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Compiling moves for centers that make the most sense

Créé par: TanSor
Équipe: 2020-21 Wild du Minnesota
Date de création initiale: 13 juin 2020
Publié: 13 juin 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Transactions
1.
MIN
  1. Cirelli, Anthony [Droits de RFA]
TBL
  1. Choix de 1e ronde en 2021 (MIN)
  2. Choix de 2e ronde en 2021 (MIN)
  3. Choix de 3e ronde en 2021 (MIN)
Détails additionnels:
Offer sheet compensation
2.
MIN
  1. Strome, Dylan [Droits de RFA]
  2. Choix de 3e ronde en 2020 (CHI)
CHI
  1. Brodin, Jonas
Détails additionnels:
Brodin signs an extension.
3.
MIN
  1. Schmaltz, Nick
Détails additionnels:
This would depend completely on how confident Arizona is with Hayton and Dvorak. Probably the most unlikely of the three, but if they think Hayton is ready for a top 9 role then it's possible they move one of their centers and a talented defenseman like Dumba could be enticing.
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2020
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2021
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2022
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
1681 500 000 $55 191 091 $0 $0 $26 308 909 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
7 538 462 $7 538 462 $
AG
NMC
UFA - 5
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2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
C
UFA - 2
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6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
AD, AG
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
3 000 000 $3 000 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
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1 625 000 $1 625 000 $
C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
1 900 000 $1 900 000 $
AG, C, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
2 875 000 $2 875 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
1 487 500 $1 487 500 $
C
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
1 900 000 $1 900 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Coyotes de l'Arizona
5 850 000 $5 850 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 6
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
7 538 462 $7 538 462 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
2 166 667 $2 166 667 $
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
7 575 000 $7 575 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
785 000 $785 000 $
G
UFA - 2
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
2 250 000 $2 250 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
700 000 $700 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1

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13 juin 2020 à 13 h 31
#1
Banni
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Schmaltz definitely won't be available. He's more of a winger anyways, he's terrible when playing centre but he's one of those analytic darlings so Arizona won't be moving him.

Tampa is matching any offer sheet for Cirelli so that won't be done.

If you're offering Brodin with an extension you can get more than Strome and a pick. Strome's nowhere close to what he was supposed to be and doesn't have high value. You could add more in return there and he's the only viable option really outta these 3.
13 juin 2020 à 13 h 33
#2
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Quoting: Ryminister_27
Schmaltz definitely won't be available. He's more of a winger anyways, he's terrible when playing centre but he's one of those analytic darlings so Arizona won't be moving him.

Tampa is matching any offer sheet for Cirelli so that won't be done.

If you're offering Brodin with an extension you can get more than Strome and a pick. Strome's nowhere close to what he was supposed to be and doesn't have high value. You could add more in return there and he's the only viable option really outta these 3.


You sound so sure about Schmaltz, but like I said if they think Hayton is ready for a big role then I think moving a center makes sense.

How the hell can Tampa match an offer sheet when they have $5M in cap space with 15 players signed? Everyone says they can just move a big contract but all of the players that they should move have full NTC's. Saying they'll move one is way easier said than done. If the Wild offered $7M for 6 years there's no way Tampa can match that.

Yeah I think we could get more as well but Blackhawks fans vehemently disagree.
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13 juin 2020 à 13 h 39
#3
Banni
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Quoting: TanSor
You sound so sure about Schmaltz, but like I said if they think Hayton is ready for a big role then I think moving a center makes sense.

How the hell can Tampa match an offer sheet when they have $5M in cap space with 15 players signed? Everyone says they can just move a big contract but all of the players that they should move have full NTC's. Saying they'll move one is way easier said than done. If the Wild offered $7M for 6 years there's no way Tampa can match that.

Yeah I think we could get more as well but Blackhawks fans vehemently disagree.


Like I said, Schmaltz is more of a winger. He's brutal in the faceoff circle and more effective when he can use his speed down the wings. They'll move him to permanent wing when Hayton and Dvorak are ready full time. Plus Schmaltz is on a good deal so they'll be keeping him. I am pretty sure about that.

