran leadership sprinkled throughout the lineup.

Quoting: Richard88
Roster for 2021/22:

- Donskoi selected by Seattle in ED.
- Graves traded for futures.

Landeskog ---- Mackinnon ---- Rantanen
Burakovsky ------- Kadri --------- Kaut
Nichuskin ------- Newhook ----- Compher
Bowers --------- Andersson ---- Namestnikov (Rasmussen marinades in the AHL one more year in 2021/22 and then replaces Kadri in 2022 as Newhook bumps up to 2C).
O'Connor

Byram ------ Makar
Girard ------- Johnson
Samberg --- Timmins
Carlson 7D (Wilde slow-cooks in the AHL until Johnson is done).

Grubauer
Francouz
19 jun à 8 h 29
#7
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 4,601
Mentions "j'aime": 1,404
Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
You think Landeskog is going to settle for less than 6 million? Makar less than that as well? If Makar wants term it's going to be Rantanen money, if he doesn't it's going to be 6+ average. Landeskog is likely going to ask for 8 as a starting point and may not budge from that. He'll argue he's the captain and is a 30 goal scorer who has other intangibles.


I agree. In my calculation above I've factored in Makar getting $9m and Landeskog getting $8m. And there's still $3m capspace left to play with.
19 jun à 8 h 35
#8
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 2,378
Mentions "j'aime": 846
No chance jets do that
Dan10900 a aimé ceci.
19 jun à 8 h 43
#9
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 16,993
Mentions "j'aime": 5,126
Quoting: Richard88
I agree. In my calculation above I've factored in Makar getting $9m and Landeskog getting $8m. And there's still $3m capspace left to play with.


I have thought that Sakic is right there with Dubas for cap management skills. Many give Dubas a bad rap because he's up against the cap but his team is stacked and loaded with skill and speed. Sakic is on his way to the same situation but as long as he doesn't waste money by overpaying secondary players he'll be fine. Well done
Richard88 a aimé ceci.
19 jun à 8 h 56
#10
Rejoint: déc 2019
Messages: 2,444
Mentions "j'aime": 1,036
Avs could maybe do 1 short term cap dump for something appealing, but as a team with serious cup considerations and knowing the MacKinnon super friendly contract window is short I would expect the Avs to use every dollar possible to help in that pursuit.
19 jun à 9 h 09
#11
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: avr 2020
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Quoting: Cheddamonkey37
No chance jets do that


They already have Morrissey and Heinola at LHD, so why wouldn't they consider moving one of their other LHD prospects? Maybe Samberg is a bit much, so perhaps Chisholm would be more suitable? Perhaps Colorado adds a little bit, but I don't see why they would given that Winnipeg are getting the more proven player.
19 jun à 9 h 11
#12
Rejoint: jui 2019
Messages: 1,006
Mentions "j'aime": 444
Out of everyteam that would've been my last guest for a cap dump situation, the rich getting richer. I don't like that.

Quoting: Rooney
Samberg could even crack a top 4 role as early as next year.

Should be pretty easy, there's empty seats all accross that defense since that free agency exodus.

Quoting: Richard88
And that doesn't even include a potential increase in the cap ceiling due to the ED and new TV deal

Back to back years where the cap was supposed to go up by a ton and yet nothing, nobody can predict cap from now on not even Bettman.
Richard88 et Rooney a aimé ceci.
19 jun à 9 h 12
#13
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: avr 2020
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
I have thought that Sakic is right there with Dubas for cap management skills. Many give Dubas a bad rap because he's up against the cap but his team is stacked and loaded with skill and speed. Sakic is on his way to the same situation but as long as he doesn't waste money by overpaying secondary players he'll be fine. Well done


Thanks. I agree, on the evidence so far Sakic does seem to be very shrewd with how he manages cap. He's weaponised capspace in consecutive offseasons, first in the Grubauer trade, and then by retaining on Barrie to get Kadri. The way he's structured contracts of Compher and Donskoi to both end in 2023 is good too. And of course the Girard and Rantanen contracts are very good (especially Girard). We'll see if he can continue this going forwards.
19 jun à 9 h 15
#14
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 4,601
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Quoting: Xqb15
Avs could maybe do 1 short term cap dump for something appealing, but as a team with serious cup considerations and knowing the MacKinnon super friendly contract window is short I would expect the Avs to use every dollar possible to help in that pursuit.