Just because Tampa has little cap space now, doesn't mean that's how it'll be always. People on here seem to forget that. They'll prioritize who to keep and who to move. A good young 2way centre like Cirelli will likely be high on the keep list. Guys like Johnson, Gourde, Killorn, etc. can easily be moved for decent value to clear cap space by the time next year starts. & remember that teams are allowed to go 10% over the cap in the off-season so they can match any reasonable offersheet and then move cap around after. Only way a team gets him is to either overpay by an offersheet or make a trade with Tampa for him. They won't let him walk to an affordable offersheet
13 juin 2020 à 13 h 44
#4
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Quoting: Ryminister_27
Like I said, Schmaltz is more of a winger. He's brutal in the faceoff circle and more effective when he can use his speed down the wings. They'll move him to permanent wing when Hayton and Dvorak are ready full time. Plus Schmaltz is on a good deal so they'll be keeping him. I am pretty sure about that.

Just because Tampa has little cap space now, doesn't mean that's how it'll be always. People on here seem to forget that. They'll prioritize who to keep and who to move. A good young 2way centre like Cirelli will likely be high on the keep list. Guys like Johnson, Gourde, Killorn, etc. can easily be moved for decent value to clear cap space by the time next year starts. & remember that teams are allowed to go 10% over the cap in the off-season so they can match any reasonable offersheet and then move cap around after. Only way a team gets him is to either overpay by an offersheet or make a trade with Tampa for him. They won't let him walk to an affordable offersheet


You didn't read what I said, moving those guys with full NTC's will be a lot easier said than done. They have to waive their clause in order to be traded. The cap will most likely not go up, so why would any team want to add one of those big contracts without giving up any cap? So Tampa would have to find a team that the player would be willing to waive for and that same team would have to be willing to take on a pretty big contract. I'd imagine that's an extremely short list, if there's even a list at all. I agree that Tampa will absolutely prioritize keeping him, but if a team offers a $7M x 6 year contract that I'd happily sign him to, there's no way they can make that work.

As for Schmaltz, he's bad on the dot but I like him at center. He can make more plays there which is what the Wild need.
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13 juin 2020 à 13 h 44
#5
Kyle from Chicago
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Quoting: TanSor
You sound so sure about Schmaltz, but like I said if they think Hayton is ready for a big role then I think moving a center makes sense.

How the hell can Tampa match an offer sheet when they have $5M in cap space with 15 players signed? Everyone says they can just move a big contract but all of the players that they should move have full NTC's. Saying they'll move one is way easier said than done. If the Wild offered $7M for 6 years there's no way Tampa can match that.

Yeah I think we could get more as well but Blackhawks fans vehemently disagree.


The guy you are responding to is a leafs troll (and on my ignored list) I wouldn’t put to much stock into what he says.
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13 juin 2020 à 13 h 46
#6
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
The guy you are responding to is a leafs troll (and on my ignored list) I wouldn’t put to much stock into what he says.


How do you feel about the Strome deal? Too much for the Hawks?
13 juin 2020 à 13 h 48
#7
Banni
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Quoting: TanSor
You didn't read what I said, moving those guys with full NTC's will be a lot easier said than done. They have to waive their clause in order to be traded. The cap will most likely not go up, so why would any team want to add one of those big contracts without giving up any cap? So Tampa would have to find a team that the player would be willing to waive for and that same team would have to be willing to take on a pretty big contract. I'd imagine that's an extremely short list, if there's even a list at all. I agree that Tampa will absolutely prioritize keeping him, but if a team offers a $7M x 6 year contract that I'd happily sign him to, there's no way they can make that work.

As for Schmaltz, he's bad on the dot but I like him at center. He can make more plays there which is what the Wild need.


Harder yes, still not impossible. Just means taking a lesser return. And Killorn's deal turns into a modified NTC this off-season so it'll be a lot easier to move his contract. It's really not as bad as people seem to think
13 juin 2020 à 13 h 50
#8
Banni
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
The guy you are responding to is a leafs troll (and on my ignored list) I wouldn’t put to much stock into what he says.


... says the kid that goes out of his way to insult someone and even on something that no one's mentioned the Leafs. LOL. Nothing I said was un-factual and you can look into it for yourself.

Don't like it, then don't even mention me. LOL
13 juin 2020 à 13 h 52
#9
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Quoting: Ryminister_27
Harder yes, still not impossible. Just means taking a lesser return. And Killorn's deal turns into a modified NTC this off-season so it'll be a lot easier to move his contract. It's really not as bad as people seem to think


OK let me simplify it for you. Say they trade Killorn (the best of their $5M players IMO). That gives them $10M in space with 15 contracts. If the Wild offer Sheet Cirelli $7M for 6 years that I've mentioned now 3 times that I'd happily sign him to, they'd have $3M in cap space to re-sign Sergachev and Cernak, plus fill 4 more roster spots. How do you propose they do that if none of their players waive?
13 juin 2020 à 13 h 58
#10
exo2769
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Modifié 13 juin 2020 à 15 h 28
As a Hawks fan. I tend to agree with @Ryminister_27 that Schmaltz is a winger. It's one of the reasons he was sent to AZ...at the time the Hawks needed a #2C pretty badly. Then they got the #3OA pick and drafted Dach so boy oh boy things have changed.

I hear you're point on Hawks fans vehemently disagree on Strome's value. This push back comes from literally one thing. Elliott Friedmann sent out a Tweet and spread the rumor that Bowman's shopping D Strome and in his opinion the cost was not prohibitive. That's literally it. Nothing more...a tweet. Then this site went crazy with trades which I fully understand.

The reason Hawks fans push back is because he had a down year last year...NO arguments from me. That down year was due to (2) factors...A.) He got injured for ~10 games and B.) when he came back he played on the wing for some ungodly stupid reason. That dropped him from a .88ppg to a .66ppg. So here's the beef us Hawks fans have. We can admit Strome had a down year, BUT when we see Cirelli's career year of .65ppg and Schmaltz's career year of .64 ppg....it's a tough pill to take. It's using our admission of a down year to somehow say he's worse that guys who's career years are (technically) worse than his down year despite clearly understandable reasons. He's NOT a winger!

With that said, I don't want to ignore Cirelli's defensive abilities. I do think that makes Cirelli more valuable, BUT if anyone's thinking....well Strome plays with Kane....... Ok Fine, Cirelli played with Stamkos and Kuch a whole lot too.

take a look at the charts below. Even in Strome's down year...the metrics support his play.
https://public.tableau.com/profile/bill.comeau#!/vizhome/SKATR2019-2020/SKATR
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13 juin 2020 à 14 h 1
#11
Banni
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Quoting: TanSor
OK let me simplify it for you. Say they trade Killorn (the best of their $5M players IMO). That gives them $10M in space with 15 contracts. If the Wild offer Sheet Cirelli $7M for 6 years that I've mentioned now 3 times that I'd happily sign him to, they'd have $3M in cap space to re-sign Sergachev and Cernak, plus fill 4 more roster spots. How do you propose they do that if none of their players waive?


I can read.. and as I've said multiple times.. they can move more contracts. It's really not rocket science. Move Killorn, could likely convince Gourde to waive to go to his hometown of Montreal and they need scoring, (there's another $5M of space), could likely easily convince Coburn to waive just by saying he wouldn't get any ice time (there's another $1.7M of space) .. so with just those 3 deals moved they free up $12M of cap. & there's also no guarantee Cirelli would even sign in Minnesota. Why would he? A team on the downward trend that's not likely to contend for awhile, versus signing for a bit less to stay in Tampa in the sun and playoff for a legit contender year after year? Tampa's players have bought it. Stamkos signed cheap. Kucherov did. Point did. Hedman did. There's plenty of reason to believe that Cirelle would too to stay put and help the team win. Then they fill the rest of their roster out with ELC's like they've been doing. Cal Foote could make the jump. Mitchell Stephens and Carter Verhaeghe are good, cheap depth options. They have Boris Katchouk, Taylor Raddysh, Matthew Joseph (who's played some NHL games) all in the minors on cheap deals that can make the jump and fill bottom 6 roles. There's plenty of answers that involve not losing Cirelli.