Mackinnon's contract is indeed appealing, but there's only so much you can do with the capspace, short of removing players from the current roster. We're already a cup favourite, so unless there are some good 1 year deals in UFA I don't think there's any obvious move for Sakic to make.

Keep in mind that even with 2 capdump trades there is still enough capspace left to allow for a big deadline acquisition (due to cap accrual). In that regard, acquiring picks or prospects could actually be essential currency that we can use going forwards, both to boost the roster on ELC's, but also as valuable capital to use in deadline deals to put the team over the top.
19 jun à 9 h 18
#15
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Rejoint: avr 2020
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Quoting: ColonelX
Out of everyteam that would've been my last guest for a cap dump situation, the rich getting richer. I don't like that.


Should be pretty easy, there's empty seats all accross that defense since that free agency exodus.


Back to back years where the cap was supposed to go up by a ton and yet nothing, nobody can predict cap from now on not even Bettman.


Sakic has weaponised capspace in two consecutive offseasons (1st by acquiring Orpik's buyout to get Grubauer cheaper, and then by retaining on Barrie to get Kadri cheaper). As such I think cap dumps will definitely be something that is on Sakic's radar, especially in an offseason with a flat cap where the price to trade a capdump will be sky-high. That is, assuming that we don't ourselves use all the capspace by making big signings like Hall or Pietrangelo.
19 jun à 9 h 23
#16
Rejoint: mai 2020
Messages: 435
Mentions "j'aime": 113
we take that 3rd and run
19 jun à 9 h 25
#17
Rejoint: jun 2016
Messages: 523
Mentions "j'aime": 102
Quoting: Richard88
They already have Morrissey and Heinola at LHD, so why wouldn't they consider moving one of their other LHD prospects? Maybe Samberg is a bit much, so perhaps Chisholm would be more suitable? Perhaps Colorado adds a little bit, but I don't see why they would given that Winnipeg are getting the more proven player.


They don’t do it because they have a lack of defensive prospects that have a legit shot of making the NHL. Heinola, Samberg, and Chisholm right now are the only 3 that have that potential. And if you’re giving one of them up in better be for better value than Tyson Jost. If one of them is included in a deal for a Strome/Cirelli or other legitimate assets who could be a true 2C on this team or even a top pairing D man right now then you consider it. Otherwise those prospects shouldn’t be touched. Already have enough guys who are bottom 6 centreman. (Lowry, Copp, Roslovic, Harkins, Little if healthy) need a pretty sure thing as opposed to a maybe guy.
Richard88 a aimé ceci.
19 jun à 9 h 29
#18
Rejoint: mai 2018
Messages: 16,993
Mentions "j'aime": 5,126
Quoting: Richard88
Thanks. I agree, on the evidence so far Sakic does seem to be very shrewd with how he manages cap. He's weaponised capspace in consecutive offseasons, first in the Grubauer trade, and then by retaining on Barrie to get Kadri. The way he's structured contracts of Compher and Donskoi to both end in 2023 is good too. And of course the Girard and Rantanen contracts are very good (especially Girard). We'll see if he can continue this going forwards.


That is the key of course
Richard88 a aimé ceci.
19 jun à 9 h 47
#19
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Rejoint: avr 2020
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Quoting: Shesterkin_next_GOAT
we take that 3rd and run

I wasn't really sure what the value of the pick there should be, but you're right, a 3rd is probably too much.

Smith @ $2.25m still has negative value, so probably costs you a 4th or so to move.

Then you add Lias Andersson who's value is difficult to ascertain. But it can't be much, maybe a 2nd or 3rd.

Which makes the combined value of Smith (negative 4th), and Anderson (positive 2nd/3rd) effectively just the price of upgrading from a 4th to a 2nd/3rd.

With that in mind, you're probably right that a 3rd is too much. Maybe a 5th or 6th would be more appropriate.

Would NYR accept the trade below?

Smith ($2m retained)
Andersson

for

COL 2020 5th
19 jun à 9 h 56
#20
Islanders Fan
Rejoint: mai 2016
Messages: 4,551
Mentions "j'aime": 1,263
Need to take back a little more cap for Isles to surrender Wilde IMO. It's not *that* far off but still need a bit more there somehow
19 jun à 10 h 04
#21
Rejoint: jun 2019
Messages: 2,378
Mentions "j'aime": 846
Quoting: Richard88
They already have Morrissey and Heinola at LHD, so why wouldn't they consider moving one of their other LHD prospects? Maybe Samberg is a bit much, so perhaps Chisholm would be more suitable? Perhaps Colorado adds a little bit, but I don't see why they would given that Winnipeg are getting the more proven player.