Is that simple enough for you?
13 juin 2020 à 14 h 3
#12
Banni
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Quoting: exo2769
As a Hawks fan. I tend to agree with @Ryminister_27 that Schmaltz is a winger. It's one of the reasons he was sent to AZ...at the time the Hawks needed a #2C pretty badly. Then they got the #3OA pick and drafted Dach so boy oh boy things have changed.

I hear you're point on Hawks fans vehemently disagree on Strome's value. This push back comes from literally one thing. Elliott Friedmann sent out a Tweet and spread the rumor that Bowman's shopping D Strome and in his opinion the cost was not prohibitive. That's literally it. Nothing more...a tweet. Then this site went crazy with trades which I fully understand.

The reason Hawks fans push back is because he had a down year last year...NO arguments from me. That down year was due to (2) factors...A.) He got injured for ~10 games and B.) when he came back he played on the wing for some ungodly stupid reason. That dropped him from a .88ppg to a .66ppg. So here's the beef us Hawks fans have. We can admit Strome had a down year, BUT when we see Cirelli's career year of .65ppg and Schmaltz's career year of .64 ppg....it's a touch pill to take. It's using our admission of a down year to somehow say he's worse that guys who's career years are worse than his down year despite clearly understandable reasons. He's NOT a winger!

With that said, I don't want to ignore Cirelli's defensive abilities. I do think that make Cirelli more valuable, BUT if anyone's thinking....well Strome plays with Kane....... Ok Fine, Cirelli played with Stamkos and Kuch a whole lot too.

take a look at the charts below. Even in Strome's down year...the metrics support his play.
https://public.tableau.com/profile/bill.comeau#!/vizhome/SKATR2019-2020/SKATR



exactly what I was talking about.

But according to @stan_bowman I'm just a "Leafs troll" and he thinks I know nothing about any other team because we disagree so much. LOL .. I work in hockey and know what I'm talking about. But thanks for the reassurance.
13 juin 2020 à 14 h 6
#13
exo2769
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Quoting: Ryminister_27
exactly what I was talking about.

But according to @stan_bowman I'm just a "Leafs troll" and he thinks I know nothing about any other team because we disagree so much. LOL .. I work in hockey and know what I'm talking about. But thanks for the reassurance.


We'll do battle on a different issue, I'm sure! Cheers!
13 juin 2020 à 14 h 8
#14
Banni
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Quoting: exo2769
We'll do battle on a different issue, I'm sure! Cheers!


I don't shy away from disagreements, they help you learn. But that user thinks that just because someone disagrees with them, that the other user knows nothing and is just a troll. It's pretty comical. I'm sure we'll debate, I'm always down to talk and learn more hockey. Cheers, stay safe!
13 juin 2020 à 14 h 9
#15
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Quoting: Ryminister_27
I can read.. and as I've said multiple times.. they can move more contracts. It's really not rocket science. Move Killorn, could likely convince Gourde to waive to go to his hometown of Montreal and they need scoring, (there's another $5M of space), could likely easily convince Coburn to waive just by saying he wouldn't get any ice time (there's another $1.7M of space) .. so with just those 3 deals moved they free up $12M of cap. & there's also no guarantee Cirelli would even sign in Minnesota. Why would he? A team on the downward trend that's not likely to contend for awhile, versus signing for a bit less to stay in Tampa in the sun and playoff for a legit contender year after year? Tampa's players have bought it. Stamkos signed cheap. Kucherov did. Point did. Hedman did. There's plenty of reason to believe that Cirelle would too to stay put and help the team win. Then they fill the rest of their roster out with ELC's like they've been doing. Cal Foote could make the jump. Mitchell Stephens and Carter Verhaeghe are good, cheap depth options. They have Boris Katchouk, Taylor Raddysh, Matthew Joseph (who's played some NHL games) all in the minors on cheap deals that can make the jump and fill bottom 6 roles. There's plenty of answers that involve not losing Cirelli.

Is that simple enough for you?


Agree to disagree, then!
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13 juin 2020 à 14 h 42
#16
Once a Kings Fan Too
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
The guy you are responding to is a leafs troll (and on my ignored list) I wouldn’t put to much stock into what he says.


Quoting: TanSor
You didn't read what I said, moving those guys with full NTC's will be a lot easier said than done. They have to waive their clause in order to be traded. The cap will most likely not go up, so why would any team want to add one of those big contracts without giving up any cap? So Tampa would have to find a team that the player would be willing to waive for and that same team would have to be willing to take on a pretty big contract. I'd imagine that's an extremely short list, if there's even a list at all. I agree that Tampa will absolutely prioritize keeping him, but if a team offers a $7M x 6 year contract that I'd happily sign him to, there's no way they can make that work.

As for Schmaltz, he's bad on the dot but I like him at center. He can make more plays there which is what the Wild need.


The guy you're responding to is both intellectually dishonest and impervious to logic, as exemplified by his continual "wave the magic wand" and PRESTO! "Guys like Johnson, Gourde, Killorn, etc. can easily be moved for decent value to clear cap space." !! This whole theory (which is not unique to him, by the way) reminds me of the Steve Martin joke: "I can show you how to make a billion dollars and never pay a penny of taxes! Yes, NEVER pay a penny in taxes!! First, getabilliondollarsThen, . . . "
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13 juin 2020 à 15 h 5
#17
Hockey Fan13
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I'm a fan of the Strome to the Wild. I don't want to lose Brodin to get him, but I get the value there, hoping Billy comes up with another option. Even if Strome can't drive a line, put him next to Fiala or Kaprizov or even Donato and I think the line can score goals.
Logic does tell me the Lightning are screwed if they have to start matching offersheets, but they are always dicey. Schmaltz isn't worth Dumba or Brodin IMO. He is better offensively than JEE but overall a weaker center than JEE I mean if we went that route we could just move Kunin to center permanently and look for a new wing, which I worry is the plan anyway.
Just my thoughts on these moves. I originally was on the Strome bus then I shifted to the Cirelli wagon I'm kinda sliding back to the Strome side again and I'd say wherever Billy finds a better deal is the right direction to go.
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13 juin 2020 à 15 h 11
#18
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Quoting: Paul13
I'm a fan of the Strome to the Wild. I don't want to lose Brodin to get him, but I get the value there, hoping Billy comes up with another option. Even if Strome can't drive a line, put him next to Fiala or Kaprizov or even Donato and I think the line can score goals.
Logic does tell me the Lightning are screwed if they have to start matching offersheets, but they are always dicey. Schmaltz isn't worth Dumba or Brodin IMO. He is better offensively than JEE but overall a weaker center than JEE I mean if we went that route we could just move Kunin to center permanently and look for a new wing, which I worry is the plan anyway.
Just my thoughts on these moves. I originally was on the Strome bus then I shifted to the Cirelli wagon I'm kinda sliding back to the Strome side again and I'd say wherever Billy finds a better deal is the right direction to go.


I think Strome and Cirelli are our best options. I like Cirelli more since I'm a sucker for good skaters, but I like the offense that Strome brings a lot. He's just not a good skater and I think with a speedster like Fiala, someone like Cirelli might fit better.
13 juin 2020 à 15 h 15
#19
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Quoting: TanSor
I think Strome and Cirelli are our best options. I like Cirelli more since I'm a sucker for good skaters, but I like the offense that Strome brings a lot. He's just not a good skater and I think with a speedster like Fiala, someone like Cirelli might fit better.