Not really why get a weaker Lhd group for a 3C? Have copp at 3C I wouldn’t mind having jost but not for samberg I’d be kinda interested if it was Chisholm depending what avs are adding to it
19 jun à 10 h 19
#22
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: avr 2020
Messages: 4,601
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Quoting: joshelkin
Need to take back a little more cap for Isles to surrender Wilde IMO. It's not *that* far off but still need a bit more there somehow


Hmm I don't know about that. Wilde was a 2nd round pick, so a 3rd rounder isn't that far off, though Wilde does have more value as he has progressed well since the draft and is obviously closer to NHL ready.

We could offer a 2nd instead of a 3rd, but then again the difference between Wilde and a 2020 2nd is much smaller than Komarov. I'm not sure it makes sense to trade a 2nd for him unless NYI retain a bit on Komarov and/or send a pick back, but that probably isn't ideal for NYI. How about throwing in another mid-round pick, like a 5th?

Komarov + Wilde for 3rd + 5th

Or something like:

Komarov + Wilde + 4th for 2nd
19 jun à 10 h 26
#23
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Quoting: Cheddamonkey37
Not really why get a weaker Lhd group for a 3C? Have copp at 3C I wouldn’t mind having jost but not for samberg I’d be kinda interested if it was Chisholm depending what avs are adding to it

Thanks for your feedback.

Hmm, if it's Chisholm I'm not sure I want to be adding to Jost. He's still only 22 years old despite having played over 200 NHL games, and could legitimately still break out. Many players take until about that age to even break into the NHL, but he's already proved that he's at least a capable 3rd liner, and has shown flashes of being more, especially in the playoffs as well as after the deadline this year (7 points in 9 games). It would be very risky to trade a young C like Jost to a divisional rival, especially for a prospect who has never played at a level above juniors.

I'm also not sure if Chisholm is the type of LHD we should be going after if we acquire a LHD. With Byram and Girard holding down the top two pairings going forwards we probably need more of a shutdown Dman type on the 3rd pairing. So Samberg makes more sense, even if we have to add a bit to get him.

Alternatively we could trade Jost to a team in the east like Florida or Rangers for a prospect like Gildon, Kolyachonok, or Robertson. That would be far more appealing than helping a division rival, unless the prospect we're getting in return is someone who's too good to pass up.
19 jun à 10 h 26
#24
Rejoint: fév 2017
Messages: 2,082
Mentions "j'aime": 781
A lot of comments...I like it.
as a jets fan I do not like that deal at all. Samberg has top pairing potential, where you say Jost can be a 3C. The jets have soooo many guys that can play 3C (Copp, Lowry, Little, Roslovic, Harkins) they need D who have potential to develop into top pairing guys. I do like Jost and Im sure the jets would have interest, just not for a top prospect
Richard88 a aimé ceci.
19 jun à 10 h 36
#25
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Quoting: masterjuddi
A lot of comments...I like it.
as a jets fan I do not like that deal at all. Samberg has top pairing potential, where you say Jost can be a 3C. The jets have soooo many guys that can play 3C (Copp, Lowry, Little, Roslovic, Harkins) they need D who have potential to develop into top pairing guys. I do like Jost and Im sure the jets would have interest, just not for a top prospect


Thanks for your feedback, interesting thoughts.

I think Jost would be a 2C with the Jets. He has the offensive ability to keep up with guys like Connor/Ehlers/Wheeler/Laine.

The problem with him in Colorado is that he's not good enough to carry offense on his own, and isn't a natural fit next to Kadri/Burakovsky, so he gets shoe-horned on the 3rd line. He's the type of player that needs good players around him to be at his best, but if you give him that he really excels. For example, in college he played with Boeser and was lethal. After the deadline this year when we had some injuries and he got top 6 minutes and PP time he got 7 points in 9 games.

There's still a good player there for sure. I just don't think he's going to reach his potential in Colorado, as we have Kadri at 2C and Compher at 3C who are better at those roles, and also Newhook on the way.

That said, it's understandable that you wouldn't want to trade a guy with top pairing potential for him.

How do you feel about a trade around Chisholm and Jost? With that trade Winnipeg would plug their biggest hole by getting a young 2C/3C and still have Morrissey/Heinola/Samberg as their D moving forward.
 
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