I get the logic. I'm really good with either.
I'm really hoping the Shark fans are wrong and they do some sort of retool. They don't have a lot of moveable contract with any value so I really want to steal Hertl.
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13 juin 2020 à 16 h 33
#20
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Hawks accept. Seems like a good deal for both sides to me.
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13 juin 2020 à 16 h 35
#21
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Quoting: Stan_Bowman
The guy you are responding to is a leafs troll (and on my ignored list) I wouldn’t put to much stock into what he says.


Mine too! LOL
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13 juin 2020 à 16 h 38
#22
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Quoting: exo2769
As a Hawks fan. I tend to agree with @Ryminister_27 that Schmaltz is a winger. It's one of the reasons he was sent to AZ...at the time the Hawks needed a #2C pretty badly. Then they got the #3OA pick and drafted Dach so boy oh boy things have changed.

I hear you're point on Hawks fans vehemently disagree on Strome's value. This push back comes from literally one thing. Elliott Friedmann sent out a Tweet and spread the rumor that Bowman's shopping D Strome and in his opinion the cost was not prohibitive. That's literally it. Nothing more...a tweet. Then this site went crazy with trades which I fully understand.

The reason Hawks fans push back is because he had a down year last year...NO arguments from me. That down year was due to (2) factors...A.) He got injured for ~10 games and B.) when he came back he played on the wing for some ungodly stupid reason. That dropped him from a .88ppg to a .66ppg. So here's the beef us Hawks fans have. We can admit Strome had a down year, BUT when we see Cirelli's career year of .65ppg and Schmaltz's career year of .64 ppg....it's a tough pill to take. It's using our admission of a down year to somehow say he's worse that guys who's career years are (technically) worse than his down year despite clearly understandable reasons. He's NOT a winger!

With that said, I don't want to ignore Cirelli's defensive abilities. I do think that makes Cirelli more valuable, BUT if anyone's thinking....well Strome plays with Kane....... Ok Fine, Cirelli played with Stamkos and Kuch a whole lot too.

take a look at the charts below. Even in Strome's down year...the metrics support his play.
https://public.tableau.com/profile/bill.comeau#!/vizhome/SKATR2019-2020/SKATR


Friedman made mention on a podcast with he Buffalo beat writer and Friedman a week later went on a Hawks podcast to clear the air saying he made a joke as he knew his friend wanted Strome in Buffalo and had him on his fantasy league team...Friedman said I had no idea this would spin into the trade rumor mill and then said, "there are no rumors about chicago trading strome". Of course, this website went crazy over it.
13 juin 2020 à 16 h 45
#23
Ok Boomer
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Hoenstly, I would consider moving Domi if the right player is available. Maybe if Brodin is available I would give up Domi and a 3rd
14 juin 2020 à 3 h 12
#24
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Yeah Cirelli is the least likely of Tampa’s rfas that would even consider an OS. He especially turns one down for any non contender, which the Wild qualify as. Most on here do see Tampa as guaranteed to lose these rfas, when the team has faced comparable situations for the last 5 years. The Tampa fans have heard the same rhetoric each off-season as well. As was mentioned before, Tampa has players they can move rather easily(Killorn for good value, Paquette for less) and contrary to popular belief on here, getting 1 guy to waive an ntc(even in Tampa) is far more realistic of a scenario than a player signing an OS. Most Lightning fans I’ve talked with realize Cernak may have to be traded if there’s just no money left, but that Serg and Cirelli are going nowhere. Sure, they could be the first Tampa rfas to buck the organization’s contract structure if all they care about is making the most right now, or they could take less on a bridge now knowing they’ll keep one of the strongest teams in the league together for a few more runs. Neither seems to be the former kind of player on the surface, and both have been in Tampa long enough to understand how the rfa contracts work here. I’d say 95% chance both Serg and Cirelli follow suit and take the team friendly 2 or 3 year bridge, knowing Tampa takes care of their guys after on a long term deal.
 
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